No QO for Pirri

[Duck Off]

Am I missing where Palms was gonna play? He wasn't going to be in our top 6 with Silf and Perry.

No one anticipated rolling 3 lines for a long period of time.

NJD gave him top line minutes and he delivered.

If we keep Palms, we probably never trade for Perron and never get rid of Hagelin's contract.

So you're saying Murray didn't know Bruce wanted to roll 3 lines? So maybe he should converse with his coach more, rather than just acquire players and let the coach figure it out.

The problem isn't that Palms was traded. It's that he was traded for futures, which is exactly what we didn't need. If he's traded as part of a package for a better player, no one says a word. What's even worse is that he was traded for futures when Murray knew he'd lose Beleskey. Maybe not know for sure, but know there's a strong possibility. Why does this matter? Because our team lacked finishers. Beleskey was one in his career year. He replaced Bells and Palms with Stewart and Hagelin. That's terrible vision.

I don't see how anyone can defend that Palmieri trade honestly.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Am I missing where Palms was gonna play? He wasn't going to be in our top 6 with Silf and Perry.

No one anticipated rolling 3 lines for a long period of time.

NJD gave him top line minutes and he delivered.

If we keep Palms, we probably never trade for Perron and never get rid of Hagelin's contract.

really? then why were getzlaf and perry broken up in camp? it was an attempt to spread out scoring, and surely was not done on a whim, regardless the ducks gave palmieri away for nothing and look what he did when he got consistent opportunities. every time he would have a cold spell here he would just be pushed down the lineup instead of letting him play thru it.

if the ducks really had to get rid of palms, what do you think his value would be now after a highly productive season? more than what we got i would presume

 

[Ducks DVM]

Bonino - Traded for Kesler. Are you telling me you wouldn't do that deal again? I would and twice on Sundays.
Perreault - Yeah, bad move by BM.
Beleskey - Don't care he's gone. Too expensive for what he brings. $4M for a guy who didn't even put up 40 pts last. And some people are hard on Silf... wow.
Palmieri - Still a good trade given what Palms had achieved at the time. You're viewing this with hindsight. Palms wasn't a 30 goals scorer here and probably never would have been.
Pirri? - Can score, but that's about it. Probably going to get paid. We can't afford him. What's the problem?
Perron? - Dunno yet... definitely better players available. I'll wait to criticise BM if he doesn't bring back Perron AND doesn't sign a big name UFA. Until then, I have no problem letting Perron walk.
McGinn? - I wouldn't class McGinn as a pure "goal scorer". Another player looking to get paid. I think there are better options and players that'll give us a better bang for our buck.

You're being very selective and very harsh. Apart from MP, I think all of those moves are justified.

I think I'll see what BM replaces Pirri and Perron with before I start calling for his head.

I'm not judging, I'm pointing out how much goal scoring is walking out the door, and I don't see any in-house replacements. It's all well and good to point out the flaws with each and every one of them, but that's why they're depth players over top line guys getting paid 30-50% of what legit top line guys get paid. It's an undeniable trend that we hemorrhage goal scorers.

For the record, my opinions are that losing Bonino hurts but we got the better player so I'm ok with it, Perreault was a bad move and he was paid appropriately, losing Beleskey made the team worse because his hitting made the second line work better than it does with Cogliano and also he has a far better shot, Palmieri was traded for what he was worth at the time and because he was perennially invisible in the playoffs, I thought Pirri was much better defensively than advertised but exactly what was advertised offensively (and he's a top 3 shot on this roster), I won't miss McGinn (he's all the parts of a power forward Maroon isn't but none of the parts that he is), and I think Perron is ideal for the roster in play making, scoring, nastiness, and chemistry with Getzlaf and will be missed.

 

[mytduxfan*]

So you're saying Murray didn't know Bruce wanted to roll 3 lines? So maybe he should converse with his coach more, rather than just acquire players and let the coach figure it out.

The problem isn't that Palms was traded. It's that he was traded for futures, which is exactly what we didn't need. If he's traded as part of a package for a better player, no one says a word. What's even worse is that he was traded for futures when Murray knew he'd lose Beleskey. Maybe not know for sure, but know there's a strong possibility. Why does this matter? Because our team lacked finishers. Beleskey was one in his career year. He replaced Bells and Palms with Stewart and Hagelin. That's terrible vision.

I don't see how anyone can defend that Palmieri trade honestly.

2012-13 - 42GP - 10G - 21PTS = 2.38 PTS/60
2013-14 - 71GP - 14G - 31PTS = 2.22 PTS/60
2014-15 - 57GP - 14G - 29PTS = 1.51 PTS/60

1. No real progression in terms of production,
2. Wasn't fitting well with is line-mates,
3. Couldn't play LW, but couldn't break the top 6 on the RW,
4. Abysmal playoff showing scoring 1G and 3A in 16GP,
5. Got absolutely smashed to pieces against WPG and CHI,

I could go on...

It's all well and good being captain hindsight here, but Palms was very "meh" during last season and that's exemplified by his reduced PTS/60. You say "he shouldn't have been traded for futures"... what kind of player do you really think we return with Palms, a guy best described as a 3rd line goal scoring winger who cannot defend and will often disappear for long periods... oh, and he got absolutely smashed in the playoffs and was a complete no-show offensively. The return for Palms was slightly cheap, but he wasn't returning an impact player, that's for sure.

IMO, at best, maybe you could criticise BM for moving him a year too early. However, it is totally wishful thinking if you believe that Palms would have been a 30 goal scorer here... totally wishful thinking. He's flourished in the East where speed and skill are king. I don't blame BM for that.

 

[Trojans86]

Palms completely disappeared in the playoffs which is why I think we letc him go. I'm more upset about beleskey. When he left we were thinking he was going to fetch a lot more than he actually got. We ended up basically trading him for Hagel in which was a failed experiment.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Palms completely disappeared in the playoffs which is why I think we letc him go. I'm more upset about beleskey. When he left we were thinking he was going to fetch a lot more than he actually got. We ended up basically trading him for Hagel in which was a failed experiment.

A lot of people completely disappeared in the playoffs, multiple times.

 

[mytduxfan*]

I'm not judging, I'm pointing out how much goal scoring is walking out the door, and I don't see any in-house replacements. It's all well and good to point out the flaws with each and every one of them, but that's why they're depth players over top line guys getting paid 30-50% of what legit top line guys get paid. It's an undeniable trend that we hemorrhage goal scorers.

For the record, my opinions are that losing Bonino hurts but we got the better player so I'm ok with it, Perreault was a bad move and he was paid appropriately, losing Beleskey made the team worse because his hitting made the second line work better than it does with Cogliano and them also he has a far better shot, Palmieri was traded for what he was worth at the time and because he was perennially invisible in the playoffs, I thought Pirri was much better defensively than advertised but exactly what was advertised offensively (and he's a top 3 shot on this roster), I won't miss McGinn (he's all the parts of a power forward Maroon isn't but none of the parts that he is), and I think Perron is ideal for the roster n plat making, scoring, nastiness, and chemistry with Getzlaf and will be missed.

You're totally judging. The bold is proof of that. How many goal scorers do you think we need. IMO, we probably need 1 more.

XXX - Getzlaf - Perry
XXX - Rakell - XXX
XXX - Kesler - Silfverberg

Most of the top teams have 6 core guys and then lower skilled guys around them i.e. in CHI it's Toews, Kane, Anisimov, Panarin, Hossa, TT, in PIT it's Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Hagelin, Bonino, in SJ is Thornton, Pavelski, Marleau, Couture, Hertl, Ward. Right now, we only have 5 cores guys, so we need 1 more. BM has said he's going after a high-skilled LW. That would give us the magic 6. What's the problem? If we go into next season with something like:

Ritchie - Getzlaf - Perry
Eriksson - Rakell - XXX (cheap depth scoring guy)
Cogliano - Kesler - Silfverberg

Then I think we're in pretty good shape.

 

[McDonald19]

Pirri was basically a rental that didn't work out. (mostly because of injury)

Can use the money on someone else.

 

[Ducks DVM]

You're totally judging. The bold is proof of that. How many goal scorers do you think we need. IMO, we probably need 1 more.

XXX - Getzlaf - Perry
XXX - Rakell - XXX
XXX - Kesler - Silfverberg

Most of the top teams have 6 core guys and then lower skilled guys around them i.e. in CHI it's Toews, Kane, Anisimov, Panarin, Hossa, TT, in PIT it's Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Hagelin, Bonino, in SJ is Thornton, Pavelski, Marleau, Couture, Hertl, Ward. Right now, we only have 5 cores guys, so we need 1 more. BM has said he's going after a high-skilled LW. That would give us the magic 6. What's the problem? If we go into next season with something like:

Ritchie - Getzlaf - Perry
Eriksson - Rakell - XXX (cheap depth scoring guy)
Cogliano - Kesler - Silfverberg

Then I think we're in pretty good shape.

I don't consider Getzlaf a reliable goal scorer, especially without a complementary player. I don't consider Silfverberg a reliable goal scorer at all. Yet. Way too streaky. Same with Rakell, who's no good unless he's with Getzlaf and/or Perry. Kesler is a goal scorer when he wants to be, but not when he goes into troll mode.

I'm judging him for losing all those players, not for the individual moves. This roster is nowhere near the offensive juggernaut it was a couple years ago, and he's already made the goaltending worse (not that he had a choice, and I mean that whoever replaces Andersen won't be remotely as good as him), and he's about to make the defense worse if he ships out Fowler.

Ritchie is likely another year away from being an actual top 6 player, and there's no way we can afford Eriksson IMO. That roster to me does not compare favorably with San Jose or any of the top teams in the Central.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Pirri was basically a rental that didn't work out. (mostly because of injury)

Can use the money on someone else.

Someone like . . . a healthy Pirri! But not Pirri. That'd be too easy.

 

[paine]

Someone like . . . a healthy Pirri! But not Pirri. That'd be too easy.

Can't afford him, and he's terrible defensively. And he's hurt all the time.

 

[Getzmonster]

Am I missing where Palms was gonna play? He wasn't going to be in our top 6 with Silf and Perry.

No one anticipated rolling 3 lines for a long period of time.

NJD gave him top line minutes and he delivered.

If we keep Palms, we probably never trade for Perron and never get rid of Hagelin's contract.

Where does Rakell fit in the top six behind Getzlaf and Kesler?

Murray ran out of patience with Palms, he needed to fill the void left by Beleskey, he got enamored with Hags, and saw a chance to bring it all together in one fell swoop. It was a decision that wasn't without reason, but it was poor asset management and short-sighted. The risk that Palms would regress and lose value (a 2nd + 3rd rd pick value), was greatly outweighed by the possible reward of letting him have that last year leading up to his next contract to put it together and increase his value. Murray gambled that against the returns he would get from 4 years of Hagelin filling a bigger role, and whiffed on both counts. I'm not sure why people try so hard to defend this one, it's just weak sauce from Murray. Now, outside of 1/2 season of Perron, we have nothing to show for any of it outside of hoping Pirri signs and pans out, otherwise I hope Stewart isn't busy.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Can't afford him, and he's terrible defensively. And he's hurt all the time.

Why do you keep saying he's terrible defensively?

 

[paine]

Why do you keep saying he's terrible defensively?

1. Florida fans said the same.

2. Based on his limited playing time with Ducks.

3. Eric Stephens said "the Ducks appear to want that slot open for a cheaper, more multi-dimensional forward.

 

[Ducks DVM]

1. Florida fans said the same.

2. Based on his limited playing time with Ducks.

3. Eric Stephens said "the Ducks appear to want that slot open for a cheaper, more multi-dimensional forward.

I don't think he's great, but I hardly thought he was terrible. His stats don't seem to bear out that label either. YMMV.

 

[paine]

I don't think he's great, but I hardly thought he was terrible. His stats don't seem to bear out that label either. YMMV.

What would you have preferred? Waste time going to arbitration, and then let him walk when he's awarded more than we can afford?

 

[Ducks DVM]

What would you have preferred? Waste time going to arbitration, and then let him walk when he's awarded more than we can afford?

Qualify him and use the pressure of just how ugly arbitration is to sign him to a reasonable contract. Give him a qualifying offer then flip him for a pick somewhere that could use him. I'm not sure I see the point of even spending the 6th on him if there was never any intention of qualifying him, considering he was injured when the trade was made.

There's nothing remotely like him in the system. The team will be worse again next year in all likelihood, unless our streaky players decide to not be streaky again.

 

[McDonald19]

Someone like . . . a healthy Pirri! But not Pirri. That'd be too easy.

You really like Pirri at 4 mil?

That can go to bringing back Perron.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Pirri would not get 4mil through any system

 

[Markus078]

Pretty easy
Perron Getzlaf Palms
McGinn Rakell Perry
Cogs Kesler Silf

Palmeri somehow did not that well with Getzlaf didn't he? Based on this roster we would face the same situation like now. Even more we would have to move pieces. Tbh, I liked Perron more than Palms and I'm a huge fan of Palmeri. In a perfect world Ritchie now takes Palmeris spot and we have our top 9.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Palmeri somehow did not that well with Getzlaf didn't he? Based on this roster we would face the same situation like now. Even more we would have to move pieces. Tbh, I liked Perron more than Palms and I'm a huge fan of Palmeri. In a perfect world Ritchie now takes Palmeris spot and we have our top 9.

He didn't fit with Getzlaf because he was forced to play his off wing cause Perry was on right

 

[Markus078]

Palms completely disappeared in the playoffs which is why I think we letc him go. I'm more upset about beleskey. When he left we were thinking he was going to fetch a lot more than he actually got. We ended up basically trading him for Hagel in which was a failed experiment.

I thought Bels was a great fit for Kesler and Silfv but I liked the experiment with Hagelin. He is a good player and you have seen what he can do in the right environment. It just did not work but it was worth to give it a shot.

It is not easy to predict chemistry but to me the idea of adding another speedy guy was good. We ended up trading Beleskey for Perron and that is a great one. I hope somehow we can resign Perron, who, when healthy is a 20g, 50 pts guy.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

the bonino stuff around here is getting old, of all the things to get on BM for this is low on the list, the ducks got a much better player for him and something you do 100 out of 100 times.

 

[Theridion]

Im in the camp that wants deeper scoring. This team was humming with Perron and McGinn. Although injuries helped to disrupt.

 

[Paul4587]

Am I missing where Palms was gonna play? He wasn't going to be in our top 6 with Silf and Perry.

No one anticipated rolling 3 lines for a long period of time.

NJD gave him top line minutes and he delivered.

If we keep Palms, we probably never trade for Perron and never get rid of Hagelin's contract.

Considering we split Getzlaf and Perry and had a big gaping hole on Getzlaf's right wing all year I think he would have done ok...

He just needed a consistent opportunity to play RW on a scoring line and to catch a break and not get hurt. Plenty of posters on this forum could see it was only a matter of time before he broke out. Unfortunately he did it in NJ and not here.

And for those ripping his one bad post season, he was clearly playing through something. Compare how he looked then compared to how he looked in December, he was slower and his shoulder looked completely off. Before last season he had one very good and one decent playoff showing with limited ice time.