Series Talk: North Division Round 1: Leafs (1) vs. Canadiens (4)

[mydnyte]

Yep... neutral zone trap and outworked.

you cant do anything about teams playing the trap, other than play around it, and not keep trying to force the slot when its not available.
but, being outworked, should never happen! worst case scenario, match the effort.

 

[Bluelines]

Wasn't our only bad stretch this year when Andersen completely fell apart?

Not sure what your argument is here.

When he was injured and fell apart? Right.

 

[PromisedLand]

I just don't think they are as effective playing that way. I could be wrong on this, but the NYI/CBJ model was only effective because they played their whole season exactly like that leading up to the playoffs. Going to be hard for them to completely buy into a game plan that they haven't been able to implement effectively all year.

the Islanders allowed the 2nd fewest goals/game in the NHL this year and the 2019-20 CBJ gave up the 3rd fewest goals/game in that season. In contrast, MTL was ranked 18th in that same category. Now I'm sure MTL fans will belly ache and moan and say it was purely because of the COVID condensed schedule and injuries. But the simple fact of the matter is they are not as good defensively as those 2 that you listed. in fact, defensively we outperformed them considerably and if we wanted to trap the game up, we could likely limit them to 1.5G/game. If we do that, this series is over in short order

I think montreal played cbj/nyi style hockey in the playoffs last year because they had no offensive weapon and it helped them to an extent even when they didnt play that style in regular season

i think they are repeating that model, except. Julien is a seasoned coach the new guy is a rookie

 

[tom leafers]

intersting to see them putting a BITCH line togeteher

perry-staal-anderson

and weber on the 3rd pairing

i think montreal trying to go "islander/CBJ style" hockey. keep defending, keep hitting and hope for mistakes to get offense going

I would be afraid of that if Julien was still the coach. He actually knew how to line match and play a defensive game. DD is slow to react and many habs fans wants him gone.

 

[Mats13]

When he was injured and fell apart? Right.

Whatever your opinion on him, goaltending caused our bad stretch, no?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

When he was injured and fell apart? Right.

You said only someone who is uneducated on the facts, or gas lighting, would believe that goal tending was the main reason for our 7 game skid.

You promptly turn to make excuses for the poor goal tending in that stretch.

As you would say, not a good look.

 

[Kiwi]

it should be up to the league to have teams be on an equal footing rather than give certain teams a competitive advantage and tell the other teams to deal with it

Next up every time somebody gets an injury the playoffs will be suspended until the player is available again

Your vaccine rollout sucks? Your problem deal with it

 

[Stephen]

Both those teams had the elite talent to match our still young top guys, while having better depth talent.

Matthews 19 -- Ovechkin 31
Marner 19 ----- Backstrom 29
Nylander 20 --- Kuznetsov 24

Kadri 26 ------ Oshie 30
VanRyk 27 --- Williams 35
Komarov 30 - Johansson 26

Bozak 30 --- Eller 27
Hyman 24 - Wilson 22
Brown 23 --- Burakovsky 21

Boyle 32 ---- Beagle 31
Martin 27 --- Winnik 31
Kapanen 20 --- Connolly 24/Vrana 20



Rielly 22 ----- Carlson 27
Hunwick 30 - Niskanen 30

Gardiner 26 -- Shattenkirk 28
Zaitsev 25 ----- Orlov 25

Marincin 24 -- Schmidt 25
Polak 30 ---- Alzner 28
Carrick 22 -- Orpik 36

Andersen 27 --- Holtby 27
McElhinney 33 - Grubauer 25



Matthews 20 -- Bergeron 32
Marner 20 ----- Marchand 29
Nylander 21 --- Pastrnak 21

Kadri 27 ------ Krejci 31
VanRyk 28 --- Rick Nash 33
Marleau 38 - Backes 33

Bozak 31 --- Riley Nash 27
Hyman 25 - Acciari 25
Brown 24 -- Kuraly 26

Plekanec 35 ---- Gionta 39
Kapanen 21 --- Debrusk 21
Johnsson 23 --- Heinen 22
Komarov 31 --- Wingels 27


Rielly 23 ----- McAvoy 20
Hainsey 36 - Chara 40

Gardiner 27 -- Krug 26
Zaitsev 26 ----- Miller 30

Polak 31 ---- McQuaid 31
Dermott 21 - Grzelcyk 24
Marincin 25 - Holden 30


Andersen 28 --- Rask 30
McElhinney 34 - Khudobin 31

No shame in admitting those teams simply had more prime talent right through the roster. Credit to the leafs for competing so hard against them.


It wasn't until year 3 that we actually started matching talentwise:

Matthews 21 -- Bergeron 33
Marner 21 ----- Marchand 30
Nylander 22 --- Pastrnak 22

Tavares 28 --- Krejci 32
Hyman 26 --- Debrusk 22
Kadri 28 ------ Johansson 28

Marleau 39 --- Backes 34
Kapanen 22- Debrusk 22
Johnsson 24 -- Heinen 23

Brown 25 ---- Kuraly 26
Ennis 29 --- Nordstrom 26
Gauthier 23 --- Acciari 27
Moore 23 --- Wagner 27


Rielly 24 ----- McAvoy 21
Muzzin 29 -- Chara 41

Hainsey 37 -- Krug 27
Zaitsev 27 ----- Carlo 22

Gardiner 28 -- Grzelcyk 25
Dermott 22 - Clifton 23
Marincin 26 - Moore 28


Andersen 29 --- Rask 30
Hutchinson 29 - Khudobin 31


Now this year was a bit of a piss off - but I will never let Babcock off the hook for his gross overplaying of Marleau, Hainsey, and Zaitsev when we had clearly superior options.

You can’t have it both ways. If the Leafs were lacking in prime and talent in each of their Boston and Washington series, which I would agree with for the Capitals and not for the Bruins, then how can the same case be made that the Leafs were held back by mediocre coaching and goaltending?

Furthermore, the Leafs claim to greatness in this current era is predicated on having a superstar led team that may not be ready to win in the intangibles arena - which is why management brought in intangibles and not people like Taylor Hall as late as this season. So how can we be on the track of becoming more well rounded when you’re diagnosing the issue as not having enough skill?

The recent evolution of the team and Dubas’ work doesn’t reflect these claims. We have never been a plucky young team mismatched on talent. We’ve been a team that is learning championship habits.

 

[Kiwi]

I'm just a fan, there's nothing for me to "deal with" lol. There's plenty of evidence that crowds are a huge part of home advantage, when one team has that and the other doesn't thats a significant difference. I'm just pointing that out.

So? Tampa has a tax advantage, Toronto has a revenue advantage

If the States has a better vaccine rollout that's your tough luck

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Next up every time somebody gets an injury the playoffs will be suspended until the player is available again

Your vaccine rollout sucks? Your problem deal with it

I'm sure you know why nobody expects a level playing field for random things like injuries but do when it comes to league mandates for how the playoffs are run

 

[Bluelines]

You said only someone who is uneducated on the facts, or gas lighting, would believe that goal tending was the main reason for our 7 game skid.

You promptly turn to make excuses for the poor goal tending in that stretch.

As you would say, not a good look.

Did you watch any of the games? Did you see the turn overs at our blue line, the tipped pucks, the cross crease passes?

The goaltending stats in that stretch was mostly a result of poor team play. So the truth was Andy was playing injured, the truth was Jack Campbell was playing injured or on the IR, the truth was our healthy option was Hutch. The truth was our team played poorly in front of our goaltending, the truth is the truth, only a child would think other wise.

A simple person looks at stats, says bad stats = bad goaltending. A knowledgeable person looks at the game and says hey the end result of poor team play is crappy goaltending stats and oh the goalie was injured too? Makes sense.

Now lets return to the thread discussion.

 

[Bluelines]

Whatever your opinion on him, goaltending caused our bad stretch, no?

Poor team play and an injured goalie caused the poor stretch.

 

[TwineTickler]

The actual relevant stats are posted above by @TwineTickler .

Whatever you think the stats you posted here have to do with the post of mine you quoted I don't know - but I suggest you go back and read it before digging yourself deeper.

You tried to attack me personally in ignorance, and embarrassed yourself again.

No biggie. Just stop digging.

Thanks for bringing me into this chat fellas... but I think you tagged the wrong man!

 

[Mickey Marner]

Has the Leafs projected game one lineup been poster anywhere? I've read that Sandin and Nash are both in, but haven't seen anything concrete.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Did you watch any of the games?

Gaslighting often develops gradually, making it difficult for a person to detect. According to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, techniques a person may use to gaslight someone include:

Countering: This describes a person questioning someone’s memories. They may say things such as, “you never remember things accurately,” or “are you sure? You have a bad memory.”
...

Didn't really have to read your post beyond that. The stats support that goal tending was bad. You supported that goal tending was bad. Stats say team played well enough to win over half those games. I watched the games, goal tending looked very bad in them.

 

[Squiffy]

Everyone’s good I see? Mess and ULF, has Buffaloed rented out a couple dozen extra servers for the series, gone DEFCON3 in the mod forum? Say hi for me. Lol…

ummm.

Go Leafs Go.

Yes, yes, that’s how it’s done. Long way from tank for Tavares we are we are. I was 2 years old last this series happened, just this side of literally waiting my whole life for it.

Lets get it on!

 

[Marshy]

Everyone’s good I see? Mess and ULF, has Buffaloed rented out a couple dozen extra servers for the series, gone DEFCON3 in the mod forum? Say hi for me. Lol…

ummm.

Go Leafs Go.

Yes, yes, that’s how it’s done. Long way from tank for Tavares we are we are. I was 2 years old last this series happened, just this side of literally waiting my whole life for it.

Lets get it on!

Hey Squiff - just an FYI the link in your sig goes nowhere. Looks like it went to a specific post here at one time.

 

[Mats13]

Poor team play and an injured goalie caused the poor stretch.

What metric are you using to determine poor team play?

The factors with facts:

- Leafs outshot their opponents and outchanced them resulting in higher expected goal for
- Andersen was awful. Sporting a horrible sv% and performing well below expectations. Supported by his negative goals saved above expected.

Looks like it was just poor goaltending. You’re gonna need to provide some support if you want to argue that the team played bad.

 

[Squiffy]

Hey Squiff - just an FYI the link in your sig goes nowhere. Looks like it went to a specific post here at one time.

oh man… is it the bWo thing? Man that is going way way back…

I don’t even know where to edit it anymore, I’m a dinosaur on this forum.

 

[Marshy]

oh man… is it the bWo thing? Man that is going way way back…

Ya..I tried to find the post using the new URL but the numbering is different here at the new mandatory.com servers.

Anyway...good to see you old timer.

 

[Squiffy]

Ya..I tried to find the post using the new URL but the numbering is different here at the new mandatory.com servers.

Anyway...good to see you old timer.

that’s a shame, that was a historically comedic thread from the dark days. Good to see you and others around too, I imagine I’ll be around a bit the next little while to catch up. Cheers

 

[ACC1224]

Quebec is discussing allowing fans for their games, going to try and beat us with fan power. How will you NOT be outside Scotiabank on Thursday night supporting our guys? Non-stop protests for a year, that's all fine, you think they'll hassle hockey fans in Toronto for LeafsVHabs for the first time since 79? I'd like to see them try.

COME OUT TO MAPLE LEAF SQUARE. YOU KNOW THAT HAB FANS WILL BE LOOKING TO TOP US.

I’d rather watch the game. You’ll bring a radio?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Thanks for bringing me into this chat fellas... but I think you tagged the wrong man!

You seem like a swell guy. What are your thoughts on Andersen's play during the Leafs 7 game regular season slump?

 

[Bluelines]

What metric are you using to determine poor team play?

The factors with facts:

- Leafs outshot their opponents and outchanced them resulting in higher expected goal for
- Andersen was awful. Sporting a horrible sv% and performing well below expectations. Supported by his negative goals saved above expected.

Looks like it was just poor goaltending. You’re gonna need to provide some support if you want to argue that the team played bad.

Watching the game is always the best metric. Been watching/playing for 47 years, I think I got a pretty good understanding of when a team is playing poorly.

You want me to provide support? OK go to SNET and TSN and watch the entire game. Watch for the turnovers at our blue line by Dermott, watch for the shitty way Rielly plays 2 on 1's. watch for the tipped goals.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Watching the game is always the best metric. Been watching/playing for 47 years, I think I got a pretty good understanding of when a team is playing poorly.

You want me to provide support? OK go to SNET and TSN and watch the entire game. Watch for the turnovers at our blue line by Dermott, watch for the shitty way Rielly plays 2 on 1's. watch for the tipped goals.

We saw them. All teams turn over the puck at the blue line, get caught in 2 on 1's, and let point shots through with occasional tips every game. It's more a question of how often it's happening, if it's happening more than most teams, or more than the opposition. Taking that into consideration when watching the game, the Leafs played better than the opposing teams, and the stats support that. If your standard of playing poorly is because that stuff happened in that game, then you would never accept that a goalie is not playing very well, because losing would never be his fault.

Stats exist and are used by professionals, because even professionals struggle to precisely internalize the magnitude of these errors, due to varying inherent psychological biases. Your beer league experience does not lift you above that.