Nikita Kucherov vs. Evgeni Malkin

[KareemTrustfund]

So in 2016-17, Kucherov was 4th in the league in PPG (and outscored Malkin by 13 points) but only arguably in his prime. Kucherov, after this year, will have 5 career top 4 PPG finishes, Malkin has 7.

Kucherov was 27th in the league in scoring in his second NHL season (2014-15) despite only playing 14:57 per game and 2nd powerplay minutes. Lead the league in +/- and had an excellent postseason

Sure , it started 16/17. Btw, Malkin lead the NHL in points per 60 that year. People don’t care about that though.

NHL Scoring Leaders 2016-2017

NHL scoring leaders and demographics breakdown in the 2016-2017 season. Player stats, nationality and age distributions, draft rounds of players in the 2016-2017 NHL season.

www.quanthockey.com

 

[tfwnogf]

malkin was an unstoppable force in his prime, 36 point conn smythe trophy. it's not close.

 

[authentic]

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Also if Kucherov maintains the pace the rest of the way, he will have 2 Adjusted Seasons better than Malkin's best.

NHL & WHA Single Season Leaders and Records for Adjusted Points | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Howie Morenz (190), 2. Wayne Gretzky (170), 3. Cooney Weiland (168), 4. Wayne Gretzky (166), 5. Mario Lemieux (165), 6. Wayne Gretzky (163), 7. Frank Boucher (160), 8. Wayne Gretzky (159), 9. Connor McDavid (158), 10. Wayne Gretzky (156)

www.hockey-reference.com

People will say Malkin better "because he just is" but prime Kucherov looks better than prime Malkin. I dunno if he'll make up for career points (442 points with Malkin seven years older) or not, will just depend how Kucherov ages.

Right now, it's peak Kucherov, consistency in prime Kucherov, Malkin with a longevity edge but Kucherov still to be determined. After this season, Kucherov will have 7 Top 10 point finishes compared to 10 for Malkin. How Kucherov's next few seasons will determine if he can make up that gap.

Kucherov isn’t even as good as a player today like MacKinnon who is clearly worse than Malkin at his best. That’s not to say it is not close and the season he’s having isn’t amazing, but there’s no way in hell anyone with fully functioning eyes and an IQ above 80 is taking Kucherov over Malkin at their best.

malkin was an unstoppable force in his prime, 36 point conn smythe trophy. it's not close.

I mean at this point it’s at least close? Kucherov has 102 points in 59 games, but it’s clear to me he’s still not as good as Malkin was.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

@WarriorofTime

Btw, let’s take a look at some of Kucherovs prime years and Malkin’s “down years”. These years are not even considered dominant years by Malkin AT ALL but look at these numbers. I really fail to see how it’s all “Malkin is better because I say so”

These are Points per 60. Arguably an even better metric than PPG because it accounts for actual ice time. I don’t think Kucherov ever really PKd much to skew these)

19/20 3rd (ahead of Kucherov at 6th)

17/18 1st (Kucherov 6th)

16/17 1st (Kucherov 4th)

15/16 6th

13/14 1st


That’s three firsts. Three. In years people would never consider to be Malkin’s best. That’s how underrated this guy is.

 

[tfwnogf]

I mean at this point it’s at least close? Kucherov has 102 points in 59 games, but it’s clear to me he’s still not as good as Malkin was.

Point wise it is close, but in terms of skill and play style I take Malkin 100 times out of 101

 

[authentic]

Point wise it is close, but in terms of skill and play style I take Malkin 100 times out of 101

Malkin was certainly more dominant on a shift to shift basis at driving play, especially with weaker linemates, and more unstoppable at his best in the playoffs and as a goal scorer. Kucherov can really rack up the points though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's actually eerie how similar Kucherov's production is to Malkin's up to age 30. They're nearly identical:

-Kucherov: 703 games, 314 goals and 831 points
-Malkin: 706 games, 328 goals and 832 points

I'd still take Malkin because Malkin put up these numbers over a lower scoring era, but you can't ignore what Kucherov is doing.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Kucherov isn’t even as good as a player today like MacKinnon

He is definitely "as good" as MacKinnon.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[WarriorofTime]

These are Points per 60. Arguably an even better metric than PPG because it accounts for actual ice time.

Another metric where Kucherov's Even Strength Per 60 and his total points per 60 is better than Malkin's... But yes, Malkin with a 77.9 % Offensive Zone Start % did have a a high ESP/60.

Active NHL Players - Points per 60 Leaders

Active NHL players who hold the all-time record for the highest points per 60 in NHL. All-time points per 60 leaders for active NHL players.

www.quanthockey.com

If you want to say "idc, Kucherov can never be Malkin because that's just how it is" then I guess just say so rather than dancing around and saying "first Kucherov must have every accolade or more that Malkin has and only then will I entertain it as a discussion", every metric out there suggests there's not much different but some will read everything in the most Malkin-favorable tone as possible and the least Kucherov-favorable tone as possible.

 

[authentic]

He is definitely "as good" as MacKinnon.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

You watch hockey or just look at point totals?

Another metric where Kucherov's Even Strength Per 60 and his total points per 60 is better than Malkin's... But yes, Malkin with a 77.9 % Offensive Zone Start % did have a a high ESP/60.

Active NHL Players - Points per 60 Leaders

Active NHL players who hold the all-time record for the highest points per 60 in NHL. All-time points per 60 leaders for active NHL players.

www.quanthockey.com

If you want to say "idc, Kucherov can never be Malkin because that's just how it is" then I guess just say so rather than dancing around and saying "first Kucherov must have every accolade or more that Malkin has and only then will I entertain it as a discussion", every metric out there suggests there's not much different but some will read everything in the most Malkin-favorable tone as possible and the least Kucherov-favorable tone as possible.

Lol, now look at their linemates. You think starting in the offensive zone that often, for a center who isn’t even good at faceoffs, is a bigger advantage than playing with Hedman and Point 24/7 instead of 2nd and 3rd line players?

 

[WarriorofTime]

You watch hockey or just look at point totals?

That's not a response.

 

[GMR]

Who can drink more vodka though?

 

[authentic]

That's not a response.

You’re referring to your own post here I assume?

 

[Despote]

Kucherov is being overlooked because he dominates based on IQ rather than apparent physical tools.

It's not like Malkin provides much in terms of defensive play and is prone to taking a lot of dumb penalties. Point production is the way to rank these players and it's very close once you adjust to era.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Lol, now look at their linemates. You think starting in the offensive zone that often, for a center who isn’t even good at faceoffs, is a bigger advantage than playing with Hedman and Point 24/7 instead of 2nd and 3rd line players?

Kucherov in 2023-24 leads his team in points by 40. More assists than Point has points. You think he's getting carried by linemates or something.

 

[authentic]

Kucherov in 2023-24 leads his team in points by 40. More assists than Point has points. You think he's getting carried by linemates or something.

Guess again, I think you know what I’m saying

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Kucherov is being overlooked because he dominates based on IQ rather than apparent physical tools.

It's not like Malkin provides much in terms of defensive play and is prone to taking a lot of dumb penalties. Point production is the way to rank these players and it's very close once you adjust to era.

Malkin at his best led the league in takeaways. Kucherov is one of the worst forwards defensively in the last two decades, the guy is constantly cherrypicking. He's a combined +3 over the last 3 seasons, he was great at riding an excellent team though.

 

[authentic]

Kucherov is being overlooked because he dominates based on IQ rather than apparent physical tools.

It's not like Malkin provides much in terms of defensive play and is prone to taking a lot of dumb penalties. Point production is the way to rank these players and it's very close once you adjust to era.

Or because he’s just simply not quite as good as Malkin at their best.

Malkin would give you a more dominant performance playing with scrubs than Kucherov could playing with the best 5vs5 lineup in the world. How they go about it is irrelevant, except the style that Malkin played was more conducive to 5vs5 dominance with his ability to drive play and control the puck in the offensive zone.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Malkin at his best led the league in takeaways. Kucherov is one of the worst forwards defensively in the last two decades, the guy is constantly cherrypicking. He's a combined +3 over the last 3 seasons, he was great at riding an excellent team though.

Kucherov: Career +131
Malkin: Career +52

Malkin was great at riding an excellent team though.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Kucherov was great when his team could cover up for his weaknesses, his plus minus plummeted when they couldn't.

Like Malkin going -25 when the Penguins could no longer cover up for his weakness?

Cumulatively, -39 since the Penguins stopped being a dominant perennial Cup contending team.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Like Malkin going -25 when the Penguins could no longer cover up for his weakness?

Cumulatively, -39 since the Penguins stopped being a dominant perennial Cup contending team.

The Penguins never had a dominant team, they had two dominant players. Malkin declined in his 30s and after multiple knee injuries, pretty normal aging curve.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Penguins never had a dominant team, they had two dominant players.

like the 2023-24 Lightning...

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Malkin AINEC

 

[wetcoast]

He is definitely "as good" as MacKinnon.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

So he scores at a slightly higher rate, exactly a 0.04 which is statistically insignificant really.

Mack also has 60 more ESP in the timeframe so that tips the scales for me and is more repeatable in other settings.

Kuch has been part of an excellent quad PP for a while now.

 

[Regal]

Another metric where Kucherov's Even Strength Per 60 and his total points per 60 is better than Malkin's... But yes, Malkin with a 77.9 % Offensive Zone Start % did have a a high ESP/60.

Active NHL Players - Points per 60 Leaders

Active NHL players who hold the all-time record for the highest points per 60 in NHL. All-time points per 60 leaders for active NHL players.

www.quanthockey.com

If you want to say "idc, Kucherov can never be Malkin because that's just how it is" then I guess just say so rather than dancing around and saying "first Kucherov must have every accolade or more that Malkin has and only then will I entertain it as a discussion", every metric out there suggests there's not much different but some will read everything in the most Malkin-favorable tone as possible and the least Kucherov-favorable tone as possible.

We’ve seen enough years of both players to the point that I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that one player is better than the other and further accomplishments aren’t going to change that. Kucherov might go down as the greater resume but I don’t believe he’s a better player, and I doubt he’ll do anything to change that