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Speculation: Nylander III

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LyricalLyricist

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Aug 21, 2007
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Divine said:
How is it less risk? The average coach/GM role is way shorter than the average playing career.
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Babcock cannot be bought out...his contract is guaranteed even if he's fired. He does not need to be in peak physical condition, he does not get injured, etc...

So a coach makes 6.25 mil for 8 years but the player who can suffer concussions and CTE should take a discount?

There's risk beyond financial risk. I don't imagine Nylander is of great risk to get concussions but other injuries can happen. Torn muscles, broken bones, back issues, etc...

It's just a hypocritical thing for Shanahan to ask for after he cashed in over the pre-salary cap era and makes 2.5 mil to be a president of hockey ops today when the GM and coach get the most attention in management.
 

LyricalLyricist

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Bazeek said:
They'd likely have to wait awhile for a trade like that to become available. To the extent that teams are ever willing to part with top-pairing defenseman, they're just about never looking to do it this early in the season.
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That's true but they can sign him knowing they'll flip him later too.
 
Divine

Divine

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LyricalLyricist said:
Babcock cannot be bought out...his contract is guaranteed even if he's fired. He does not need to be in peak physical condition, he does not get injured, etc...

So a coach makes 6.25 mil for 8 years but the player who can suffer concussions and CTE should take a discount?

There's risk beyond financial risk. I don't imagine Nylander is of great risk to get concussions but other injuries can happen. Torn muscles, broken bones, back issues, etc...

It's just a hypocritical thing for Shanahan to ask for after he cashed in over the pre-salary cap era and makes 2.5 mil to be a president of hockey ops today when the GM and coach get the most attention in management.
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Shanahan definitely took discounts, contrary to conspiracy theories.

 
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ThatGuy22

ThatGuy22

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MyBudJT said:
I agree with Burke, using the Detroit analogy wasn't the best...

He could have simply pointed to the best teams in the NBA and teams like TBL/NAS

If Nylander doesn't want to buy into the Leafs' plans, he doesn't have to... but the Leafs are not going to overpay their players and pay above market value... Market Value on a 6 year deal for Nylander is around 6 million.
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3 or 4 years ago maybe. Draitsle and Eichel changed the market.
 

LyricalLyricist

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Divine said:
Shanahan definitely took discounts, contrary to conspiracy theories.

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Ah great, Shanahan made 6.5 million 20 years ago. Forget inflation and the fact the league has boomed since. 6.5 mil then is what today?

NHL Salaries - NHL Hockey - USA TODAY

That's best I could find. The cap today is 79.5 and the floor is 58.8 If we took the cap at face value without inflation 23 teams would be under the floor today...

Regarding Shanahan in the 2002-03 season red wings paid out 68.4 mil in salaries. Shanahan made 7 mil that year(capfriendly says he made 7 mil but he may have made 6.5 average on his contract)...over 10% of the team's salary...this was a 'discount'.

Shanahan is a great talent of course, better than Nylander but numbers at face value seem a little odd without context. Shanahan made plenty given the league wasn't giving out as much money back then.
 

LyricalLyricist

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Bazeek said:
It's hard to say, but I strongly suspect that Nylander fearing the sign-and-flip possibility is at the center of this situation. It's a trickier problem than the cap hit and term.
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It's too bad, I like Nylander and even as a habs fan I got nothing against the leafs beyond the fact their a division rival.

The Tavares signing complicates things IMO but I wonder how long leafs will go with Matthews-Tavares-Kadri knowing they're wingers will want a pay cheque too and knowing they need help at D.

Nylander knows Matthews will get a blank cheque but I don't think Matthews is double the player Nylander is which is probably the pay the expect him to take. 6 mil or so for Nylander, 12 mil for Matthews.
 
Divine

Divine

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LyricalLyricist said:
Ah great, Shanahan made 6.5 million 20 years ago. Forget inflation and the fact the league has boomed since. 6.5 mil then is what today?

NHL Salaries - NHL Hockey - USA TODAY

That's best I could find. The cap today is 79.5 and the floor is 58.8 If we took the cap at face value without inflation 23 teams would be under the floor today...

Regarding Shanahan in the 2002-03 season red wings paid out 68.4 mil in salaries. Shanahan made 7 mil that year...over 10% of the team's salary...this was a 'discount'.

Shanahan is a great talent of course, better than Nylander but numbers at face value seem a little odd without context. Shanahan made plenty given the league wasn't giving out as much money back then.
Click to expand...

There was no salary cap, and other players were making 10M. Is that not a discount? Why do you keep changing your argument? It was a discount compared to market value.
 
Cor

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LyricalLyricist said:
Babcock cannot be bought out...his contract is guaranteed even if he's fired. He does not need to be in peak physical condition, he does not get injured, etc...

So a coach makes 6.25 mil for 8 years but the player who can suffer concussions and CTE should take a discount?

There's risk beyond financial risk. I don't imagine Nylander is of great risk to get concussions but other injuries can happen. Torn muscles, broken bones, back issues, etc...

It's just a hypocritical thing for Shanahan to ask for after he cashed in over the pre-salary cap era and makes 2.5 mil to be a president of hockey ops today when the GM and coach get the most attention in management.
Click to expand...

This is such a stupid comparable.

Babcock's contract affects nothing. It has nothing to do with anything. If it wasn't such a high profile hire, we wouldn't even know the exact amounts.

William Nylander's contract does have an affect because it is under the Salary Cap and can affect the quality of other players the team can afford.

That shouldnt need to be explained.
 
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Tit

Tit

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Divine said:
And he's the 13th highest goal scorer in NHL history. He was a way better player than Nylander.
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Absolutely.
I saw Shanny break the glass at the ACC right in front of me.
They fixed it and the next play he went bar down.
Guy was a beast.
 

LyricalLyricist

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Cor said:
This is such a stupid comparable.

Babcock's contract affects nothing. It has nothing to do with anything. If it wasn't such a high profile hire, we wouldn't even know the exact amounts.

William Nylander's contract does have an affect because it is under the Salary Cap and can affect the quality of other players the team can afford.

That shouldnt need to be explained.
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Because its hypocritical for management to suggest to drop the greed when they take the most they can.

Of course it's not on the cap but it's hypocritical nonetheless.

Nylander should get fair value(doesn't mean the maximum). Just fair. If he deems that to be 6, so be it. If he can get 7 elsewhere so be it.

it's also a load of shit because you just know they'll give Matthews a huge pay and ask Nylander and Marner to off set the costs.
 
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TS Quint

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Tomas W said:
Who is his agent, any other contract this agent been involved with? Why does not Willy know ANYTHING?
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He tells the media he doesn’t know anything because he doesn’t want to talk about it. He has nothing to gain by telling you anything about negotiations.
 
CupInSIX

CupInSIX

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Jul 1, 2012
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Why is it taking them so long to get him 3-4m in under the table moneys? Lou would have started a fake company by now to give him a 'sponsorship' :sarcasm:
 

LyricalLyricist

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Divine said:
And he's the 13th highest goal scorer in NHL history. He was a way better player than Nylander.
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And I said that. Again...his dramatic discount was 10% of the team's salary and the team was paying one of the most for players league wide. His salary would've been 20% of some team's payroll...again...that's at a discount. He got paid handsomely, a discount on red wings was a luxury many other teams couldn't even afford to pay.

So yeah Shanahan was great, a stud but he got paid well. It doesn't matter 15 forwards league wide got paid more, he got paid great money for that era.

It all depends how much the leafs want Nylander to cut but if I'm nylander I would be livid if I take a paycut and they use the savings to give Matthews a blank check. Not saying Matthews isn't better or deserving but I get the feeling Nylander is not as appreciated given they see Tavares, Matthews and Marner as more talented(and rightfully so).

We'll see what happens but if Nylander takes a discount and Marner AND Matthews get big bucks then I'd be surprised if he plays out the entire contract with the leafs because it would be slap in the face.

​
 
A1LeafNation

A1LeafNation

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Darz said:
...another point for the "Shanahan took discounts' group is.....what did Shanahan do after his entry level contract was up???

He signed an offer sheet with another team that was offering more money. no discount there.
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Lamoriello knew he was short changing him.

No ill will though, Shanny hired him with the Leafs.
 

novon04

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Dec 21, 2011
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Divine said:
There was no salary cap, and other players were making 10M. Is that not a discount? Why do you keep changing your argument? It was a discount compared to market value.
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What was the market value? You can't compare Shanahan at that point with Sakic and Forsberg. 70+ point winger vs 90+ point centers.
 

Roysakic

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Sep 19, 2018
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Divine said:
There was no salary cap, and other players were making 10M. Is that not a discount? Why do you keep changing your argument? It was a discount compared to market value.
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No that was shannhan value. He was a great player but wasn’t a sakic or forsberg. Also that was 15 years I know what 6.5 million was 15 years ago. 6.5 now in Toronto is great but not anything crazy
 
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