Today, Staple mentioned JT isn't going to negotiate during the season? If that is the case, I don't see how Snow or ANY GM could possibly deal those picks knowing we could be in a full rebuild on July 2nd. And if they are out of the playoffs at the deadline, how can you possibly hold on to JT and Bailey.
Now is probably the time to finally go all-in
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PK Cronin
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periferal
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The real question is...
If JT doesn't want to negotiate during the season, why didn't he negotiate/sign last offseason?
periferal
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Could...If...Might...Possibly...
This isn't hoping de Haan resigns. Tavares is too valuable to not maintain as much control of the situation as possible. The only play the Isles have is to (professionally) let JT know he's incredibly valued and want him to resign, but also let him know that they cannot let him walk for nothing in July.
PK Cronin
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That's a losing position. Tavares holds all the leverage. Again, the return will be lackluster for an un-signed Tavares and it's not worth definitively losing a him because we're worried he might not re-sign. If we're talking about a trade and sign, he'll bring in a huge haul and should be considered more seriously.
periferal
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I'm beginning to think you (and several others) keep saying, "the return for Tavares will be lackluster" so you can justify in your mind taking the risk of losing him for nothing in a few months.
July 2018 we're going to hear a lot of, "It's ok we let JT walk in free agency. It was worth the risk to try and resign him since we really wouldn't have gotten much at the deadline anyway."
You would never get a Tavares level player back in a deal so of course it's always going to feel like you "lost" in a trade, but I'd be willing to bet there would be at least 3-5 teams in a bidding war to get 20+ games from JT to not only make a Cup run, but also convince him to sign there by July.
Heck - I bet you could get at least a 2nd round pick if you just traded his negotiating rights alone before the draft.
As a result I'm supremely confident that if JT were to be traded that the return would be AT LEAST a 1st round pick, top prospect, and something else of value.
And if that's the case, that's a far cry from getting ZERO from him should he walk in July.
And if you're going to seriously sit there and tell me that you'd let JT walk for nothing over taking something like that package I just outlined, then I'd say you don't know what's best for the franchise.
PK Cronin
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You always want to make it black and white. I've said repeatedly that if Tavares has indicated he doesn't want to sign, he should be traded. Otherwise, you simply don't trade your franchise player for scraps. And yes, what you're talking about is scraps.
I'd be absolutely fine with saying it's okay we let him walk, because it was worth the risk, so long as he didn't indicate he wouldn't re-sign. I didn't say you'd get zero for him, it's just lackluster. The return is much closer to nothing than it is Tavares. Not getting that return will not set the franchise back much more than getting it, so this idea that we're going to be set back years if we don't trade him is crazy. It'd have a minimal impact in the grand scheme of things. How many first rounders pan out? How about prospects? How many years would it take for them to be contributors anyway? I understand it helps, it's just not worth it to me.
I'm not basing my opinion around trying to convince myself of anything. I've done the research on star players being dealt at the deadline (and have posted them here). I've read the trade forums and seen what other people think is fair value for a pending UFA star. It isn't pretty.
Your position is a convenient one though. If Tavares is traded, you'll say, "at least we didn't lose him for nothing because he wouldn't re-sign here anyway" even though we have no way to know if that's true. If he isn't traded and doesn't re-sign, then it becomes an "I told you so" moment for you. If he isn't traded and does re-sign, then you'll say how he indicated to management that he'd sign and how great it is that he did. You're going to be "right" no matter what the outcome is in this scenario.
periferal
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I wouldn't say I want to make things black or white, but rather I want to arrive at the bottom line as soon as possible. I see all the dynamics of this situation (Barclays, Belmont, new ownership, coaching, snow, the yet-to-be-established 2018-2019 cap number, etc), and the bottom line for me is letting Tavares go for nothing is unacceptable.
And I don't care about "being right" here. You're just so off-base on this angle. I want Tavares signed yesterday. I will literally sleep better. This, to me, is simply about what I believe is best for the Islanders franchise. I totally respect your right to think it's better for the Isles to risk JT walking for nothing is better for the Islanders, but I don't agree.
Look Tavares owes the Islanders nothing, but it really would be something if he's planning on testing the market and either strongly considering leaving (or completely planning to), and not giving the Isles front office any indication of that so they can act accordingly.
Completely agree here.
Side note, At the end of the day If the islanders are out of it by the deadline, I don’t see how management could possibly have no idea what his plans are. If he tells Garth he’s 50/50 at the deadline he’s just being difficult and that helps nobody
Look at the discussion under the graph he tweeted. Says JT is 65% likely to stay and that he won't negotiate in-season.
PK Cronin
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It always takes a while, but we eventually get here. Fair enough.
Awesome, thanks. Was viewing on my phone so I didn't check.
It always takes a while, but we eventually get here. Fair enough.
Awesome, thanks. Was viewing on my phone so I didn't check.
No problem. I often find that Staple buries some good nuggets in the comments section. THe 65% and not negotiating in season can be found there.
periferal
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It always takes a while, but we eventually get here. Fair enough.
With great respect...I am always "here." What I said in my last post you thoughts was "fair" was what I felt all along. Again it's not about being "right," but rather just always trying to use the right combination of words to convey my point.
PK Cronin
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Doshell Propivo
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Looks like "going all in" now will be acquiring a #1D, #1G, #3C and a couple of depth defensemen.
sooo..Belmont did nothing to sway JT's decision? Maybe he thinks he's off the hook and won't look like a d ouche if he leaves now that Barzal's here...basically, he's now ok because before the guilt would bother him about leaving a franchise and basically making the Isles having to rebuild again?
Doshell Propivo
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BrockLobster
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Sparksrus3
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majormet
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Actually his agent Brisson was the one that was interested but his bid was too high... finally found that out this week
PK Cronin
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Uhm, yeah they could. Just like every other team that does it.
I don't understand most of the comments here. JT owes the Islanders NOTHING. They failed him by surrounding him with a mediocre team. For most of his tenure he skated on a line with players more suited to 2nd and 3rd lines. Their drafts have failed to produce high end defensemen in spite of the use of several 1st round picks and one entire draft dedicated to defensemen. Other than Barzal, all of their high picks have also produced little more than 3rd liners and AHLers. Not a single NHL goaltender good enough to be a #1 on a contending team has been drafted by Snow and his scouting team. But don't worry, we have Andrew Ladd here for what, another 5 years?
And lets not kids ourselves...getting Boychuk back is not going to stop the endless string of games where 5 or more goals are scored against this largely immobile, constantly out of position and mistake prone defense. Years and years of excuses...payroll limits, injuries, arena uncertainties, bad ice...when the problem is simply bad management.
If JT stays, I'll be pleased but shocked. The Isles haven't given him any reason to stay given that his main objective is to win a championship. The Isles had JT signed to one of the most team friendly deals in the league and couldn't even take advantage of that to build a team good enough to contend.
And lets not kids ourselves...getting Boychuk back is not going to stop the endless string of games where 5 or more goals are scored against this largely immobile, constantly out of position and mistake prone defense. Years and years of excuses...payroll limits, injuries, arena uncertainties, bad ice...when the problem is simply bad management.
If JT stays, I'll be pleased but shocked. The Isles haven't given him any reason to stay given that his main objective is to win a championship. The Isles had JT signed to one of the most team friendly deals in the league and couldn't even take advantage of that to build a team good enough to contend.
he will look like more of a douche if you ask me, Barzal is a big piece of the puzzle, if Tavares was going to leave when the Isles had nothing else going for them except for Tavares I would understand it, now that the Islanders look like they have a big piece to get them in the right direction, him leaving now will be messed up if you ask me
