Line Combos: Nylander > Kadri at Center

[kb]

Kadri will 100% bring back a top 4 dman, unlikely under 25 with a ton of term but a top 4 dman

And this is what the Leafs may want to explore. Canes fans would do Pesce for Kadri straight up or with a small add. Move Nylander around as needed. #3C at the outset, but can be reunited with Nylander if another viable #3c comes along. If not, still 3 elite C's.

An underappreciated aspect of the Lindholm trade is that Petan had predominantly been a centre until hitting the NHL.

 

[Walshy7]

And this is what the Leafs may want to explore. Canes fans would do Pesce for Kadri straight up or with a small add. Move Nylander around as needed. #3C at the outset, but can be reunited with Nylander if another viable #3c comes along. If not, still 3 elite C's.

An underappreciated aspect of the Lindholm trade is that Petan had predominantly been a centre until hitting the NHL.

I don't think petan plays C while we have babs as coach. Babs gets a real hard on for size especially at the C position. I do think Petan could potentially become a 3LW for us which would be great with our shallow LW pool

 

[diceman934]

Nylander is cleary more skilled and the better skater. He has shown that he can carry the puck through the neutral zone and it seems that teams give him a ton of space when he is doing so. What if we give him one or two wingers that compliment him and do the grinding ? Backstrom is a great C. Honest question, does he do the things Nylander does not ? We can go a long way if our third line is more dangerous with Nylander at C.

We do not need a sheltered 3rd line as we have now. With Kadri the line was not sheltered at all and now it is with Marleau taking on a lot of the defensive zone responsibilities. Skill is great but it must be effective and Nylander is more effective as a winger without the down low responsibilities.

 

[kb]

Marleau is not taking anyone's responsibilities. LOL

 

[Trapper]

Nylander is cleary more skilled and the better skater. He has shown that he can carry the puck through the neutral zone and it seems that teams give him a ton of space when he is doing so. What if we give him one or two wingers that compliment him and do the grinding ? Backstrom is a great C. Honest question, does he do the things Nylander does not ? We can go a long way if our third line is more dangerous with Nylander at C.

We are getting to the point that
A) our top 4 D needs to be addressed and
B) decisions are coming concerning who to keep from Kadri/Johnsson/Kapanen

I can draft you a plethora of wingers every year to rotate through this team.

If you can get Johnsson/Kappy cheaper than Naz, you find a good RHD for Kadri.

We need at a solid top 4 D combo (Rielly/Partner, Muzzin/Zaitsev) with the kids Dermott/Sandin/Lily working in the bottom 2. Then if Muzzin is UFA, Dermott moves up, new kid on 3rd pair. Repeat.

Pairs down the lineup:
Matthews/Mango
Tavares/Marner
Nylander/Kappy
Goat/Moore

and recycle around.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We do not need a sheltered 3rd line as we have now. With Kadri the line was not sheltered at all and now it is with Marleau taking on a lot of the defensive zone responsibilities. Skill is great but it must be effective and Nylander is more effective as a winger without the down low responsibilities.

I agree, it seems like people are really getting carried away here. Nylander's had a few good games and all of a sudden, people think he's Crosby. We're really well set up for the next few years as it is now, Kadri's really good as a 3rd line centre playing with whoever they put on his wing and it seems clear that Nylander is better off doing anything other than taking on the defensive responsibilities of the centre in our zone. You can put Kadri up against any centre in the league and not worry too much about it, you sure as hell can't say the same about Nylander.

Kadri at centre and Nylander as a top 6 forward, this makes sense and it works. Why fix something that isn't broke?

 

[kb]

I don't think petan plays C while we have babs as coach. Babs gets a real hard on for size especially at the C position. I do think Petan could potentially become a 3LW for us which would be great with our shallow LW pool

Agreed. But then again, a couple of early playoff exits can change the coaching situation in a hurry. Jets fans were saying Maurice is stuck in the "top-6/bottom-6 " mentality, and preferred bit grinders in the bottom 6, so he never really got a chance because the top-6 was set.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Mango

 

[Trapper]

I agree, it seems like people are really getting carried away here. Nylander's had a few good games and all of a sudden, people think he's Crosby. We're really well set up for the next few years as it is now, Kadri's really good as a 3rd line centre playing with whoever they put on his wing and it seems clear that Nylander is better off doing anything other than taking on the defensive responsibilities of the centre in our zone. You can put Kadri up against any centre in the league and not worry too much about it, you sure as hell can't say the same about Nylander.

Kadri at centre and Nylander as a top 6 forward, this makes sense and it works. Why fix something that isn't broke?

Babcock has left Willy at C so far game after game. That’s as promising as anyone jumping the gun.

From the eye test alone, Nylander is a better C IMO. Will he have bad games? Of course. He’s much better in the middle IMO as he’s not the up and down winger type. He’s not going to (usually) drive the net on most plays. He’s going to control. Wingers can dump and chase. The best place for the puck is on his stick.

Time will tell of course. It’s still not going to stop the decision collision course coming concerning you can’t keep all of Kadri,Johnsson,Kapanen,etc. It’s coming.

 

[Pookie]

We do not need a sheltered 3rd line as we have now. With Kadri the line was not sheltered at all and now it is with Marleau taking on a lot of the defensive zone responsibilities. Skill is great but it must be effective and Nylander is more effective as a winger without the down low responsibilities.

Huh?

Kadri's 3rd line wasn't sheltered?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Babcock has left Willy at C so far game after game. That’s as promising as anyone jumping the gun.

From the eye test alone, Nylander is a better C IMO. Will he have bad games? Of course. He’s much better in the middle IMO as he’s not the up and down winger type. He’s not going to (usually) drive the net on most plays. He’s going to control. Wingers can dump and chase. The best place for the puck is on his stick.

Time will tell of course. It’s still not going to stop the decision collision course coming concerning you can’t keep all of Kadri,Johnsson,Kapanen,etc. It’s coming.

Nylanders only been at centre for a couple of games. It may turn out that he's better at centre than on the wing but it may also be more important that he plays in the top 6 as opposed to the 3rd line.

Hopefully Marleau is gone next year and we can keep everyone, if not then something will have to give somewhere. That's for the off-season season though, for now we have different fish to fry.

 

[kb]

Huh?

Kadri's 3rd line wasn't sheltered?

It wasn't really sheltered I don't think, but there is a reason that Komarov or Brown or Marleau has been stapled to Kadri for most of the last several seasons. And it wasn't to boost their numbers.

 

[ToneDog]

I agree, it seems like people are really getting carried away here. Nylander's had a few good games and all of a sudden, people think he's Crosby. We're really well set up for the next few years as it is now, Kadri's really good as a 3rd line centre playing with whoever they put on his wing and it seems clear that Nylander is better off doing anything other than taking on the defensive responsibilities of the centre in our zone. You can put Kadri up against any centre in the league and not worry too much about it, you sure as hell can't say the same about Nylander.

Kadri at centre and Nylander as a top 6 forward, this makes sense and it works. Why fix something that isn't broke?

Nobody is getting carried away. I call it having a discussion.

 

[nsleaf]

I agree, it seems like people are really getting carried away here. Nylander's had a few good games and all of a sudden, people think he's Crosby. We're really well set up for the next few years as it is now, Kadri's really good as a 3rd line centre playing with whoever they put on his wing and it seems clear that Nylander is better off doing anything other than taking on the defensive responsibilities of the centre in our zone. You can put Kadri up against any centre in the league and not worry too much about it, you sure as hell can't say the same about Nylander.

Kadri at centre and Nylander as a top 6 forward, this makes sense and it works. Why fix something that isn't broke?

Yep, some posters do get carried away!

 

[kb]

Babcock has left Willy at C so far game after game. That’s as promising as anyone jumping the gun.

From the eye test alone, Nylander is a better C IMO. Will he have bad games? Of course. He’s much better in the middle IMO as he’s not the up and down winger type. He’s not going to (usually) drive the net on most plays. He’s going to control. Wingers can dump and chase. The best place for the puck is on his stick.

Time will tell of course. It’s still not going to stop the decision collision course coming concerning you can’t keep all of Kadri,Johnsson,Kapanen,etc. It’s coming.

Agreed. Nylander was a primarily a centre all the way through until he hit the NHL. What I find ironic is the same ones who bashed the team for their handling of Kadri early on (demotions, playing wing, etc.) are the same ones saying to back up the truck on Nylander being a centre, we need to see more, etc. Kadri was anything but a 200 ft player at 22, and Nylander is already a better 2-way centre now at 22 than Kadri ever was until he finally took his life and NHL career more seriously following his team imposed suspension. I was impressed with the way Kadri responded when challenged publicly like that - he won me back over in a big way because he finally started taking his off-ice life and the defensive side of things seriously.

But there is little time left for sentiment about that now. The team is very competitive, and has to field the best on ice product, whatever that may be.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nobody is getting carried away. I call it having a discussion.

IMO, the people that already think Nylander is a better centre than Kadri are getting carried away.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed. Nylander was a primarily a centre all the way through until he hit the NHL. What I find ironic is the same ones who bashed the team for their handling of Kadri early on (demotions, playing wing, etc.) are the same ones saying to back up the truck on Nylander being a centre, we need to see more, etc. Kadri was anything but a 200 ft player at 22, and Nylander is already a better 2-way centre now at 22 than Kadri ever was until he finally took his life and NHL career more seriously following his team imposed suspension. I was impressed with the way Kadri responded when challenged publicly like that - he won me back over in a big way because he finally started taking his off-ice life and the defensive side of things seriously.

But there is little time left for sentiment about that now. The team is very competitive, and has to field the best on ice product, whatever that may be.

You're absolutely right - we need to field the best team we can today. And that means that comparing Nylander to what Kadri was when he was 22 is utterly pointless - what matters is what they are today.

 

[ULF_55]

I agree, it seems like people are really getting carried away here. Nylander's had a few good games and all of a sudden, people think he's Crosby. We're really well set up for the next few years as it is now, Kadri's really good as a 3rd line centre playing with whoever they put on his wing and it seems clear that Nylander is better off doing anything other than taking on the defensive responsibilities of the centre in our zone. You can put Kadri up against any centre in the league and not worry too much about it, you sure as hell can't say the same about Nylander.

Kadri at centre and Nylander as a top 6 forward, this makes sense and it works. Why fix something that isn't broke?

Perhaps a little hyperbole "all of a sudden, people think he's Crosby."

Nylander has played center prior to the NHL, so it isn't like this is completely new to him.

I can say that Nylander moves the puck much better than Kadri ever has, but Kadri is more, or used to be, more physical than Nylander.

Maybe this time off will give Kadri an opportunity to re-charge and be fresh for the playoffs.

 

[Menzinger]

I love Kadri, BUT the fact is between Matthews and Tavares there isn’t a need for him to play that shutdown role anymore.

Nylander also has looked amazing playing his natural position (albeit in a very small sample size). He definitely seems to thrive away from the puck having the increased responsibility, there’s less time and space to lead him to cheat for offense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Perhaps a little hyperbole "all of a sudden, people think he's Crosby."

Nylander has played center prior to the NHL, so it isn't like this is completely new to him.

I can say that Nylander moves the puck much better than Kadri ever has, but Kadri is more, or used to be, more physical than Nylander.

Maybe this time off will give Kadri an opportunity to re-charge and be fresh for the playoffs.

Definitely. I don't make a habit of it but IMHO, there's nothing wrong with a little hyperbole every now and then. My point stands though - people shouldn't jump to conclusions based on a very small sample size.

Nylander has looked pretty good though. I'm not jumping for joy over him being at a 72 point pace over 15 games or whatever those number are because as far as I'm concerned, he should be at a 72 pace over 82 games so he's just (finally) playing like he should. I am happy that he's back on track and he is of course one of the best puck movers in the game.

When Kadri gets back, does anyone really think Nylander won't be moved to the wing again? It seems like a given that this is what will happen so ...

 

[1specter]

I agree, it seems like people are really getting carried away here. Nylander's had a few good games and all of a sudden, people think he's Crosby. We're really well set up for the next few years as it is now, Kadri's really good as a 3rd line centre playing with whoever they put on his wing and it seems clear that Nylander is better off doing anything other than taking on the defensive responsibilities of the centre in our zone. You can put Kadri up against any centre in the league and not worry too much about it, you sure as hell can't say the same about Nylander.

Kadri at centre and Nylander as a top 6 forward, this makes sense and it works. Why fix something that isn't broke?

Agreed. It also really comes down to roster optimization, and ensuring a player like Nylander gets the minutes and usage he needs to be most successful, as well as make the team most effective.

I've seen people say strength down the middle, but we already have that with Kadri.

I'll repeat what I said earlier in the thread, do you think Johnsson/Kapanen playing with Matthews and Nylander at 3C is better for the team rather than Nylander with Matthews and Kadri at 3C? To me that's pretty easily the second option; this is assuming that in either scenario, Kadri or Johnsson/Kapanen are traded for a D.

Also, I look back to when the Wings won the cup in 2008 and Babs had Datsyuk and Zetterberg. He played them together with Datsyuk centering Z, even though Zetterberg could've played C and carried his own line.

 

[Nithoniniel]

When Kadri gets back, does anyone really think Nylander won't be moved to the wing again? It seems like a given that this is what will happen so ...

That's the great thing about versatility. Nylander has shown that if Kadri goes down, he can do that job for us. But with three natural centers in the lineup, he can also be a playmaking winger for us. It gives us so much more adaptability.

 

[ULF_55]

Definitely. I don't make a habit of it but IMHO, there's nothing wrong with a little hyperbole every now and then. My point stands though - people shouldn't jump to conclusions based on a very small sample size.

Nylander has looked pretty good though. I'm not jumping for joy over him being at a 72 point pace over 15 games or whatever those number are because as far as I'm concerned, he should be at a 72 pace over 82 games so he's just (finally) playing like he should. I am happy that he's back on track and he is of course one of the best puck movers in the game.

When Kadri gets back, does anyone really think Nylander won't be moved to the wing again? It seems like a given that this is what will happen so ...

I'd guess the odds are strong the Kadri goes to center.

At this point, Nylander is perhaps the better player, but Kadri is probably better at center than he is at wing, regardless of Nylander's ability at either position.

I could see Kadri being more effective during the playoffs than he has been during the regular season as things tighten up and obstruction is forgiven and speed is impacted. Kadri's lack of speed, in comparison, won't be as noticeable.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's the great thing about versatility. Nylander has shown that if Kadri goes down, he can do that job for us. But with three natural centers in the lineup, he can also be a playmaking winger for us. It gives us so much more adaptability.

Yeah for sure, I'm really happy that Nylander has done as well as he has at centre and it makes me wish Babcock was willing to experiment more with line combos. I remember one playoff series a while back when Scotty Bowman used I think it was 132 different line combos. Now that can only work when you're stacked with forward talent but I believe we are and I would so love to see teams try to cope with us throwing all these different combos at them.

That's not gonna happen of course but maybe, just maybe Babcock will try giving our big guns an extra shift now and then. Send out Matthews, Tavares or why not Nylander with the 4th line every now and then. I really hope to see Babs step outside his comfort zone this spring, it's probably not too likely but one can hope.

 

[Trapper]

Definitely. I don't make a habit of it but IMHO, there's nothing wrong with a little hyperbole every now and then. My point stands though - people shouldn't jump to conclusions based on a very small sample size.

Nylander has looked pretty good though. I'm not jumping for joy over him being at a 72 point pace over 15 games or whatever those number are because as far as I'm concerned, he should be at a 72 pace over 82 games so he's just (finally) playing like he should. I am happy that he's back on track and he is of course one of the best puck movers in the game.

When Kadri gets back, does anyone really think Nylander won't be moved to the wing again? It seems like a given that this is what will happen so ...

Babcock is a creature of habit.
Kadri will be C.
But during the playoffs, he should be ready for anything. If Tavares with Matthews is the best way to beat Boston, do it.

We have the luxury this year.
Most of my point is we are losing that luxury quick.
We have 3 RFAs next year and 2 UFA D.
We also need a solid RHD.

When the time comes and if it’s Kadri to get it done, we have power with Willy at C.
Or it’s Johnsson trades and Willy moves back to wing.
But I like the Matthews/Tavares/Nylander configuration and I like Willy better at C.
As long as I like it right? He’s growing on me there.