Nikita Kucherov vs. Evgeni Malkin

[KareemTrustfund]

He only has one top ten point finish since 2011-12.

Cool. Even more of a feather in his hat he was able to do all he’s done with those injury issues.

Interested to hear where you’d rank Kane among Kucherov and Malkin

 

[WarriorofTime]

Cool. Even more of a feather in his hat he was able to do all he’s done with those injury issues.

Interested to hear where you’d rank Kane among Kucherov and Malkin

Kane is not in the poll

 

[WarriorofTime]

You know very well that doesn't tell the whole story due to injuries.

Why would I give him so much credit for missing games?

 

[Felidae]

Why would I give him so much credit for missing games?

You tried to pass his prime off as short. You failed to clarify whether you thought it was short due to actual ability or external factors like injuries at play, and you sort of implied at the former when you only bring up point finishes

Another way of looking at his PPG finishes is that when he was healthy, he was undeniably one of the best players in the game

No one is saying his PPG pace would be maintained exactly as it is had he played full seasons.

But when a player is continuously having high PPG placements year after year, for a whole decade, It stops being an accident, and based on his track record I think it's pretty likely he at the very least stays top 10 in points if he plays those seasons out. That's probably being a bit safe too.

It certainly shows more context than mere point finishes in this instance.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

Kane is not in the poll

Post in thread 'Kane vs Kucherov'
Kane vs Kucherov

I just took a mosey over here and looked at some of your points for Kane over Kuch. You’re arguments for Kane over Kucherov are that he had a better start with the PPG seasons , he has more raw point totals and he had lesser linemates. But I guess these are only good arguments for Kane and not Malkin.

Malkin has way more points than Kucherov , more PPG seasons by the same age and WAY worse linemates. By your own arguments here, you should be all for Geno.

 

[geebster]

Kucherov is absolutely amazing and underrated in the league right now, but Malkin was undoubtedly the best player in the world at times. When Crosby went down the guy dominated. Let's not forget how great a superstar Malkin was.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Post in thread 'Kane vs Kucherov'

Referencing 2.5 year old posts now?

 

[Rschmitz]

Intellectually dishonest to say that Kucherov is the only one who has benefitted from talented line mates or act like he hasn’t been deserving of at least one CS.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Intellectually dishonest to say that Kucherov is the only one who has benefitted from talented line mates or act like he hasn’t been deserving of at least one CS.

The only one? There's only two players in this poll and he has certainly benefitted more from his teammates on the ice than Malkin.

Which Conn Smythe did he deserve? There's only one winner.

 

[sdf]

Malkin at his absolute peak was nasty.

5 years (2008-12)
3 - 1st team selections
2 - Art Ross
1 - Hart trophy
1 - Conn Smythe

Артроз? Omg, he pulled off so great career with such horrible desease, what a hero he is

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Kuch has to prove he can win in a normal season.

He still good obviously I just don't see him being close to Malkin

 

[Nadal On Clay]

You can’t vote for Kucherov if you’ve watched Malkin in the 2009 playoffs or the 2012 regular season. You just can’t. People voting Kucherov either weren’t watching during that time/simply looking at raw numbers or just don’t remember.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Post in thread 'Kane vs Kucherov'
Kane vs Kucherov

I just took a mosey over here and looked at some of your points for Kane over Kuch. You’re arguments for Kane over Kucherov are that he had a better start with the PPG seasons , he has more raw point totals and he had lesser linemates. But I guess these are only good arguments for Kane and not Malkin.

Malkin has way more points than Kucherov , more PPG seasons by the same age and WAY worse linemates. By your own arguments here, you should be all for Geno.

He has a weird bias against Pens players. Just let him be I guess.

 

[LightningStorm]

Kuch also can't win in non COVID playoff years.

Ah, now I get why we didn't 3 peat in 2022. It wasn't that we lost our entire 3rd line after our B2B cups, or Brayden Point (our leading goal scorer both postseasons) got injured in R1 and never returned (plus the Avs were great in their own right). No, us falling a series short of 3-peating was all because it was a full season.

Which Conn Smythe did he deserve? There's only one winner.

Kuch definitely has 2 CS worthy performances, but nothing like 2009 Malkin. In fact, I think his 2021 postseason and 2009 Crosby are 2 that rank high in terms of non CS winning playoffs.

 

[Rschmitz]

The only one? There's only two players in this poll and he has certainly benefitted more from his teammates on the ice than Malkin.

Which Conn Smythe did he deserve? There's only one winner.

So Malkins 09 playoffs where he scored 36 points is supposed to be one of the best performances of all time but Kucherovs 34 and 32 point postseasons aren’t deserving of a CS? Deserving and winning are two separate things you know, it’s not the Ross that has a clear winner.

Malkin didn’t benefit from Crosby taking all of the top line matchups? Malkin didn’t play with Gonchar or Letang or Kessel or Neal or Crosby? Stop

 

[GoldenKnight]

Malkin didn’t play with Gonchar or Letang or Kessel or Neal or Crosby? Stop

I take your point, but let's look at the flipside. Who spent time with the worse linemates more frequently during their prime years?

Prime Malkin played with guys like Eric Tangradi, Chuck Kobasew, Tyler Kennedy, the list goes on.

I don't see anyone like that on Tampa's top line. Being on the second line can be hard work at times.

 

[Rschmitz]

I take your point, but let's look at the flipside. Who spent time with the worse linemates more frequently during their prime years?

Prime Malkin played with guys like Eric Tangradi, Chuck Kobasew, Tyler Kennedy, the list goes on.

I don't see anyone like that on Tampa's top line. Being on the second line can be hard work at times.

Point taken, but Kucherov is just now entering his prime years.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

So Malkins 09 playoffs where he scored 36 points is supposed to be one of the best performances of all time but Kucherovs 34 and 32 point postseasons aren’t deserving of a CS? Deserving and winning are two separate things you know, it’s not the Ross that has a clear winner.

Malkin didn’t benefit from Crosby taking all of the top line matchups? Malkin didn’t play with Gonchar or Letang or Kessel or Neal or Crosby? Stop

Another classic example of somebody who only looks at point totals. The scoring climate was much more difficult in before 2017-18. It just was.

So not only was Malkin’s 36 not equaled by Kucherov, he couldn’t do it in an era where it should be vastly easier. Jake Guentzel scored 21 in 12 in 2018, Mackinnon would have paced to get around it as well in 2020. Both on pace to exceed 36. Kucherov couldn’t do It. And it’s not a knock. Sid in 2009 is more impressive than Kucherov in 2020 and 2021

So no, it’s not the same. Not to say it’s not impressive because it is. But we are comparing it to one of the best runs of all time.

Also , again, Malkin ALWAYS puts up more points on the first line. He would have exceeded 40 most likely. Show me any player who produces more when he gets moved down the lineup. Doesn’t happen. I don’t even know why people argue this point.

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s a lot closer than people seem to think it is in this thread especially if Kucherov wins the Ross this year.

Point taken, but Kucherov is just now entering his prime years.

Kucherov is not just now entering his prime years lol. He’s on the cusp of leaving them.

 

[olli]

Dude have you heard of context? When has Kuch carried a below average roster and won a Hart and Art Ross? When has Kuch ever had a below top 5 roster? Who entered the NHL as a true rookie and dominated vs. needed multiple more years of development?

One guy is a generational player who ran into Ovi and Crosby the other is a guy who has 5 contemporaries

This year kuch is carrying a roster that is far below top 5

 

[Cursed Lemon]

If you want to know what Kucherov can do with a not-Cup-contending team...well, you're seeing it.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Ah, now I get why we didn't 3 peat in 2022. It wasn't that we lost our entire 3rd line after our B2B cups, or Brayden Point (our leading goal scorer both postseasons) got injured in R1 and never returned (plus the Avs were great in their own right). No, us falling a series short of 3-peating was all because it was a full season.

Kuch definitely has 2 CS worthy performances, but nothing like 2009 Malkin. In fact, I think his 2021 postseason and 2009 Crosby are 2 that rank high in terms of non CS winning playoffs.

Not so much the length of the season, lockout shortened ones are fine.

More the massive changes done to the playoff format, ridiculous regular season divisions, no attendance.

Tampa Bay has disappointed before COVID and they are coming up short after COVID.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Better career - Kucherov
Better player - Malkin

Malkin got robbed of hardware by injuries

 

[sdf]

Malkin is the type of players who making actually nice plays that you understands why he is a star, kucherov and panarin is the type of ones which just putting up f***ing points without do anithing special

 

[Master P]

Malkin is the type of players who making actually nice plays that you understands why he is a star, kucherov and panarin is the type of ones which just putting up f***ing points without do anithing special

Bait used to be believable.

Can't speak for Panarin but saying Kucherov doesn't do anything special is laughably absurd