OT: NHL All-Time Draft

[kliq]

I like Iyer for the most part, but hes absolutely one of those smartest in the room, advanced stats, go against the norm type of guys. I think he sometimes forgets hockey isnt played on a spreadsheet. Theres no argument for anyone other than Grezky here

Its also more entertaining when people have different opinions. Sometimes I think things like that are pre planned just so they can debate.

 

[Syckle78]

Put Howe in the 80's with 82-84 game seasons and this wouldn't be a contest. He absolutely destroys Wayne in 2 out of 3 zones and hangs with him offensively. Hell I'd take Orr over Gretzky too if I'm building a team.

 

[Retire91]

As solid as the case is closed for Gretzky I still choose Roy. You can't replace the best forward of all time but in an all time draft there are still enough forwards to put together a timeless roster. I want that back stop that night in night out can steal a game and a playoff series. The guys entire career was in his prime. He only missed the playoffs once and even in his last season he put up 35 wins.

I get why people want Gretzky but I am not hearing it because Roy's stanley cup rings are plugging my ears.

 

[Bench]

As solid as the case is closed for Gretzky I still choose Roy. You can't replace the best forward of all time but in an all time draft there are still enough forwards to put together a timeless roster. I want that back stop that night in night out can steal a game and a playoff series. The guys entire career was in his prime. He only missed the playoffs once and even in his last season he put up 35 wins.

I get why people want Gretzky but I am not hearing it because Roy's stanley cup rings are plugging my ears.

How the hell are you picking Roy over Hasek, though.

Roy bailed on the Canadians the second he wasn't on a stacked roster and looked mortal. Meanwhile Hasek flopped his way through the entire playoffs with a mediocre Buffalo team on his back and almost beat a juggernaut Stars team for the Cup.

 

[kliq]

How the hell are you picking Roy over Hasek, though.

Roy bailed on the Canadians the second he wasn't on a stacked roster and looked mortal. Meanwhile Hasek flopped his way through the entire playoffs with a mediocre Buffalo team on his back and almost beat a juggernaut Stars team for the Cup.

Agreed. Hasek in his prime IMO was the best goaltender that ever lived. Had he been on the Devils, Wings, Stars or Avs in the 90's just imagine how many cups he would have.

 

[UnSandvich]

As solid as the case is closed for Gretzky I still choose Roy. You can't replace the best forward of all time but in an all time draft there are still enough forwards to put together a timeless roster. I want that back stop that night in night out can steal a game and a playoff series. The guys entire career was in his prime. He only missed the playoffs once and even in his last season he put up 35 wins.

I get why people want Gretzky but I am not hearing it because Roy's stanley cup rings are plugging my ears.

To be clear (and I should've clarified this, but forgot), it's not a Full draft. It's 1 round, largely because I want to actually finish it before September lol

 

[kliq]

As solid as the case is closed for Gretzky I still choose Roy. You can't replace the best forward of all time but in an all time draft there are still enough forwards to put together a timeless roster. I want that back stop that night in night out can steal a game and a playoff series. The guys entire career was in his prime. He only missed the playoffs once and even in his last season he put up 35 wins.

I get why people want Gretzky but I am not hearing it because Roy's stanley cup rings are plugging my ears.

I dont agree, but I love the throwback!

 

[newfy]

Its also more entertaining when people have different opinions. Sometimes I think things like that are pre planned just so they can debate.

That could definitely be part of it but I also get that vibe from him on twitter as well. Hes really good with advanced stats and is a really good twitter follow but he totally strikes me as a guy who wants the games played on a spreadsheet. This isnt a one time thing for him.

Put Howe in the 80's with 82-84 game seasons and this wouldn't be a contest. He absolutely destroys Wayne in 2 out of 3 zones and hangs with him offensively. Hell I'd take Orr over Gretzky too if I'm building a team.

I'm the biggest Howe fan going but not sure he hangs offensively with Gretzky. Howe should be the second forward gone

 

[Syckle78]

That could definitely be part of it but I also get that vibe from him on twitter as well. Hes really good with advanced stats and is a really good twitter follow but he totally strikes me as a guy who wants the games played on a spreadsheet. This isnt a one time thing for him.



I'm the biggest Howe fan going but not sure he hangs offensively with Gretzky. Howe should be the second forward gone

Look at his career totals and then look at all the games he missed in his prime/peak because of shorter seasons and scoring era. He doesn't have the gaudy yearly numbers as Wayne but I think it';s fair to surmise he would be up there. If Yzerman put up 155 playing with nobodies what would Gordie have put up?

 

[kliq]

That could definitely be part of it but I also get that vibe from him on twitter as well. Hes really good with advanced stats and is a really good twitter follow but he totally strikes me as a guy who wants the games played on a spreadsheet. This isnt a one time thing for him.



I'm the biggest Howe fan going but not sure he hangs offensively with Gretzky. Howe should be the second forward gone

Very possible, I don't actually know him to be honest. I based those comments off of shows like First Take.

Howe is great, no doubt. But I think Mario sometimes gets the overlooked because he played at the same time of Gretzky, and because he missed so much times which effected his total. I would go Gretzky-Lemieux-Howe. Its also tough to judge Howe because most of us never actually saw him play.

 

[Syckle78]

Howe is 1st in adjusted goals, second in adjusted assists and 2nd in adjusted points. He's undeniably more well rounded than Gretzky and Mario.

 

[14ari13]

Very possible, I don't actually know him to be honest. I based those comments off of shows like First Take.

Howe is great, no doubt. But I think Mario sometimes gets the overlooked because he played at the same time of Gretzky, and because he missed so much times which effected his total. I would go Gretzky-Lemieux-Howe. Its also tough to judge Howe because most of us never actually saw him play.

Very few have seen Howe play.


From what I have heard and read, Howe.

From what I have seen, Hasek.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

That could definitely be part of it but I also get that vibe from him on twitter as well. Hes really good with advanced stats and is a really good twitter follow but he totally strikes me as a guy who wants the games played on a spreadsheet. This isnt a one time thing for him.



I'm the biggest Howe fan going but not sure he hangs offensively with Gretzky. Howe should be the second forward gone

Cannot take Howe over super Mario. I think he is in that next forward spot probably after Orr and maybe Hasek go. So 4 or 5 on Howe.

My real contention in this exercise will be after we exit that top five, a team building block that brings excellence in Lidstrom should then enter that picture but watch on the mains as other d-man and guys pass him. Hardly any guys if any have ever controlled the tempo of the game like Lidstrom. I understand him maybe not being a fixture in top 10 arguments, but when building a team he should absolutely be a top 10 all-time player as a building block.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Didn't know they did it on the Athletic. Did this a couple years ago with some friends, and came across it in facebook memories lol

It was just the Wings podcast that put the question out at the end of one of their recent episodes.

 

[UnSandvich]

It was just the Wings podcast that put the question out at the end of one of their recent episodes.

Ah, gotcha gotcha

 

[Snuggs]

Gretzky!?!?!?!?!

No one has to try and be the smartest guy in the room when the best player ever is on the board!

Only thing that could of made those 90's teams even better is if we actually picked up Gretzky from the Blues instead of him joining the Rangers. To be real frank Gretzky should of maybe even done it, he's already great, the greatest, but the extended number he'd of put up with likely still the two extra stanley cups! Idk. Could of been really something.

 

[newfy]

Howe is 1st in adjusted goals, second in adjusted assists and 2nd in adjusted points. He's undeniably more well rounded than Gretzky and Mario.

In a lot more games. Gretzkys numbers are just untouchable and he did it for long enough, its a homerish idea that Howe should be above him.

Cannot take Howe over super Mario. I think he is in that next forward spot probably after Orr and maybe Hasek go. So 4 or 5 on Howe.

My real contention in this exercise will be after we exit that top five, a team building block that brings excellence in Lidstrom should then enter that picture but watch on the mains as other d-man and guys pass him. Hardly any guys if any have ever controlled the tempo of the game like Lidstrom. I understand him maybe not being a fixture in top 10 arguments, but when building a team he should absolutely be a top 10 all-time player as a building block.

You absolutely can and theres really well reasoned posts on the history of hockey section why. At his offensive peak, Howe was outscoring his competition comparable to what Lemieux did over people not named Gretzky when you adjust for scoring. There might be an edge to Lemeux in peak scoring but its a small edge in reality and part of it is made up for in defensive play and physicality. But with Howe you get toughness, defensive play and the best longevity a career has ever seen. Theyre close enough that Howes slightly lower peak is blown away by the fact that he was elite for 20 years. There is a better argument for Howe over Mario than there is for Mario over Howe when you get past the big numbers Lemieux put up due to the era he played in. Howes prime was in a lower scoring era than the dead puck era so raw numbers dont help at all. I would say a single season peak, theyre close (53 for Howe was insane). Lemeiux probably has the best 3 year peak and after that its all Howe.

The number one reason to pick Howe? During his peak he basically missed 0 games, pretty sure he didnt miss a game during 6 years where he won the art ross. Lemeiux was sitting out back to back games because he didnt train.

Wayne has a better offensive peak than both and more than enough longevity to make him a clear number one. Mario doesnt have that. And no, Howe is clearly ahead of Hasek as well.

 

[Christien]

Nvm

 

[Retire91]

Agreed. Hasek in his prime IMO was the best goaltender that ever lived. Had he been on the Devils, Wings, Stars or Avs in the 90's just imagine how many cups he would have.

I like Hasek too I just like Roy better I feel like Roy had the longer peak but Hasek had the higher peak.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Gretzky obviously

This one requires no explanation. Arguably the most dominant athlete in any pro sport ever.

 

[Red Stanley]

I'd be more interested to see who doesn't make it in the first round. I'd totally trade 1OA Gretzky for half a dozen second rounders.

 

[HisNoodliness]

To be clear (and I should've clarified this, but forgot), it's not a Full draft. It's 1 round, largely because I want to actually finish it before September lol

Oh, this is actually pretty lame to be first overall. There's no opportunity for any debate with the great one on the board. By 5 or 6 it'll be really interesting.

 

[kliq]

I like Hasek too I just like Roy better I feel like Roy had the longer peak but Hasek had the higher peak.

Agreed

 

[SirloinUB]

Gretzky

 

[Henkka]

Liked Orr, but the pick is Wayne.