Speculation: Nylander Thread VI - Return of the Agent (ALL Nylander Discussion HERE)

[StuckOutHere]

If there were only magic beans in that lopsided proposal, then you'd have a point, but it was Pesce, Foegele AND a 1st.

A young, cost controlled top 3/4 D: Not a magic bean
A young, rookie who is already on the 2nd line and looking promising: A bean that is starting to sprout
A 1st: Magic bean

It was and is a bad proposal no matter how you look at it.

We agree on something at least.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

We agree on something at least.

Yep, tilted too far in the Leafs favor. We agree!

 

[Fogelhund]

New
NHL Trade Rumors October 10, 2018 - www.nhltraderumor.com
TSN Radio: Pierre LeBrun was on Toronto radio and believes no team will offer sheet William Nylander. LeBrun believes a trade could be made with a non playoff team this year. GM’s have called the Toronto Maple Leafs about Nylander and it is believed the Carolina Hurricanes and Anaheim Ducks have inquired about Nylander. The Hurricanes and Ducks have the assets and cap space to make a trade.
The concern for other teams is, what is the number they can sign Nylander for. It is believed no team will offer Nylander a $8.5 million/year contract.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

New
NHL Trade Rumors October 10, 2018 - www.nhltraderumor.com
TSN Radio: Pierre LeBrun was on Toronto radio and believes no team will offer sheet William Nylander. LeBrun believes a trade could be made with a non playoff team this year. GM’s have called the Toronto Maple Leafs about Nylander and it is believed the Carolina Hurricanes and Anaheim Ducks have inquired about Nylander. The Hurricanes and Ducks have the assets and cap space to make a trade.
The concern for other teams is, what is the number they can sign Nylander for. It is believed no team will offer Nylander a $8.5 million/year contract.

I can't see an offer sheet. In fact, as I've said for a few weeks, I don't see Nylander being traded at all. His agent used the same playbook with Gaudreau. Will be surprised if Nylander isn't signed soon as his agent won't let him miss too many paychecks.

 

[StuckOutHere]

Yep, tilted too far in the Leafs favor. We agree!

Definitely. Nylander for Pesce strikes me as something that could be construed as fair as a one-for-one. The beans break the deal.

 

[shortfuze]

Back up Habs fans next time Price has "negative value" then?

I actually do. Price is an amazing goalie. Big difference between negative value and over paid.

 

[member 157595]

Yep, tilted too far in the Leafs favor. We agree!

I'm a Leafs fan and that hypothetical offer is definitely in our favor.

New
NHL Trade Rumors October 10, 2018 - www.nhltraderumor.com
TSN Radio: Pierre LeBrun was on Toronto radio and believes no team will offer sheet William Nylander. LeBrun believes a trade could be made with a non playoff team this year. GM’s have called the Toronto Maple Leafs about Nylander and it is believed the Carolina Hurricanes and Anaheim Ducks have inquired about Nylander. The Hurricanes and Ducks have the assets and cap space to make a trade.
The concern for other teams is, what is the number they can sign Nylander for. It is believed no team will offer Nylander a $8.5 million/year contract.

No one is going to give us much for Nylander without having an idea of what it would take to sign him. I highly, highly doubt any team in the NHL would offer $8.5M/year for William Nylander, that's positively absurd. I have to imagine that Nylander and Gross know this already.

Carolina and Anaheim both have the assets, but there's a difference between assets and available assets. I wonder who they've offered?

 

[Soundwave]

Leafs cap structure is going to be a challenge, even if they can get Nylander to cave, and I suspect they will have to give a bit even on him, I think Matthews is gonna get $12 per and Marner is gonna be in the $8.5 range.

I think they would have been better off signing Matthews and Marner last summer.

 

[member 157595]

Leafs cap structure is going to be a challenge, even if they can get Nylander to cave, and I suspect they will have to give a bit even on him, I think Matthews is gonna get $12 per and Marner is gonna be in the $8.5 range.

I think they would have been better off signing Matthews and Marner last summer.

There's no question it's going to be a challenge and we'll be losing someone or something we'd like to keep. I'm just grateful that we have this kind of cap problem instead of a Clarktard/Phaneuf/etc cap room problem.

EDIT: Also, what makes you think Matthews and Marner wanted to sign last summer? We don't know that.

 

[Seanaconda]

Leafs cap structure is going to be a challenge, even if they can get Nylander to cave, and I suspect they will have to give a bit even on him, I think Matthews is gonna get $12 per and Marner is gonna be in the $8.5 range.

I think they would have been better off signing Matthews and Marner last summer.

I doubt either Matthews or marner wanted to sign last summer unless the leafs were already offering above market deals

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Definitely. Nylander for Pesce strikes me as something that could be construed as fair as a one-for-one. The beans break the deal.

I didn't see Jake Bean anywhere in the proposal.

Seriously though, as a fan of both teams (Canes 1st, Leafs 2nd), I do think Nylander has more value than Pesce, just not that much. Of course, a lot of it depends on his contract.

Without digging through all the thread/threads, is there credible information out there on his asking price?

 

[Soundwave]

I doubt either Matthews or marner wanted to sign last summer unless the leafs were already offering above market deals

Even so the number they would have signed at last summer quite well could be lower than what they're asking for next summer.

 

[Exit Dose]

New
NHL Trade Rumors October 10, 2018 - www.nhltraderumor.com
TSN Radio: Pierre LeBrun was on Toronto radio and believes no team will offer sheet William Nylander. LeBrun believes a trade could be made with a non playoff team this year. GM’s have called the Toronto Maple Leafs about Nylander and it is believed the Carolina Hurricanes and Anaheim Ducks have inquired about Nylander. The Hurricanes and Ducks have the assets and cap space to make a trade.
The concern for other teams is, what is the number they can sign Nylander for. It is believed no team will offer Nylander a $8.5 million/year contract.

While I believe we've made an inquiry, I'm skeptical of LeBrun's take in the sentence that follows.

 

[StuckOutHere]

I'm a Leafs fan and that hypothetical offer is definitely in our favor.



No one is going to give us much for Nylander without having an idea of what it would take to sign him. I highly, highly doubt any team in the NHL would offer $8.5M/year for William Nylander, that's positively absurd. I have to imagine that Nylander and Gross know this already.

Carolina and Anaheim both have the assets, but there's a difference between assets and available assets. I wonder who they've offered?

I imagine no team completes the deal without permission from the Leafs to speak to the agent.

 

[member 157595]

I didn't see Jake Bean anywhere in the proposal.

Seriously though, as a fan of both teams (Canes 1st, Leafs 2nd), I do think Nylander has more value than Pesce, just not that much. Of course, a lot of it depends on his contract.

Without digging through all the thread/threads, is there credible information out there on his asking price?

I doubt it. Dubas has never said publicly that he's even considered trading Nylander, which is exactly what he should be saying.

I'm definitely willing to bet that a guy like Pesce would be high on the list of attainable trade targets. Pesce + futures (obviously not the aforementioned deal) would be something I personally would be extremely interested in. Obviously, if Dubas is demanding unavailable guys like Slavin a trade won't get done.

 

[613Leafer]

Teams with more than 7M in capspace that could theoretically offersheet Nylander:

• Carolina
• New Jersey
• Colorado
• NYI
• Vancouver
• Anaheim
• Philly
• Nashville
• Arizona
• Ottawa

The four bolded teams are the only ones whose 1st/2nd/3rd round picks for 2019 aren't part of any transactions (or conditional parts to a transaction), so are the only ones that actually could offersheet him. 3/4 have missed the playoffs for at least the last three seasons, and the one team that made the playoffs last season (Colorado) is considered a bubble team that missed the previous three seasons. All of them would be at significant risk of giving up a lottery pick in an offersheet for Nylander.

On top of that, if you offersheet Nylander, you have to by definition overpay to acquire the player. Nylander's not going to sign an offersheet for 6.5M, because he can already get that from the Leafs by the sounds of it. It would probably take at minimum 7.25M (pure speculation on my part), but regardless it would have to be decently above what the Leafs are offering and what they're willing to match.

If you overpay Nylander on an offersheet, how does that affect upcoming negotiations for these teams own RFAs? What do Aho, Teravainen, Boeser, Rantanen, etc get on longterm contracts if you pay Nylander ~7.25M+?

Then on top of that, any contracts over 5 years in length have the total dollar amount divided by 5 years to determine the offersheet compensation, not by the actual years of the contract. So a 7.5M average salary X 6 year contract for example is actually treated as a 9M caphit for offersheet compensation purposes, and would thus require giving up TWO 1sts + 2nd + 3rd. So really, any team offersheeting him would only be willing to do it on a 5 year contract, which reduces the value of Nylander to that team.

I don't think an offersheet is that big of a risk at the moment. There's a reason none have been signed since 2013, and only one has been successfully used to acquire a player in the last 20 years.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I didn't see Jake Bean anywhere in the proposal.

Seriously though, as a fan of both teams (Canes 1st, Leafs 2nd), I do think Nylander has more value than Pesce, just not that much. Of course, a lot of it depends on his contract.

Without digging through all the thread/threads, is there credible information out there on his asking price?

We can most likely it isn't going to be futures, the obvious need is a RHD similar in age to Nylander.
Nylander+Sparks for Pesce+McBackup lol

 

[Seanaconda]

Even so the number they would have signed at last summer quite well could be lower than what they're asking for next summer.

True but that's probably why they would both want to wait to re - sign with the cap always rising and matthews coming off an injured season and marner playing out of his mind the second half and getting tavares .

 

[SI90]

New to the thread. Is it known what Nylander is looking for ? And is it known what TOR is offering? Thank you.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Leafs cap structure is going to be a challenge, even if they can get Nylander to cave, and I suspect they will have to give a bit even on him, I think Matthews is gonna get $12 per and Marner is gonna be in the $8.5 range.

I think they would have been better off signing Matthews and Marner last summer.

So? This is what people don't get. They will sign all of these guys. A team with

Matthews
Tavares
Marner
Nylander
Kadri
Rielly


Will always be a playoff team. They have tons of cheap depth coming up through the system right now. Guys like Ennis can be signed every year for pennies and are good 4th liners so it's not like they have to break the bank for these kids.

Most important thing is to make sure they get another top pairing D locked down long term, which they will be able to do. Dermott, Liljegren, and Sandin will provide some young top 4 D over the next few years. Guys like Hyman are big pieces but don't put up the points so he will not be expensive to re-sign.

Will it be simple? Of course not. However in a few years they will likely have 30 million to cover the missing spots

XXX- Matthews - Nylander
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
XXX - Kadri - XXX
XXX -XXX -XXX

Rielly - XXX
Dermott - Liljegren
Sandin - XXX

Andersen
XXXX

That is assuming EVERYONE has to be let go for cap reasons, and they don't get Kapanen, Johnsson, etc locked in to a Hyman contract.

 

[member 157595]

New to the thread. Is it known what Nylander is looking for ? And is it known what TOR is offering? Thank you.

No and no. Rumors on both sides. The rumor is that Nylander is seeking $8M/year; I don't buy it because he's not probably getting that from anyone and DEFINITELY not getting that from us.

 

[supsens]

He's worth 6 or 6+ over 7, not over 2-3. RFA averages are not actually representative of a linear worth.
See contracts to Reinhart. S and Kucherov. N

Arbatration awards what players are worth. Value is value. The RFA thing does not mean your worth less. UFA's can find teams to pay an extra million or two, but RFA's still have there value. Thats why Toronto just gave 11 to a guy whos compareables just signed for 9.5

 

[DanM]

No and no. Rumors on both sides. The rumor is that Nylander is seeking $8M/year; I don't buy it because he's not probably getting that from anyone and DEFINITELY not getting that from us.

If Nylander wants 8+ right now, he may as well go play overseas lol nobody will be giving him that yet.

I have a hard time believing he is looking for that, I mean it's so absurd right now at this point in his career.

 

[Ulysses31]

with leafs crazy rodeo scoring, could see 11mil minimum for matthews and 8 mil minimum for marner. As a leafs fan I didnt want to trade willy nilly but way its looking now if he could be moved for a decent RHD i think it would be good move.

 

[powerstuck]

I didn't see Jake Bean anywhere in the proposal.

Seriously though, as a fan of both teams (Canes 1st, Leafs 2nd), I do think Nylander has more value than Pesce, just not that much. Of course, a lot of it depends on his contract.

Without digging through all the thread/threads, is there credible information out there on his asking price?

Nothing official from any credible source or even both parties. But rumors are ask from Nylander and his agent (see agent history Lewis Gross) are asking north of 8m. The rumor also says the ask is high on purpose in hope of middle ground being reached at a higher point (read closer to 7+ instead of under 7M aav).

Team's obvious plan is to sign as low as possible to a) make room for Matthews/Marner and b) if they give too much to Nylander, the Matthews/Marners will want the same type of ''overpayment''.