[NYI/WSH] NYI Acquire UFA rights to Halak (4th round pick)

[lorwood]

You make less money as a backup than you do as a starter. There aren't enough starting jobs for all the goalies on the market, so he'd be wise to take one while he is ensured the spot and the money. It's really simple.

Have to disagree. You will never know the market until you let it play out and take a look. Is there risk involved? Sure, but like I said this is a once in a lifetime deal and any agent worth his salt will not let a player "go hungry"

Besides it's not like the NYI is a dream job.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

You make less money as a backup than you do as a starter. There aren't enough starting jobs for all the goalies on the market, so he'd be wise to take one while he is ensured the spot and the money. It's really simple.

Maybe, maybe not. If I were him I'd test the market (as most players in his position would do). Sure the Isles could sign someone else and Halak may find himself in a weaker negotiating position but I doubt it. If you're a UFA, you gotta entertain other offers.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Have to disagree. You will never know the market until you let it play out and take a look. Is there risk involved? Sure, but like I said this is a once in a lifetime deal and any agent worth his salt will not let a player "go hungry"

Besides it's not like the NYI is a dream job.

Exactly.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

Have to disagree. You will never know the market until you let it play out and take a look. Is there risk involved? Sure, but like I said this is a once in a lifetime deal and any agent worth his salt will not let a player "go hungry"

Besides it's not like the NYI is a dream job.

Not always true when your price yourself out when there is a limited number of positions. Biron did that a few a years ago with the Flyers, held out to be a UFA and test the market and I think that was the year he ended up our backup.

Stephen Drew is an example from baseball, his agent got greedy and Drew ended up losing 4 million.

If and that is a big if with Snow being an idiot and Wang being the cheapest owner in the world the Islanders offer a good deal like 5million for 5 years Halak and his agent should sign it. Waiting could cost Halak a few million and a starting job.

 

[lorwood]

Not always true when your price yourself out when there is a limited number of positions. Biron did that a few a years ago with the Flyers, held out to be a UFA and test the market and I think that was the year he ended up our backup.

Stephen Drew is an example from baseball, his agent got greedy and Drew ended up losing 4 million.

If and that is a big if with Snow being an idiot and Wang being the cheapest owner in the world the Islanders offer a good deal like 5million for 5 years Halak and his agent should sign it. Waiting could cost Halak a few million and a starting job.

I think this is the key. As far as I have heard he has not publicly set a price for his services. His best play would be to see what is offered.

 

[PK Cronin]

Have to disagree. You will never know the market until you let it play out and take a look. Is there risk involved? Sure, but like I said this is a once in a lifetime deal and any agent worth his salt will not let a player "go hungry"

Besides it's not like the NYI is a dream job.

Why would you want to take such a large risk? There are some definitive pieces to the market, because there is a salary cap and contracts. He knows 90%+ of his possible destinations already. Washington is out, St. Louis is out, Buffalo is out for the teams that are/were even looking for a goaltender. What is he holding out for? There isn't much of a benefit unless he wants to play anywhere as long as it isn't Long Island.

A once in a lifetime deal doesn't mean it's going to be a good deal. He could get shafted on that once in a lifetime deal. Why risk a sure thing?

Maybe, maybe not. If I were him I'd test the market (as most players in his position would do). Sure the Isles could sign someone else and Halak may find himself in a weaker negotiating position but I doubt it. If you're a UFA, you gotta entertain other offers.

No, you don't. Especially playing in a position like he does. There are 30 starting jobs in the NHL, most of which are currently occupied. The amount of teams available who will give him a quality offer over someone else is few.

Not always true when your price yourself out when there is a limited number of positions. Biron did that a few a years ago with the Flyers, held out to be a UFA and test the market and I think that was the year he ended up our backup.

Stephen Drew is an example from baseball, his agent got greedy and Drew ended up losing 4 million.

If and that is a big if with Snow being an idiot and Wang being the cheapest owner in the world the Islanders offer a good deal like 5million for 5 years Halak and his agent should sign it. Waiting could cost Halak a few million and a starting job.

Exactly. He could play himself out of a guaranteed starting job (something he wants) and out of a lot of money (something he wants) if he enters the free agency. The question is how much is Wang and Snow offering him? If it's anything close to what he would get elsewhere, he has to take it. There is no reason to turn down an offer of 5 or 5.5 million because you think you could possibly get an extra 500k somewhere else. If he loses that gamble, he just dropped millions of dollars per year. Now, if the offer is some cheap ridiculous one, then you can test the market.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think this is the key. As far as I have heard he has not publicly set a price for his services. His best play would be to see what is offered.

No, his best play is to take a realistic offer now, instead of hoping he gets a better one later. If he passes on this, do you think the Isles would keep the offer on the table after he hears other offers and they aren't as good? Unlikely.

 

[lorwood]

Why would you want to take such a large risk? There are some definitive pieces to the market, because there is a salary cap and contracts. He knows 90%+ of his possible destinations already. Washington is out, St. Louis is out, Buffalo is out for the teams that are/were even looking for a goaltender. What is he holding out for? There isn't much of a benefit unless he wants to play anywhere as long as it isn't Long Island.

A once in a lifetime deal doesn't mean it's going to be a good deal. He could get shafted on that once in a lifetime deal. Why risk a sure thing?



No, you don't. Especially playing in a position like he does. There are 30 starting jobs in the NHL, most of which are currently occupied. The amount of teams available who will give him a quality offer over someone else is few.



Exactly. He could play himself out of a guaranteed starting job (something he wants) and out of a lot of money (something he wants) if he enters the free agency. The question is how much is Wang and Snow offering him? If it's anything close to what he would get elsewhere, he has to take it. There is no reason to turn down an offer of 5 or 5.5 million because you think you could possibly get an extra 500k somewhere else. If he loses that gamble, he just dropped millions of dollars per year. Now, if the offer is some cheap ridiculous one, then you can test the market.

Hate to say this but being the goaltender on a perennial loser is probably the worst position to be in all of sports. For me there would be a real value to avoiding this. Even if it meant being a number two waiting for my chance.

 

[PK Cronin]

Hate to say this but being the goaltender on a perennial loser is probably the worst position to be in all of sports. For me there would be a real value to avoiding this. Even if it meant being a number two waiting for my chance.

A goalie should be in the mindset of thinking that he can be the difference, especially when the largest hole on this current team is the position he plays.

If he doesn't want a guaranteed starting job in New York he can test the market and be happy playing second fiddle to someone else again. I'm sure every athlete dreams of being on the bench.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

No, his best play is to take a realistic offer now, instead of hoping he gets a better one later. If he passes on this, do you think the Isles would keep the offer on the table after he hears other offers and they aren't as good? Unlikely.

Of course that's the risk. But he may hear better offers. How many UFA goalies are out there and how many teams are realistically looking for a #1 goalie?

 

[YoureMyBoyLou]

I believe Tomas Vokoun was another goalie who waited too long and got stuck accepting an offer as a back up.

 

[lorwood]

A goalie should be in the mindset of thinking that he can be the difference, especially when the largest hole on this current team is the position he plays.

If he doesn't want a guaranteed starting job in New York he can test the market and be happy playing second fiddle to someone else again. I'm sure every athlete dreams of being on the bench.

How does any player make the difference with an organization that does not even have a management structure? For this player and his agent looking at the NYI becomes about so much more than ice time and money. It's still the reason free agents don't come here or leave at the first opportunity. Nothing has changed in this regard.

 

[PK Cronin]

Of course that's the risk. But he may hear better offers. How many UFA goalies are out there and how many teams are realistically looking for a #1 goalie?

Miller
Hiller
Dubnyk
Bryz
Emery
Gustavsson

Then you have you Brodeur, Thomas, Nabby, Clemmenson, Peters, etc.

The amount of teams looking for goalies from what I can tell, excluding Washington, Buffalo, and the Islanders are:

Edmonton
Calgary
Maybe Minnesota...Backstrom is locked up for one more year at 3.4 million and they are supposed to be adding a large contract up front so I'm not sure they'll have the room.

There could be other options with teams making trades and whatnot, but those are the teams that are in need of a goalie and have the space currently to sign one without an issue. Are any of those really better options than NY?

 

[PK Cronin]

How does any player make the difference with an organization that does not even have a management structure? For this player and his agent looking at the NYI becomes about so much more than ice time and money. It's still the reason free agents don't come here or leave at the first opportunity. Nothing has changed in this regard.

If you're going to try and tell me that he won't sign here because our ownership and management appear to be stupid, that's fine. But that isn't what you were initially arguing.

 

[lorwood]

If you're going to try and tell me that he won't sign here because our ownership and management appear to be stupid, that's fine. But that isn't what you were initially arguing.

I am arguing that the smart play given all of the factors, making it to free agency, not knowing what the market is until July, having only the NYI in play due to the trade, the career ramifications of playing for the NYI, make the smart play to wait and see what is out there.

Frankly the notion of jumping on the Islanders ship out of fear of making a mistake is, IMHO, backwards thinking.

 

[blinkman360]

Miller
Hiller
Dubnyk
Bryz
Emery
Gustavsson

Then you have you Brodeur, Thomas, Nabby, Clemmenson, Peters, etc.

The amount of teams looking for goalies from what I can tell, excluding Washington, Buffalo, and the Islanders are:

Edmonton
Calgary
Maybe Minnesota...Backstrom is locked up for one more year at 3.4 million and they are supposed to be adding a large contract up front so I'm not sure they'll have the room.

There could be other options with teams making trades and whatnot, but those are the teams that are in need of a goalie and have the space currently to sign one without an issue. Are any of those really better options than NY?

You know that the market isn't great when the three big UFAs are leaving teams that will NOT be looking for replacements.

Miller - STL: Elliott was re-signed, and Allen will get his spot.

Hiller - ANA: Gibson and Andersen... not much needs to be said.

Halak - WAS: Holtby and Grubauer are the expected duo next year.

Even a couple of the teams you listed probably won't be in the market. Calgary really likes Ramo. They are still rebuilding and will probably be fine with using him as the #1 next year. Edmonton just traded decent assets for Scriven(who had success there already) and Fasth. Don't see them really exploring the market.

Minnesota is definitely one team that will be looking, but who else? Let's say worst case scenario, Halak decides to hold out for Minny and actually signs there. Who is left to offer big contracts to Hiller or Miller? Who needs a goaltender badly enough to match the type of offer we would throw out there?

One way or the other, I don't see this situation playing out poorly for us.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Miller
Hiller
Dubnyk
Bryz
Emery
Gustavsson

Then you have you Brodeur, Thomas, Nabby, Clemmenson, Peters, etc.

The amount of teams looking for goalies from what I can tell, excluding Washington, Buffalo, and the Islanders are:

Edmonton
Calgary
Maybe Minnesota...Backstrom is locked up for one more year at 3.4 million and they are supposed to be adding a large contract up front so I'm not sure they'll have the room.

There could be other options with teams making trades and whatnot, but those are the teams that are in need of a goalie and have the space currently to sign one without an issue. Are any of those really better options than NY?

Hmmm. Thanks for that. So roughly 1/2 dozen goalies with legitimate aspirations of being #1's and roughly 1/2 dozen teams looking for one. Halak certainly doesn't have tons of leverage here. Will be interesting how it plays out. You're right, the smart thing to do may be to take the Isles offer...

 

[Paulinho]

You know that the market isn't great when the three big UFAs are leaving teams that will NOT be looking for replacements.

Miller - STL: Elliott was re-signed, and Allen will get his spot.

Hiller - ANA: Gibson and Andersen... not much needs to be said.

Halak - WAS: Holtby and Grubauer are the expected duo next year.

Even a couple of the teams you listed probably won't be in the market. Calgary really likes Ramo. They are still rebuilding and will probably be fine with using him as the #1 next year. Edmonton just traded decent assets for Scriven(who had success there already) and Fasth. Don't see them really exploring the market.

Minnesota is definitely one team that will be looking, but who else? Let's say worst case scenario, Halak decides to hold out for Minny and actually signs there. Who is left to offer big contracts to Hiller or Miller? Who needs a goaltender badly enough to match the type of offer we would throw out there?

One way or the other, I don't see this situation playing out poorly for us.

I think the Caps will make a run at a goalie.

 

[redbull]

This is taking long, making many posters anxious, but this isn't a huge deal. They gave up a 4th rounder to talk to him, they'll make a fair offer (given the budget and the expectations of the player) and then decide to sign him or let him go. It's that simple. It's not a HUGE win to sign him and not a huge loss if they don't - this isn't Carey Price.

There's no denying that Wang and Snow have a "brand" problem. Fact is, Isles are a laughing stock, until proving otherwise. So they'll have to overpay to attract/sign/retain players and if they don't start winning, that won't ever change.

It's a downward spiral of failure that is their own doing.

It's a very poorly run team in every way except the payroll. That's no coincidence.

But they HAVE TO spend so this one's a no brainer. Halak will sign because he'll get good money, term and a starting role. No other team in the league will offer that opportunity. Now, if Halak is interested in a ring, then there are other options and he'll get back-up money and back-up term. If that's his motivation, then you can't fault him or Snow (or Wang) for trying.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

This is taking long, making many posters anxious, but this isn't a huge deal. They gave up a 4th rounder to talk to him, they'll make a fair offer (given the budget and the expectations of the player) and then decide to sign him or let him go. It's that simple. It's not a HUGE win to sign him and not a huge loss if they don't - this isn't Carey Price.

There's no denying that Wang and Snow have a "brand" problem. Fact is, Isles are a laughing stock, until proving otherwise. So they'll have to overpay to attract/sign/retain players and if they don't start winning, that won't ever change.

It's a downward spiral of failure that is their own doing.

It's a very poorly run team in every way except the payroll. That's no coincidence.

But they HAVE TO spend so this one's a no brainer. Halak will sign because he'll get good money, term and a starting role. No other team in the league will offer that opportunity. Now, if Halak is interested in a ring, then there are other options and he'll get back-up money and back-up term. If that's his motivation, then you can't fault him or Snow (or Wang) for trying.

Another perspective is that we gave up a draft pick to speak with him, but his demands were outrageous so we decided to pass. This is called the Snow Maneuver, which somehow is seen as a triumph from the owners box. There are no "no brainers" with the current management of this team.
BTW, I can fault Snow and Wang for PLENTY. Sitting on their hands for two years with obvious needs to fill is the most recent example.

 

[PK Cronin]

You know that the market isn't great when the three big UFAs are leaving teams that will NOT be looking for replacements.

Miller - STL: Elliott was re-signed, and Allen will get his spot.

Hiller - ANA: Gibson and Andersen... not much needs to be said.

Halak - WAS: Holtby and Grubauer are the expected duo next year.

Even a couple of the teams you listed probably won't be in the market. Calgary really likes Ramo. They are still rebuilding and will probably be fine with using him as the #1 next year. Edmonton just traded decent assets for Scriven(who had success there already) and Fasth. Don't see them really exploring the market.

Minnesota is definitely one team that will be looking, but who else? Let's say worst case scenario, Halak decides to hold out for Minny and actually signs there. Who is left to offer big contracts to Hiller or Miller? Who needs a goaltender badly enough to match the type of offer we would throw out there?

One way or the other, I don't see this situation playing out poorly for us.

I listed Calgary because Ramo is going to be a UFA unless they resign him right now. So you could actually add Ramo to the list of potential competition for Halak if he goes the UFA route.

Minnesota has Kuemper, who seemed to do well until his injury. They also have Backstrom and Harding. Harding is making 1.9 million...so they have quite a bit of money invested in their goalies already. They'd have to move one, I'd think, in order to sign a new goalie and get the Vanek/Moulson player they went to replace Heatley.

You're probably right about Edmonton, I just included them because they play revolving doors with their goalies constantly.

Hmmm. Thanks for that. So roughly 1/2 dozen goalies with legitimate aspirations of being #1's and roughly 1/2 dozen teams looking for one. Halak certainly doesn't have tons of leverage here. Will be interesting how it plays out. You're right, the smart thing to do may be to take the Isles offer...

It's probably less when you look at it realistically (see the above portion), unless someone really shakes something up. Pittsburgh should be looking to move Fleury, but they're going to probably be stuck eating his salary and are already in cap trouble. San Jose could be a landing spot, I forgot to include them above, because Niemi only has one year left and Stalock is a UFA. Winnipeg has nearly 4 million on Pavelec for another three season, so even if they want to get another goalie...that's a lot of money in goaltenders.

This UFA period for goalies is going to be an absolute mess. So many teams are going with younger guys and there is a plethora of goalies already locked up to big contracts that would be hard to move to clear room for another #1 goalie.

 

[Seph]

Hate to say this but being the goaltender on a perennial loser is probably the worst position to be in all of sports. For me there would be a real value to avoiding this. Even if it meant being a number two waiting for my chance.

Would that value be worth 2-3 million per year to you? Because getting more than 2m when being signed to play back up is pretty rare.

 

[Weltschmerz]

whoever categorized Kölsch as Alt should avoid visiting Cologne

 

[LeapOnOver]

Any word on whether Halak has actually visited LI yet? Better do it before it gets too hot and humid lol....

 

[islesfan186]

You know that the market isn't great when the three big UFAs are leaving teams that will NOT be looking for replacements.

Miller - STL: Elliott was re-signed, and Allen will get his spot.

Hiller - ANA: Gibson and Andersen... not much needs to be said.

Halak - WAS: Holtby and Grubauer are the expected duo next year.

Even a couple of the teams you listed probably won't be in the market. Calgary really likes Ramo. They are still rebuilding and will probably be fine with using him as the #1 next year. Edmonton just traded decent assets for Scriven(who had success there already) and Fasth. Don't see them really exploring the market.

Minnesota is definitely one team that will be looking, but who else? Let's say worst case scenario, Halak decides to hold out for Minny and actually signs there. Who is left to offer big contracts to Hiller or Miller? Who needs a goaltender badly enough to match the type of offer we would throw out there?

One way or the other, I don't see this situation playing out poorly for us.

I think MIN might roll with Keumper as the starter. Once they put him in net, that was the beginning of the end for the Avs. I think if Keumper didn't get hurt the Wild mat have knocked off the hawks...I mean damn, they took them to 6 games with the space bear in net lol