Confirmed Signing with Link: [NJD] Dougie Hamilton signs with the Devils (7 years, $9M AAV)

[Fatass]

You're kind of proving my point that no other teams actually offered Hamilton a contract besides Carolina and NJ.

Lots of teams likely had interest, but not at 63 million. Sure NJ overpaid, but they got their guy.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

no one did because it was a nonsense list.

For example, present day Drew Doughty, John Klingberg, and Morgan Rielly are nowhere CLOSE to as good as Dougie

and Josh Morrissey and Colton Parayko lmao

Are you basing this on paper or from what you've actually seen?

Drew Doughty, John Klingberg, and Morgan Reilly are either Norris winners or Norris candidates, which seems to be thrown around in this thread a lot. Morrissey and Parako eat up big minutes for their teams, and would be great #3's for Carolina.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

Lots of teams likely had interest, but not at 63 million. Sure NJ overpaid, but they got their guy.

Which was the point of the original post, that nobody else was offering 63 million for him. Unless that was the number Dougie and his agent said was enough to leave Carolina, it seemed like NJ was betting against themselves.

 

[hidek91]

when you have tons of cap space, you should "throw it" in the areas that need the most attention. RD was a glaring need, so we threw money at it.

if we gave danault (who is a terrific center) a huge contract this offseason, that would be a massive boner because we have hughes and nico. that's the difference.

Management isn't that simple, you have to consider a lot of variables, not just see RD and go va banque. Florida needed goalie and they signed Bobrovsky to very high contract. I think this one will end up closer to Tavares than Bobrovsky but there's a huge risk involved in signing long-term deal that will almost certainly include players' decline.

 

[MartyOwns]

Management isn't that simple, you have to consider a lot of variables, not just see RD and go va banque. Florida needed goalie and they signed Bobrovsky to very high contract. I think this one will end up closer to Tavares than Bobrovsky but there's a huge risk involved in signing long-term deal that will almost certainly include players' decline.

if they gave that contract to dan mcgillis, i'd agree with you. but this is one of the best RD in hockey right now (top 15 IMO). defensemen like that don't typically make it to ufa, specifically because of how valuable they are. when you have the cap space we have, the need we have, and a player that fills that need perfectly, it's a no brainer.

i agree that there is always risk with these kinds of contracts, but those risks are smaller than ever nowadays when bad contracts can be traded towards the end or a player can develop an equipment allergy and put on LTIR. i'd also say that (calculated) risks are necessary to be successful.

goalies are completely different. i would never, ever give a goalie a double digit million dollar deal unless the cap went up to $100m. so the bob example doesn't do much for me.

 

[Guttersniped]

You can say what you said about Carlson and Burns, but these guys at the end of the day got their contracts based off of point production (maybe not Carlson, he's actually pretty decent on D), which is what the NJ fans in this thread keep emphasizing when talking about Hamilton. SJ and WSH also knew full well the age of the players.

And Skjei, and I'll even say Gardiner aren't grossly overpaid. Skjei's probably a $4-4.5 million player. Gardiner, much like Hamilton, was coming off of several statistically successful seasons for Toronto prior to us signing him, despite what everyone was saying about his defensive play, like Hamilton. And no, I'm not comparing Hamilton's overall play to Gardiner because that would be silly. I'm just saying Gardiner had limitations that made his contract unnecessary for Carolina

And I would say at this point, Carolina doesn't have any horrible contracts. Don't know if you watch The Hockey Guy on youtube, but he recently did a video on the worst contracts for each team. He said there were a couple teams that he felt didn't have horrible contracts, with Carolina being one of them. I think we have several players above what they should be (Skjei, Gardiner, Nino, Staal), but none of them are grossly overpaid for what they produce. And that's the point of why Carolina ultimately didn't sign him. It wasn't because the cap team was too cheap, it was because they didn't see the value of signing him for $7 million + aav when they couldn't rely on him to play top pairing minutes when it mattered.

Did the Hockey Guy say the Hamilton contract was horrible, one of the worst in the league and he’s grossly overpaid?

I’m not saying those Cane defensemen have horrible contracts, I’m just saying not all contracts have to flawless wonders for fans to be ok with them.

You keep not understanding how Devils fans can think Hamilton is worth having even if the contract isn’t a dream come true. It’s a UFA signing.

This is just going in circles. I don’t care that much why the Canes didn’t sign him, I’m sorry if it’s mean or something that people are saying it’s because they are cheap. It doesn’t concern me.

And yes, the Canes having a bunch of defensemen with sizable contracts already makes it different from the Devils, who don’t have a lot defensemen on sizable contracts. (And Subban is on a very sizable one but that’s ending in a year.)

 

[Guttersniped]

Are you basing this on paper or from what you've actually seen?

Drew Doughty, John Klingberg, and Morgan Reilly are either Norris winners or Norris candidates, which seems to be thrown around in this thread a lot. Morrissey and Parako eat up big minutes for their teams, and would be great #3's for Carolina.

I’ve seen plenty of Morrissey and I don’t why you think Devils care what fantasy “number 3” defensemen scenario is running in running in your head.

You’re in luck friend. You don’t have Dougie Hamilton wasting your team’s precious cap space anymore and now you can pick someone else to call the Hurricanes’ #3 defenseman.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

Did the Hockey Guy say the Hamilton contract was horrible, one of the worst in the league and he’s grossly overpaid?

I’m not saying those Cane defensemen have horrible contracts, I’m just saying not all contracts have to flawless wonders for fans to be ok with them.

You keep not understanding how Devils fans can think Hamilton is worth having even if the contract isn’t a dream come true. It’s a UFA signing.

This is just going in circles. I don’t care that much why the Canes didn’t sign him, I’m sorry if it’s mean or something that people are saying it’s because they are cheap. It doesn’t concern me.

And yes, the Canes having a bunch of defensemen with sizable contracts already makes it different from the Devils, who don’t have a lot defensemen on sizable contracts. (And Subban is on a very sizable one but that’s ending in a year.)

The Hockey Guy had Subban as NJ's worst contracts. He also did a video at the end of last season on his top 20 dmen in the league. In fairness, he had Hamilton at I believe 12th, but did put Slavin ahead of him though. But also in fairness, he had 15 of the 20 players I mentioned on my list in his top 20 as well (Including Doughty, Klingberg, Parayko, Theodore, Rielly, and Hughes, all of which I was lol'd/lmao'd at). Saying who's the best at anything is subjective, I just personally think there's 20 players that I would rather have in Carolina playing the role that Hamilton played here.

All of those points were fair. And for you and the rest of the Devils fans reading this, for the umpteenth time, I have no issues with Hamilton. I wish circumstances were different and he could've stayed in Carolina. You're getting a good player. I do think he's top 15 at the RHD position, but I do not think he's top 15 overall in the league. Even though he is on a divisional rival, I hope he does well for as long as possible. All I wanted to convey was for you guys to temper your expectations. We as Carolina fans have all seen what you've seen on paper, we are just giving you insight of what you might not be seeing on paper.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Lots of teams likely had interest, but not at 63 million. Sure NJ overpaid, but they got their guy.

so what contract should Dougie Hamilton have gotten? Keep in mind he hit the market as a UFA and lesser players like Seth Jones and Darnell Nurse got similar deals, without hitting the open market.

If Dougie got $8 million/year instead of $9, would that have made it better? Is $1 million to a team swimming in cap space a big deal....?

Are you basing this on paper or from what you've actually seen?

Drew Doughty, John Klingberg, and Morgan Reilly are either Norris winners or Norris candidates, which seems to be thrown around in this thread a lot. Morrissey and Parako eat up big minutes for their teams, and would be great #3's for Carolina.

Both.

Doughty is clearly not the same player he was at his peak. Klingberg and Rielly are nowhere near as good as Hamilton is.

Morrisey and Parayko are both on a steep decline.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

I’ve seen plenty of Morrissey and I don’t why you think Devils care what fantasy “number 3” defensemen scenario is running in running in your head.

You’re in luck friend. You don’t have Dougie Hamilton wasting your team’s precious cap space anymore and now you can pick someone else to call the Hurricanes’ #3 defenseman.

Yup, it's looking like Brady Skjei lol. Having said that, even without Hamilton I'd still take Carolina's blueline over that of 2/3rds of the NHL, it's just not something Carolina can really call a strength like they once did.

Luckily for you my good man, that post you replied to wasn't directed at you. The Devils probably don't care about my fantasy "number 3" but the poster that I was replying to asked someone, anyone to make a list of players and I did, sir.

 

[Fatass]

so what contract should Dougie Hamilton have gotten? Keep in mind he hit the market as a UFA and lesser players like Seth Jones and Darnell Nurse got similar deals, without hitting the open market.

If Dougie got $8 million/year instead of $9, would that have made it better? Is $1 million to a team swimming in cap space a big deal....?



Both.

Doughty is clearly not the same player he was at his peak. Klingberg and Rielly are nowhere near as good as Hamilton is.

Morrisey and Parayko are both on a steep decline.

I agree with you. The Devils overpaid (maybe by a year in term and 1 mil on the cap) but it’s worth it to get their guy.

 

[TBF1972]

So to counter this statement, if a defenseman is leaguewide average offensively with elite defensive abilities, does that also make him a top 15 dman?

Slavin and yes

 

[TBF1972]

I'm sure at least a dozen teams had interest, but when it came time to put pen to paper there were only two teams, which I have not been proven wrong.

that's factually wrong. only new jersey. carolina didn't sign him to a new contract.

 

[HyperX]

Chicago and Philadelphia had interest but traded for Jones and Ellis respectively before UFA opened up

They may have had interest but its been well documented that Hamilton's agent went to NJ, knowing they had a need and a fit.

Not often you hear about a player/players agent targeting a specific team with absolutely no relation to the player or his past. But that is what happened.

Carolina never stood a chance and no other team even spoke with Hamilton's camp (at least not extensively)

 

[Eggtimer]

Which was the point of the original post, that nobody else was offering 63 million for him. Unless that was the number Dougie and his agent said was enough to leave Carolina, it seemed like NJ was betting against themselves.

Someone from Hamilton’s camp said it was NJ interested and no one really else. I’m guessing the agent when he was allowed to talk to other teams established his asking price and NJ was the int one willing and able to go there ? Who knows . All I know is I am pumped for him to be in my team and he is exactly what we needed. He was the best player that was possibly available and filled a huge need and didn’t cost any assets besides salary. Yes there are better D out there and yes Hamilton is not a offensive dynamo plus a shut down defensive specialist but every okayed has his warts. He just has less than others while providing elite scoring and transition form the back end. People slam this contract and the player but how could you have got a better player without giving up massive prospects plus picks plus roster players ? No one is trading a true #1 D in their prime unless they have some warts too. It doesn’t happen . People compare Hamilton to Hedman and say the contract sucks … the Hedman contract was signed years ago and what would it take for them to trade Hedman? It would, be counter productive as it would gut any team to give up what it would take as the Lightnig would not move in in a million years unless it was a crazy stupid offer. Long story short. Eat shit if you think this is a bad signing

 

[Eggtimer]

They may have had interest but its been well documented that Hamilton's agent went to NJ, knowing they had a need and a fit.

Not often you hear about a player/players agent targeting a specific team with absolutely no relation to the player or his past. But that is what happened.

Carolina never stood a chance and no other team even spoke with Hamilton's camp (at least not extensively)

This is true . They targeted each other . Fitz had a plan in mind to go hard after Hamilton and Hamilton and his agent identified NJ as having a huge need for a player like him.

 

[NoName]

Hamilton is really good... but that is a lot of money and term to be handing out. Do worry it ends up being like the Tavares contract where it really hurts in a few years as the player pushes through his 30s. Those sort of Faustian deals only make sense for teams that think they can contend for a Cup immediately. That isn't New Jersey.

 

[Eggtimer]

Hamilton is really good... but that is a lot of money and term to be handing out. Do worry it ends up being like the Tavares contract where it really hurts in a few years as the player pushes through his 30s. Those sort of Faustian deals only make sense for teams that think they can contend for a Cup immediately. That isn't New Jersey.

I agree that the timing for NJ to go out and sign a player to this type of contract isn’t perfect but they couldn’t expect to wait until they are ready then hope a player as good as Hamilton that’s fills a massive need would be available at that exact same time they are wanting to acquire said player. They had to make a move when the opportunity arose. Yes it might be a year or two early but it doesn’t always work like that where it co-insides with your timeline perfectly . I’m hoping Hamilton is still an elite player when the Devils are ready to contend.

 

[HyperX]

Are you basing this on paper or from what you've actually seen?

Drew Doughty, John Klingberg, and Morgan Reilly are either Norris winners or Norris candidates, which seems to be thrown around in this thread a lot. Morrissey and Parako eat up big minutes for their teams, and would be great #3's for Carolina.

Ah yes.. Drew Doughty's Norris five seasons ago on a Cup contender lol

I would say Dougie is a top-10 defenseman. I think thats pretty fair and not very outlandish; hell, there was a vote on it on this website! He placed ninth I believe. And I didnt even get a vote!

 

[Eggtimer]

I think people also have to take into account that Hamilton is a RHD. Devils had a massive hole at RHD as the majority of their current roster and prospects are mainly LHD. I know it’s not a massive difference maker but it is still important when taking into account the value a player has to their team.
We had Severson Subban and … that’s about it for NHL level RHD.
Smith , Luke Hughes , Graves , Seigenthaler, Shakir , Bahl , Okhotyuk , etc etc all LHD . We have maybe three prospects in total that are RHD that even have a sniff at the NHL level.

 

[Guttersniped]

The Hockey Guy had Subban as NJ's worst contracts. He also did a video at the end of last season on his top 20 dmen in the league. In fairness, he had Hamilton at I believe 12th, but did put Slavin ahead of him though. But also in fairness, he had 15 of the 20 players I mentioned on my list in his top 20 as well (Including Doughty, Klingberg, Parayko, Theodore, Rielly, and Hughes, all of which I was lol'd/lmao'd at). Saying who's the best at anything is subjective, I just personally think there's 20 players that I would rather have in Carolina playing the role that Hamilton played here.

All of those points were fair. And for you and the rest of the Devils fans reading this, for the umpteenth time, I have no issues with Hamilton. I wish circumstances were different and he could've stayed in Carolina. You're getting a good player. I do think he's top 15 at the RHD position, but I do not think he's top 15 overall in the league. Even though he is on a divisional rival, I hope he does well for as long as possible. All I wanted to convey was for you guys to temper your expectations. We as Carolina fans have all seen what you've seen on paper, we are just giving you insight of what you might not be seeing on paper.

I’ve seen him play, I roughly know what expect, other than I not knowing who will be playing with him. I expect it will take a while to figure how to exactly make him work on the team, I’m assuming there will be growing pains there.

I just have little patience for lectures on how he’s overpaid that are based on absurd ideas of what his contract could possibly could have been. I got no time for people telling me about 6.5m Dougie Hamilton contracts.

And I don’t know how many times I have to explain that you seemingly introduced the list as a list of Official Number One Defensemen Better than Dougie Hamilton, explaining that true number ones played in all situations, and could be relied on defensively, and then you listed Theodore (who I said I was a fan of) but who is also a more offensive style defenseman. As is Morgan Reilly. As is Klingberg. (And Morrissey has been drowning in his big minutes ever since he lost Trouba as partner and the Jets have never really recovered from the loss of Buff. It will be interesting to see if the attempts to revamp the defense can turn it around for them.)

And it was just a weird list of guys you said you liked more. You would want Doughty more? What does that mean? You would take him, three years older, with his 6 years/11m deal? It was pointless, and that was what people were loling about. You can keep trying to defend it I guess, but I’m not sure why.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

I’ve seen him play, I roughly know what expect, other than I not knowing who will be playing with him. I expect it will take a while to figure how to exactly make him work on the team, I’m assuming there will be growing pains there.

I just have little patience for lectures on how he’s overpaid that are based on absurd ideas of what his contract could possibly could have been. I got no time for people telling me about 6.5m Dougie Hamilton contracts.

And I don’t know how many times I have to explain that you seemingly introduced the list as a list of Official Number One Defensemen Better than Dougie Hamilton, explaining that true number ones played in all situations, and could be relied on defensively, and then you listed Theodore (who I said I was a fan of) but who is also a more offensive style defenseman. As is Morgan Reilly. As is Klingberg. (And Morrissey has been drowning in his big minutes ever since he lost Trouba as partner and the Jets have never really recovered from the loss of Buff. It will be interesting to see if the attempts to revamp the defense can turn it around for them.)

And it was just a weird list of guys you said you liked more. You would want Doughty more? What does that mean? You would take him, three years older, with his 6 years/11m deal? It was pointless, and that was what people were loling about. You can keep trying to defend it I guess, but I’m not sure why.

I'm sorry you took simple math as a lecture. As stated, the 6.5 would've come with an extra year in term, and when you factor in state income taxes, Carolina was only asking Hamilton to take a few million less in total salary, which is a common practice amongst teams and players when it comes to building contenders. But like I said, I will not hate on any player to go somewhere for more money so more power to Hamilton. You can be stuck on the number 9 all you want, but it doesn't make what you say gospel. And your own fans are coming in here admitting that NJ overpaid for Hamilton, they just feel like it was worth having him on the roster, so I too don't need to be lectured about what his contract is.

And I would like for you to point to one post where I said that list I made was made up of official #1 defenders, because I did not say that. I said those were players I'd rather have as a 2/3 option over Hamilton. I don't know how many times I and pretty much every Hurricanes poster has said in this thread that Hamilton is not a #1, at least as not on a contender. Statistically, he has played minutes and in-game situations as a #2/#3 defender. He has not once ever been looked at as carrying our team as the #1 option, nor do I think he was in either Calgary or Boston. And I think it's funny that you mentioned how Morrissey has been drowning in his big minutes ever since he lost Trouba, but NJ's about to put Hamilton in pretty much the exact same predicament where he's going to be logging #1 minutes for the first time since at least since before being traded to Carolina, and he won't have a legit top 15 (lol) dman playing next to him, nor will he have the type of forward depth in front of him.

And yes, in a 2/3 role, I would absolutely take Doughty over Hamilton. I'm not just stuck on offensive stats, but Doughty did put up a near 50 pt scoring pace while playing on a lottery team with a weak offense. And he's still good at playing defense while not afraid of playing a physical game. I wouldn't want the salary of either player, but all things being equal I'd take Doughty. Can we at least agree that we should wait and see how Hamilton plays for NJ before we continue this debate? Because, and I'm really not bashing NJ, but on paper this is one of the lesser teams Hamilton will have played with at this point in his career. He's had the fortune of playing with other legit top 15 dmen pretty much his whole career, and that will be gone. All of the advanced stats that have been posted by NJ fans came from when Hamilton was on a top 10 team in the league in standings, offense, and power plays, and that will be gone. For the record, I do think Hamilton will remain at a 40-50 pt pace in NJ, but I think with the way he's going to be utilized it's going to come at a cost.

 

[Byrddog]

They will regret this contract in a couple years.