Speculation: Nylander, I'm calling you out.
- Thread starter Ianturnedbull
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hamzarocks
Registered User
The only years I'd fault nylander(not all if the blame but a portion) are the two boston series
2018 he was poor as was Matthews. Both got demoted to the 3rd line. He had some assists in game 7 but wasn't great that year
2019 he just had a terrible year overall from the prior year offseason until boston's 2nd ENG in game 7
Had a combined 7 pts in 14 games. Outside of that he has 23 pts in 25 games
That 7 pts in 14 games is what other super skilled wingers in the nylander tier are looking to move on from (reinhart, fiala, ehlers, etc)
Nylander has proven he can produce top line production in the playoffs. Don't doubt now he can score vs any team in the east.
Just hoping keefe does not play him line 3 with no one else
ULF_55
Moderator
Hard to read real emotions on video, but looked like he was thinking things. Maybe not withdrawn but maybe he's an introvert, or he was replaying the sequence over in his head. But you see others engaged on the bench. Just after he hit the crossbar ... maybe reading too much into it?
I thought he might be a little pissed about being on the bench right after. Players have always been mad at their coaches. It's all on the line for everyone, players, coaches and management. This is the year.
ULF_55
Moderator
ULF_55
Moderator
I think what happens in the playoffs determines whether he re-signs in Toronto.
Just my own complete speculation.
ULF_55
Moderator
ULF_55
Moderator
Leafs need more scoring from others:
Highest paid are expected to be at the top.
Again, x-stats don't determine wins/lossses. Goals scored do. At the end of the game they count goals, nothing else.
Highest paid are expected to be at the top.
Again, x-stats don't determine wins/lossses. Goals scored do. At the end of the game they count goals, nothing else.
Sorry I’m super ignorant on stats etc, I’ll leave that up to people who care more about that aspect. All I saw was Nylander driving with the puck to the net all game long. He was a beast, it might be different in the playoffs against a better opponent, but he looked unhappy last night which was a good sign. More focused, more driven. He’ll never be defensively the best hug offensively he looks locked in
Guy not big’
Guy not big’
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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He played well last night. Your eyes didn't deceive you. One of the top players for sure
Yeah my comment was more towards folks expecting he to be this all world player. Defensively yeah he doesn’t engage as he should but Damn he makes up for it as an amazing secondary scorer. On a lot of teams Nylander would be tier 1A here he’s #2 sometimes #3 on his play
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hamzarocks
Registered User
You've pointed such an obscure and irrelevent statistic to minimize Nylander's impact that series
He had kerfoot and galchenyuk. Similar or worse linemates to Marner 2018 (marleau and plekenac) he put 8 pts in 7 games
The goals against I would need to see them to see what fault was his (for example game 5/6 OT i think he was on the ice but those goals were not his fault and he could not do anything on those plays)
His chance creation that series was at a star level, great finishing. Remember galchenyuk is a piss poor defensive player (worse then nylander is), he impacted nylander's defensive impact that series.
Nylander overall is still worse then marner for 2017 -2022 period but 2021 nylander was the only one who did hos job and produced despite difficult circumstances (lost JT 5 mins into game 1)
Nylander wasnt our best forward in 2022 and wasnt a top 3 player
Matthews/marner
Marner/matthews
Rielly
Top 3 players
JT and Nylandwr secind grouping
2021 for sure nylander was the best
Gary Nylund
Registered User
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Dude, the guy is obsessed with Marner to the point where it's creepy. Considering the number times he's quoted me and posted nonsense, it would be weird if I hadn't noticed. Good to know you're so interested in my posts though.
Yup. That's just one problem with that stat, without a ton of context it's simply useless so anyone using it by itself to make a point is either clueless, or has an agenda.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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They are not at all obscure and irrelevant. They are precisely what the team looks at and coaches to prevent. Evidence is clear if you look for it. Number of minutes deployed is an example. When players and coaches talk about playing the right way, it means you dont cheat for offense. You can ignore the most predictive stat in hockey such as xg if you choose but it doesn't negate the reality that it does tell you a lot about a players game quality. There isn't anything mystical that makes Nylander a better playoff warrior than Marner and Matthews. He is far less physical, prone to blowing the zone and will rarely block a shot. What playoff magic would you suggest made him dominate that series other that some opportunistic points on a sheltered line that was outchanced by the Habs all series?
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
I think he just looks like that most of the time. I wouldn't read too much into it
Honestly results matter. Nylander carried a line of Kerfoot (a guy who went goalless in like 25 games this season) and Galchenyuk (a guy who's not even good enough to be in the league anymore) and not only led the team in points, but had those guys producing at higher than expected levels. If the Leafs got out chanced every single game on route to a cup guess how much I'd care? If the Leafs out chance the Lighting to another 1st round loss does that mean anything? Maybe even more respect in the hand shake line I guess.
If only Matthews and Marner were as "opportunistic" as Nylander was that series. There was no easier path to a conference finals than that year and we lost in the first round with Mathews putting up 1 goal and Marner 4 points. Not sure in what world those two were better than Nylander that series.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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The game is won and lost as a team. Adding the fact that he was burdened with less than idea team mates might be a mitigating circumstance but does nothing to support the claim that he played better than everyone else. It does the opposite unless he now played like a superstar while carrying an anchor which might sound great but is still not supported by the numbers of the most predictive performance stats.
ULF_55
Moderator
Matthews and marner were failures in that series.
Results are all that matter, not advanced stats, not pretty stickwork, not being idolized by the fanbase.
Effort <> Result
Result > Effort
The number of goals at the end of the game is all that is taken into consideration when the game is done. Anything else is to assuage grief.
That isn't to say Matthews and marner didn't do their best! They did everything that could, but they were ineffective. They really were the reason the team did not advance. They combined for 1 goal in 7 games. Where is the debate?
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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So the number of goals allowed 5x5 for both Marner and Matthews was 1 over 7 games
The number of goals allowed 5x5 for Nylander was 5 over 7 games
Or do goals scored by Montreal not count?
ULF_55
Moderator
You can't spin it any way that absolves Matthews and marner.
They are not paid $23mm to be Kampf.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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That is a bit of a diversionary argument
He was either better or he wasn't
They got the tougher match ups and held to only 1 goal against and 3 GF
Willy's line held to 5 ga and 6 GF
I'm really dumbing it down with the use of goals as evidence but clearly, it doesnt register that by your own standards the premise of Nylanders superiority doesn't hold up to scrutiny. At the end of the day, he wasn't carrying the team as so many here choose to present things.
I am not a Nylander hater but the truth is the truth and it isn't me who is spinning things. Just because you might not like it doesn't make it any less true.
ULF_55
Moderator
Again, this is misdirection.
Matthews and marner combined for 1 goal in 7 games.
Nothing more needs to be said.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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Marner and Matthews line generated 3 5x5 goals...or do you believe they didn't have anything to do with it? Taking it a step further, do you believe that Nylander's reputation of solid defense absolves him of the responsibility for any of the 5 goals against? Probably not...and what solid defense?
Being obtuse isnt an argument btw.
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