NHL TV Ratings and Revenue

[Whiplash27]

Buffalo vs. Ottawa. I have a feeling that the ratings are going to be brutal. Put it this way, Canada vs. Almost Canada. I don't think many people in the States are gonna care.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Buffalo vs. Ottawa. I have a feeling that the ratings are going to be brutal. Put it this way, Canada vs. Almost Canada. I don't think many people in the States are gonna care.

I'm sure we will find out.

One of the reasons a US vs. CDN team series will almost always have poorer ratings in the USA is simply that you've got one, not two, US NHL market's team on TV and the Canadian audience for the Canadian NHL market's team is not included in the rating figure. And in the USA in particular the local audiences for a team that is playing make up a large portion of the total national audience since there isn't much national interest anyway. Do you really think casual fans in Texas or Montana or Ohio or the state of Washington would be much more interested or excited in watching a Thrashers vs. Coyotes series than, say, a Canadiens vs Bruins series? Interesting question.

A second thought, Buffalo's local ratings are so good compared to most USA NHL markets that they could well compensate in part for only having one USA team in the series.

Bottom line: if you add the audiences in Canada and the USA watching a Buffalo vs Ottawa series, you'll likely get a much larger TV audience for the series than a series between two non-traditional teams because there is a greater interest in the sport of hockey in places like Buffalo and Ottawa.

GHOST

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I remember hearing about how ratings would be outstanding if the Yankees ad Mets both got to the World Series in 2000.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml

They dropped over 20% from the prior year's 16.0 to that year's 12.4.

And 2002, when Anaheim (Los Angeles) and San Francisco met up? Ratings fell from 15.7 to 11.9, or a drop of 24.2%. Granted, ratings barely topped 10 and 11 the last 2 years (insert your own favorite anti-baseball comment here, referencing declining TV ratings as de facto proof) but when series have popped up that were supposedly good for national RV ratings, apparently the rest of the nation tuned out relative to the prior year.

So saying that any particular series would be great for ratings is dicey at best; what's probably more accurate to say is that it would be better if the sport could gain a stronger national base from which to build ratings, regardless of what markets anyone wants to talk about being in or out of the NHL.

 

[Whiplash27]

If San Jose manages to come back, a Anaheim/San Jose series would be great for California. Other than that, the teams left in the playoffs won't add much to the NHL's fanbase. I think Anaheim or San Jose winning it all would have the best positive effect on growing fanbases.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

If San Jose manages to come back, a Anaheim/San Jose series would be great for California. Other than that, the teams left in the playoffs won't add much to the NHL's fanbase. I think Anaheim or San Jose winning it all would have the best positive effect on growing fanbases.

Agreed.

A Detroit vs Buffalo or Ottawa finals would be interesting and cause considerable regional interest, although it wouldn't do much for increasing the fanbase elsewhere.

GHOST

 

[Eichel 9]

Some interesting notes from The Buffalo News today:

The Buffalo area also boosts Versus’ non-Sabres hockey coverage. Buffalo had a 2.8 rating for the April 26 Detroit- San Jose game, making it second in the country behind only Detroit (7.3). Buffalo even beat the San Jose market, which averaged a 1.9.

Local ratings listed:

Buffalo G1: 25.3
Buffalo G3: 29.8
Buffalo G4: 24.8
NYC G1: 1.1
NYC G2: 1.8
NYC G4: 1.5
Detroit G1: 7.3
San Jose G1: 1.9

I think it's pretty crazy that Buffalo had a 2.8 rating for San Jose/Detroit game. That's just awesome.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

TV Ratings going south -- Florida Panthers, etc.

This December 2006 article may have been posted here at some point. But in case it hasn't been, I'll link it below.

It seems that the Panthers had a 0.33 share of the TV audience for the season as of December. That would mean that of all the people watching TV in the Panthers' home market at the time the game was broadcast 1 in 300 viewers were watching the hockey game:

"It's some of the other cities where the news is exceptionally disturbing. Take Florida, for example, where there was the expectation of a 1.0 share for the Panthers on FSN Florida and it came in down a whopping 77 per cent."

Some other interesting comments on the data here:

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=4becf13b-d02a-45f2-b58e-2cb9e263c496

GHOST

 

[Timmy]

This December 2006 article may have been posted here at some point. But in case it hasn't been, I'll link it below.

It seems that the Panthers had a 0.33 share of the TV audience for the season as of December. That would mean that of all the people watching TV in the Panthers' home market at the time the game was broadcast 1 in 300 viewers were watching the hockey game:

"It's some of the other cities where the news is exceptionally disturbing. Take Florida, for example, where there was the expectation of a 1.0 share for the Panthers on FSN Florida and it came in down a whopping 77 per cent."

Some other interesting comments on the data here:

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/columnists/story.html?id=4becf13b-d02a-45f2-b58e-2cb9e263c496

GHOST

Tony....Tony, is that you?



Gollum's a bigger idiot than Strachan, and that sort of achievement doesn't come without years of hard work.


He hates (and I mean, with a passion), the BoG, Bettman, Florida, Pheonix, the Canucks management, any GM who won't pay a player a penny over seven million dollars, etc etc etc.


Find another source -- Gollum's an idiot.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Oh gee, but we're told by all the apologists that it's important for the NHL to be in big markets like Atlanta. Guess they forget maybe it's more important to be in a market where people actually give a **** about the sport... because 8000 house holds for a playoff game.... that's just incredibly weak.

If averaging around 15K and having even fewer people watching on TV is all you need, you seriously can't tell me Winnipeg couldn't support a franchise, in fact Winnipeg would would draw way bigger TV numbers than Atlanta and there's no doubt about that.

Atlanta announced their attendance at around 16.3K this year according to ESPN, although NHL leaked data indicates they were giving away a league-leading 2,827 comp tickets per game at season mid-point and had one of the lowest gate receipts per game at under USD 500,000 per game, less than half of what the Edmonton Oilers brought in and less than a third of the Maple Leafs' gate receipts. BTW, the Oilers averaged an audience of 157,000 for their regular season broadcasts (see a link somewhere in this thread). You can see some of the data on NHL gate receipts here if you are interested:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/v5/content/pdf/NHLweb.pdf

GHOST

 

[Randall Graves*]

I'd like to highlight that it is not the case in all US markets as you mention. There are plenty of markets where hockey is very noticable on the sports landscape. Most notably Minnesota, Detroit, Colorado, Buffalo, Philly, Pittsburgh and Boston. I realize that Boston is not a Bruins hotbed, but there is a strong interest in the sport of hockey in Massachusettes, much beyond a 'niche' sport level.
There are also emerging areas such as San Jose, Dallas, Tampa Bay, and Columbus where I really think the sport has a strong possibility of growing passed the 'niche' status. Of course there are the markets where it seems hopeless such as New Jersey, Anaheim, Florida, Washington DC, and Atlanta.
There are also the places where it once was more than a niche sport and has fallen into obscurity such as New York, St Louis, and Los Angeles.
Finally, if you take a look at the areas without an NHL team and 99.9 percent of them have relatively no interest at all in hockey.
So - that being said the NHL finds itself in a situation where it borders being a niche sport and being a part of the "big 4". It seems to be losing more traction than it is gaining unfortunantley so sooner or later it will completely fall of the main stream sporting landscape like the MLS or pro lacrosse league...but we can hope it doesnt reach that.

Hockey isn't hopeless in Anaheim, it's like the majority of US based markets, if you win people will come. They've sold out their last 30 or so games, and are looking at a season ticket base nearing 14,000 perhaps more and are looking at the chance of turning a profit by next season from what i've heard..

 

[Alpine]

Oh my, hockey is indeed in dire straits... We better have two huge US markets in the finals or the future of hockey will take decades to recover.
I know right now most of the over 14,000 indoor rinks in Canada are retro-fitting to suit another game.
Yawn.....

 

[xDerekRx]

Overnight ratings

Sabres/Rangers Sunday 1.4
Wings/Sharks Sat 1.4

NHL ratings are up slightly while NBA ratings have fallen across the board all playoffs.


Detroit and Buffalo would clearly draw the highest US ratings for the playoff games.

 

[jsginsocal]

Hockey isn't hopeless in Anaheim, it's like the majority of US based markets, if you win people will come. They've sold out their last 30 or so games, and are looking at a season ticket base nearing 14,000 perhaps more and are looking at the chance of turning a profit by next season from what i've heard..

That is excellent news. I have beening going to 8 - 10 Ducks games a season since I relocated here from Colorado. I've definitely noticed an improvement in fan support.
By hopeless I only meant that it doesn't seem like the Ducks will ever gain enough traction to be considered a big player in the southern Cali sports landscape. The new owners are doing an excellent job and it exciting to see how good management can really turn a franchise around. That would be unbelievable to have 14,000 season ticket holders - especially considering they hardly average more than that in terms of tv audience for each game. Again, goes to show you what a great sport hockey is to watch in person and is a testament to a franchise being run correctly. With improvements like that its only a matter of time before the local tv ratings are more respectable.

Go Ducks!

 

[jsginsocal]

Overnight ratings

Sabres/Rangers Sunday 1.4
Wings/Sharks Sat 1.4

NHL ratings are up slightly while NBA ratings have fallen across the board all playoffs.


Detroit and Buffalo would clearly draw the highest US ratings for the playoff games.

Any idea what the numbers were for the NBA playoffs? I am assuming 3. something?

 

[MLH]

The local rating in NYC for the New Jersey Nets game 1 of the second round did a 3.5. The Rangers, in an elimination game, drew a 2.2 in NYC.

I think we can officially put the "Rangers presence is good for ratings" argument to bed.

 

[jsginsocal]

The local rating in NYC for the New Jersey Nets game 1 of the second round did a 3.5. The Rangers, in an elimination game, drew a 2.2 in NYC.

I think we can officially put the "Rangers presence is good for ratings" argument to bed.

2.2 is better than a lot of markets, and 2.2 of 18 million is nearly half a million people tuning in. I'd say that makes it good for ratings...

 

[MAROONSRoad]

2.2 is better than a lot of markets, and 2.2 of 18 million is nearly half a million people tuning in. I'd say that makes it good for ratings...

That 2.2 rating is for households of which the NYC DMA has 7,366,950 as of January 1, 2007. A 2.2 rating equates to 162,073 households. How that equates to individual viewers in the NYC market I'm not sure.

Below I repost Nielsen DMA estimates:

Nielsen Media Research Local Market Universe Estimates

Estimates as of January 1, 2007 and used throughout the 2006-2007 television season

Effective September 23, 2006

RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US

RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US
1 New York 7,366,950 6.616
2 Los Angeles 5,611,110 5.039
3 Chicago 3,455,020 3.103
4 Philadelphia 2,941,450 2.642
5 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,383,570 2.141
6 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,378,660 2.136
7 Boston (Manchester) 2,372,030 2.130
8 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,272,120 2.041
9 Atlanta 2,205,510 1.981

11 Detroit 1,938,320 1.741
12 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,755,750 1.577
13 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,725,000 1.549

15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,678,430 1.507
16 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,538,620 1.382

18 Denver 1,431,910 1.286

21 St. Louis 1,228,980 1.104
22 Pittsburgh 1,163,150 1.045

29 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 1,006,330 0.904
30 Nashville 944,100 0.848

32 Columbus, OH 898,030 0.807

49 Buffalo 639,990 0.575

Here are figures for Canadian City DMA Universe Estimates of TV homes from Neilson Media Research:

Toronto/Hamiltion 2,597,000
Vancouver 1,329,000
Calgary 551,000

I couldn't find data on Montreal, Ottawa or Edmonton.

http://www.nielsenmedia.ca/

GHOST

 

[MLH]

2.2 is better than a lot of markets, and 2.2 of 18 million is nearly half a million people tuning in. I'd say that makes it good for ratings...

A 2.2 is slightly more than 160,000 households. That's the most households that have tuned in the entire series. That's lower than a tiny city like Buffalo. The Rangers don't drive ratings.

 

[jsginsocal]

A 2.2 is slightly more than 160,000 households. That's the most households that have tuned in the entire series. That's lower than a tiny city like Buffalo. The Rangers don't drive ratings.

I agree that the Rangers don't drive the ratings. The point is the potential - NYC is a huge market that actually has a sniff of an interest in the Rangers as evidenced by the 2.2 rating. Other huge markets like Southern California, Northern California, etc... don't even have that potential right now. I mean - while I hope I am wrong - I doubt Anaheim would pull in a 1.0 local rating in the Stanley Cup finals...

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

Not that it's really a fair comparison since the Warriors are *the* story in the NBA, but...

"Twin telecasts of Game4 against the Mavericks on Sunday night drew a combined local TV rating of 11.2, which is nothing short of spectacular on the Bay Area sports scene. TNT drew a 6.8; Fox Sports Net Bay Area drew a 4.4"

http://www.mercurynews.com/columns/ci_5791065

The Sharks Game 1 drew a 1.8.

I'm not sure why it would be considered "unfair"... it's just a comparison of relative interest in basketball vs hockey in the Bay Area. And it doesn't appear that it took until Game 4 for the Warriors to get huge ratings. They seem to have gotten them from the time the playoffs started (when they were basically considered to have no chance to win the series):

http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/buzz/2007/05/04/warriors-ratings-another-incredible-new-high/

Game 1 (on FSN and TNT): Combined 8.0.
Game 2 (TNT): 7.2.
Game 3 (ESPN): 7.0.
Game 4 (on FSN and TNT): Combined 11.2.
Game 5 (TNT): 11.0.
Game 6 (TNT): 12.3.

I didn't see full-series numbers for the Sharks, but I assume that 1.8 they drew for the opening of the second round was reasonably representative of the rest of the series? (And that their first-round series was possibly even lower?)


http://www.mercurynews.com/sharksheadlines/ci_5836470

Tonight the Sharks start at 6, the Warriors at 7:30. HP Pavilion will be sold out, but hockey in most parts will be an afterthought to this event that's part basketball, part cultural touchstone and legally required viewing for all who lay claim to the Bay Area.

We'd say the Sharks are on the back burner, except the Warriors are using all four burners, the oven, the microwave, the grill, the toaster and the Crock-Pot.

 

[jsginsocal]

What!?! Californians somehow manage to care less about hockey than the rest of the country! Woulda never guessed....

Get me outta here (CA), I need to find some hockey fans.

 

[Namso]

I'm not sure why it would be considered "unfair"... it's just a comparison of relative interest in basketball vs hockey in the Bay Area. And it doesn't appear that it took until Game 4 for the Warriors to get huge ratings. They seem to have gotten them from the time the playoffs started (when they were basically considered to have no chance to win the series):

its unfair because this is the first time the warriors are in the playoffs in like 13/14 years AND they upset the championship favorite mavericks.

 

[MLH]

Game 6: 32.6 Rating in Buffalo

The Sabres’ clinching victory on Sunday afternoon scored a 32.6 rating and 60 share on WGRZ-TV, which was 2.6 points higher than the Sabres overtime loss in Game Three of the series from Madison Square Garden.

The 60 share is eye-opening. Al Trautwig, the Rangers postgame host on MSG, told Sabres General Manager Darcy Regier Sunday afternoon that the Sabres get a 40 share for TV games, which he called incredible for hockey. A 60 share is beyond incredible for hockey. The first NBC game in the series got shares in the 50s and 60s in Buffalo. The 60 share means that 60 percent of the sets in use in Buffalo on Sunday afternoon were watching the game.

Speaking of incredible, the Sabres’ miracle finish Friday only averaged a 9.5 rating on MSG. That’s about 30 percent of what Channel 2 had for Game Six, which gives MSG further ammunition for the theory that its ratings are severely underreported.

http://www.buffalonews.com/159/story/71056.html?imw=Y

A 60 share is pretty incredible for any programming, nonetheless the NHL.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

its unfair because this is the first time the warriors are in the playoffs in like 13/14 years AND they upset the championship favorite mavericks.

The first part of that might have some validity (though the sheer size of the gap between the numbers suggests that there's much more to the difference than just a playoff drought). For the second part, did you even read what I (or others) wrote? These numbers were not only present before the upset, they were present from the very start of the series.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

http://www.buffalonews.com/159/story/71056.html?imw=Y

A 60 share is pretty incredible for any programming, nonetheless the NHL.

Which is why I consider Buffalo the top US hockey market when it comes to interest level among the overall population. That share is even more incredible because it occurred in the second round. Denver hit a share of 65, but it was during the Finals (against the Devils), not the second round. Shares this high are Superbowl-type numbers.