Speculation: Next Head Coach of the Calgary Flames

[Johnny Hoxville]

Again I’m not gonna claim to know anything about Peters, I do recall Gully making a comment about the Canes this year. He said, that their team is probably the best in the league at standing you up at the blue line and preventing zone entry. Basically they clog up the neutral zone and make it very challenging for you to even gain the zone better than anyone. The Canes had a very good D, but they also had 2 guys in Slavin and Pesce, relative unknowns and they became an elite shutdown duo, so that’s encouraging. Also Hanifin was an all star this year, but Faulk has taken really steps back offensively, so I’m not sure what to think.

He might be an excellent choice.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Still not sold on Peters when there are tried and true winners on the market but this team's speed was clearly a problem in matchups against teams like Winnipeg or Vegas, would be nice to see them play uptempo hockey rather than Gulutzan's "remember to carry the one and review the checklist any time you make a play" system.

Really I just want a coach that lets Brodie skate again.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Gallant wasn’t far off from his time in Florida than Peters has been with the Canes. I’m not saying Peters is our guy or the best choice. But I do trust Treliving. If he feels strongly about him, I’m intrigued. I like that he’s a tougher man than Gully, these players need that.

 

[Volica]

No idea.
No sexy names that I'm overly interested in to be honest.

Not sure what the excitement is over Peters. Not really any kind of kind of an NHL winning pedigree to him... and if we want experience, he doesn't even have 400 games under his belt. His Carolina teams sucked, but I mean, this Calgary team outside of our top 4 forwards and D does too.

Sutter and Tippett don't get me going either.

It'll be one of those three. And there will be groaning no matter who it is.

 

[InfinityIggy]

^ I think the ‘excitement’ is more to do with his situation/availability/association to Treliving than it is to do with posters actually wanting him as coach.

 

[Anglesmith]

Never been out of the second round. They were the best team two years in a row because they had the best roster. I'm not saying the guy sucks and shouldn't get another HC job, and if experience is really all that matters then well he sure has a lot of it, so I'm sure he will. Disagree totally with looking for a stop gap coach, the kind with a short shelf life(Ruff, Sutter, Tippett,Trotz could all fall under this designation), why hire a guy on the pretense of firing him when he gets the team to where management thinks it should be. The kind of cache and respect these coaches get doesn't go on forever and is honestly just repeating past mistakes (Brent Sutter, Mike Keenan, Bob Hartley).

This is a make it or break it decision Treliving has in front of him, and will likely dictate whether his legacy is fondly remembered as a great GM or as yet another good not good enough chapter of the Calgary Flames.

Can we stop with the ridiculous narrative of being "cursed" in the playoffs? Not only is it silly in theory, it's silly in practice. Tell me about Quenneville's playoff résumé before 2010. Tell me about Darryl Sutter's playoff résumé before 2012. Tell me about Claude Julien's playoff résumé before 2011. Etc., etc., etc.

But even without the examples, just think about it theoretically. A coach gets his team to play a certain way, and what that system is and how well the team can carry out his vision dictates how much they win. In the pressure-filled environment of the playoffs where you're playing against only the best teams in the league, it's silly to think that a coach is going to change what he's doing or how he's doing it, but it is very logical for players themselves to change what they're doing, because even in the regular season players go through peaks and valleys in their performance. Some players elevate their level in the playoffs, and others do the opposite, fairly repeatably, and combined with natural oscillations in play, enough hot or cold players on your team can make or break a series for you. The playoffs are a bit of a crap-shoot in some regards, but all a coach can do is make the best possible hockey team out of their roster, and then hope that the players execute better than their opponents all the way through.

I mean, you're saying that the Caps won those President's trophies just based on their roster, but lost in the playoffs in spite of that same roster. It's contradictory. If you want to put the playoff losses on Trotz, you also have to give him credit for turning a team that missed the playoffs under Oates to an absolute juggernaut under him for three straight seasons, even when the roster got worse for this season. And how in the heck are you justifying putting Trotz in a category as a short shelf-life coach? 15 years in Nasvhille. 15. Fifteen. And now four years in Washington and no sign of the team tuning him out at all. Care to explain that?

Also, I think you misunderstood me. I don't think the Flames should/would be hiring Trotz as a stopgap. I said that would only apply if one entertained the notion of Trotz being doomed to never win in the playoffs, which I think I've been pretty clear is a ridiculous concept.

 

[Volica]

^ I think the ‘excitement’ is more to do with his situation/availability/association to Treliving than it is to do with posters actually wanting him as coach.

I'm actually talking more about if you google his name, the first things it pulls is Bill Peters + Calgary Flames. I didn't even read the majority of the thread

He doesn't scream 'this is a clear upgrade on Gulutzan' to me. If we want someone who's going to keep everyone accountable, and has the pedigree of being a longtime tough coach, it's Sutter. Like I said. None of the people we're talking about gets me up in the morning. Seems like a cast of 'Yeah, I guess that'll work' rather than a 'That sounds awesome!'.

I will say, Sutter with a young Tkachuk to craft; is exciting. He got Kopitar from a good centre, to one of the best in short order.

I don't know. I'm sure it'll be Peters, and I'm pretty 'meh' about that.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Wait, is Bill Peters the guy who said the Flames are getting a new Dome? Sign me up.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Can we stop with the ridiculous narrative of being "cursed" in the playoffs? Not only is it silly in theory, it's silly in practice. Tell me about Quenneville's playoff résumé before 2010. Tell me about Darryl Sutter's playoff résumé before 2012. Tell me about Claude Julien's playoff résumé before 2011. Etc., etc., etc.

But even without the examples, just think about it theoretically. A coach gets his team to play a certain way, and what that system is and how well the team can carry out his vision dictates how much they win. In the pressure-filled environment of the playoffs where you're playing against only the best teams in the league, it's silly to think that a coach is going to change what he's doing or how he's doing it, but it is very logical for players themselves to change what they're doing, because even in the regular season players go through peaks and valleys in their performance. Some players elevate their level in the playoffs, and others do the opposite, fairly repeatably, and combined with natural oscillations in play, enough hot or cold players on your team can make or break a series for you. The playoffs are a bit of a crap-shoot in some regards, but all a coach can do is make the best possible hockey team out of their roster, and then hope that the players execute better than their opponents all the way through.

I mean, you're saying that the Caps won those President's trophies just based on their roster, but lost in the playoffs in spite of that same roster. It's contradictory. If you want to put the playoff losses on Trotz, you also have to give him credit for turning a team that missed the playoffs under Oates to an absolute juggernaut under him for three straight seasons, even when the roster got worse for this season. And how in the heck are you justifying putting Trotz in a category as a short shelf-life coach? 15 years in Nasvhille. 15. Fifteen. And now four years in Washington and no sign of the team tuning him out at all. Care to explain that?

Also, I think you misunderstood me. I don't think the Flames should/would be hiring Trotz as a stopgap. I said that would only apply if one entertained the notion of Trotz being doomed to never win in the playoffs, which I think I've been pretty clear is a ridiculous concept.

I never said curse, you did. If experience is going to be so valued then you actually have to look at the experience. Just like any other job interview. Trotz has coached over 1500 games, and has never been able to win more than 7 games in one season in the playoffs. He's been given a powerplay goal scoring god and still finds ways to get beat.

You just fired someone for not getting the desired results, so you should go after the guy who hasn't delivered at it longer than anyone else? Doesn't make sense.

Calgary needs to be looking at a style, a philosophy, and they need to be looking in places like Boston, Tampa, Nashville, Vegas, Winnipeg and Pittsburgh. Do these teams spend all their time trapping and cycling? Or do they pressure the opponent into turnovers and penalties. Do they score a goal and sit at their blue line or do they go get another one?

Fully expecting them to a pull out a long lost Sutter brother. Been coaching hockey in the Arctic circle in Russia or something.

 

[Anglesmith]

I never said curse, you did. If experience is going to be so valued then you actually have to look at the experience. Just like any other job interview. Trotz has coached over 1500 games, and has never been able to win more than 8 games in one season in the playoffs. He's been given a powerplay goal scoring god and still finds ways to get beat.

You just fired someone for not getting the desired results, so you should go after the guy who hasn't delivered at it longer than anyone else? Doesn't make sense.

Yes, I inserted the word "curse" to sum up what you're describing. You're indicating that playoff results are somehow predictive in nature specifically regarding the coach. In spite of the evidence of several coaches who went through the same process as Trotz and eventually broke through (which you conveniently ignore). You're sidestepping the possibility of players being at fault, the possibility that they just run into a team playing better every playoffs, and you probably aren't suggesting that he actually coaches differently in the playoffs, so that leaves one option: a curse on him and presumably his family.

Trotz has definitely delivered results. He's achieved everything that is realistically within his power. He took a team from out of the playoffs and instantly turned them into legitimate Cup contenders pretty much every season. At some point people need to realize that a coach cannot single-handedly win a playoff series, let alone four in a row. A coach can do everything right and still lose. But if I'm judging a coach, I would much rather use an 82-game sample than a 14-game sample, given he's doing the same job in both.

Calgary needs to be looking at a style, a philosophy, and they need to be looking in places like Boston, Tampa, Nashville, Vegas, Winnipeg and Pittsburgh. Do these teams spend all their time trapping and cycling? Or do they pressure the opponent into turnovers and penalties. Do they score a goal and sit at their blue line or do they go get another one?

Fully expecting them to a pull out a long lost Sutter brother. Been coaching hockey in the Arctic circle in Russia or something.

It's a copycat league, sure, but the team that is being copied varies as often as coaches do in the NHL. It was all about speed, then it was all about size, now it's all about speed again. There are many different ways to skin a cat. It's not like when LA won their Cups, the rules were grossly different than they are right now. Ignoring the exact nature of his style and system, what we know over anything else is that Trotz can make a team win a boatload of games in today's NHL with today's players. You're acting like his team isn't good, like he's lost his touch or something. To quote our recently-departed coach, "you check the [expletive] standings?!"

 

[JPeeper]

It will be Peters and many a flames fans will lose their mind.

One thing about Peters that excites me is he seems to do well with young players. Look at what he has done with Ago, Teuvo, Lindholm, Rask, Pesce, Slaavin, Hanifin. He also freaking plays them.

He could turn Rasmus and Valimaki into a legit 1b/2a pairing in like 2 years. Trade off Gio, Hamonic and Brodie and replace with Rasmus, Vali and fox in the next 3 years:

Valimaki-Fox
Andersson-Hamilton
Kulak-Kylington

 

[DFF]

I do not know who it is but it's pathetic the way they gave up on Gulutzan at the end of the season. The Flames need a coach that is willing to kick their asses. Too often they didnt show up for important games. LOL @ "we are not ready to compete"

Not saying it should be him but someone like good old Darryl Sutter would help!!!


Also BT needs to get busy quick. This is not a playoff roster, no matter who is the coach

 

[Calculon]

This is not a playoff roster, no matter who is the coach

This is the kind of over reacting hyperbole that people need to be wary of. A worse (on paper) roster with slightly worse goaltending made the playoffs just a year ago

 

[DFF]

This is the kind of over reacting hyperbole that people need to be wary of. A worse (on paper) roster with slightly worse goaltending made the playoffs just a year ago

Breaking news...other teams have improved more.

It's more realistic than hyperbole.

 

[Lunatik]

Breaking news...other teams have improved more.

It's more realistic than hyperbole.

You've never made a post that wasn't thick in negative hyperbole.

 

[Volica]

This is the kind of over reacting hyperbole that people need to be wary of. A worse (on paper) roster with slightly worse goaltending made the playoffs just a year ago

People just like to write off, at one point of the season we were talking about catching up to Vegas. The Wheels came right off. The question is, the wheels coming off, is that something the coach can do? A player thing?

 

[DFF]

You've never made a post that wasn't thick in negative hyperbole.

OK but you are full of hyperbole yourself

Back to the topic, I dont know of anybody other than delusional fans would think this is a playoff roster. Smith is getting older and start showing sign of it. The other goalies are more suspect than prospect. While the defense is solid the forwards are full of holes and nobody in the system that can adequately replace them.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Can we stop with the ridiculous narrative of being "cursed" in the playoffs? Not only is it silly in theory, it's silly in practice. Tell me about Quenneville's playoff résumé before 2010. Tell me about Darryl Sutter's playoff résumé before 2012. Tell me about Claude Julien's playoff résumé before 2011. Etc., etc., etc.

But even without the examples, just think about it theoretically. A coach gets his team to play a certain way, and what that system is and how well the team can carry out his vision dictates how much they win. In the pressure-filled environment of the playoffs where you're playing against only the best teams in the league, it's silly to think that a coach is going to change what he's doing or how he's doing it, but it is very logical for players themselves to change what they're doing, because even in the regular season players go through peaks and valleys in their performance. Some players elevate their level in the playoffs, and others do the opposite, fairly repeatably, and combined with natural oscillations in play, enough hot or cold players on your team can make or break a series for you. The playoffs are a bit of a crap-shoot in some regards, but all a coach can do is make the best possible hockey team out of their roster, and then hope that the players execute better than their opponents all the way through.

I mean, you're saying that the Caps won those President's trophies just based on their roster, but lost in the playoffs in spite of that same roster. It's contradictory. If you want to put the playoff losses on Trotz, you also have to give him credit for turning a team that missed the playoffs under Oates to an absolute juggernaut under him for three straight seasons, even when the roster got worse for this season. And how in the heck are you justifying putting Trotz in a category as a short shelf-life coach? 15 years in Nasvhille. 15. Fifteen. And now four years in Washington and no sign of the team tuning him out at all. Care to explain that?

Also, I think you misunderstood me. I don't think the Flames should/would be hiring Trotz as a stopgap. I said that would only apply if one entertained the notion of Trotz being doomed to never win in the playoffs, which I think I've been pretty clear is a ridiculous concept.

Amen. People were against Boudreau and we ended up with Gulutzan.

Coaching hockey isn’t like football. Your system is your system. You don’t change your system mid series like in football where you change the play every time.

 

[Backlund]

OK but you are full of hyperbole yourself

Back to the topic, I dont know of anybody other than delusional fans would think this is a playoff roster. Smith is getting older and start showing sign of it. The other goalies are more suspect than prospect. While the defense is solid the forwards are full of holes and nobody in the system that can adequately replace them.

I think this is a playoff roster, but its a first round exit playoff roster. We simply do not have the offensive firepower to match the top teams and we don't defend good enough to make up for it. Gaudreau is our only elite forward, Tkachuk has the potential to be one and Monahan's only elite talent is his shot. We need a top 6 forward who can put up points. Treliving's future as our GM will depend on his ability to address this moving forward.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Have people forgot that we have better advanced metrics and defensive metrics than Nashville the past two years? Nashville had better goaltending and still finished beneath us in 2016-2017.

 

[DCDM]

Have people forgot that we have better advanced metrics and defensive metrics than Nashville the past two years? Nashville had better goaltending and still finished beneath us in 2016-2017.

And?

 

[Backlund]

Have people forgot that we have better advanced metrics and defensive metrics than Nashville the past two years? Nashville had better goaltending and still finished beneath us in 2016-2017.

Advanced stats are overrated. Looking at this team and Nashville play would you honestly be able to say that the only difference is goaltending? Gulutzan had us playing too much perimeter hockey, our chances were low quality and we didn't apply enough pressure to create more opportunities when the defense broke down.

Safe hockey will give you good advanced stats, it won't win you shit though. At least not anymore.

 

[Turning Mangiapanese]

Have people forgot that we have better advanced metrics and defensive metrics than Nashville the past two years? Nashville had better goaltending and still finished beneath us in 2016-2017.

Nashville made the Stanley Cup finals in 2016-2017.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Again I’m not gonna claim to know anything about Peters, I do recall Gully making a comment about the Canes this year. He said, that their team is probably the best in the league at standing you up at the blue line and preventing zone entry. Basically they clog up the neutral zone and make it very challenging for you to even gain the zone better than anyone. The Canes had a very good D, but they also had 2 guys in Slavin and Pesce, relative unknowns and they became an elite shutdown duo, so that’s encouraging. Also Hanifin was an all star this year, but Faulk has taken really steps back offensively, so I’m not sure what to think.

He might be an excellent choice.

Peters has his defensemen play very tight gaps in the neutral zone, thus the standing up / clogging up comments above. He also has them being very active in terms of pinching in the offensive zone and joining the rush (constantly talks about activating the defense) which keeps the puck in the zone as well. It leads to very strong possession, but requires a couple of things.
1) the defensemen all need to be able to skate very well. If they cannot, it makes it difficult to play in this type of system.
2) the defensemen have to be quick in terms of decision making. If not, they struggle because they either gap up at the wrong time, pinch at the wrong time, or don't cover well for their partner. It's why Slavin does so well in this system is because his decision making is excellent.
3) the forwards have to be very aware, anticipate well, and be responsible defensively because of how active the defensemen are.

When it's played well, it's very tough to get shots and to get offense going against it, but it doesn't leave much margin for error, so if someone screws up, it leads to an odd man rush or breakaway. I think the Flames probably have the right type of personnel, even more-so than the Canes, to make his system work well, but the goalie will get his fair share of odd man rushes/break-aways in his system.

In terms of offense, I'm not sold on Peters, but it might be a personnel thing. Canes don't have the horses offensively so that might be part of it, but they don't seem to get enough good shots from high quality scoring spots so some say the system is flawed in that regards (too many shots from the point and from lower chance spots). Hard to say for sure. Aho and TT have done well, but other guys have struggled.

For the most part, Peters is not afraid to play young guys and play them in roles they are best suited for (ie..he doesn't bring up a scoring winger and plug him on the 4th line). With Carolina, he didn't have much choice though, but still, he doesn't shy away from it. He does have his favorites, as any coach does so if he comes to Calgary, I assume Derek Ryan will quickly sign a UFA contract there and you guys will be lamenting why he's getting so much playing time.

 

[Calculon]