Speculation: Next Blue to have their number retired?

[EastVillageBlues]

Petro has a shot, but I wouldn't say it's a guarantee. None of the others, but maybe Tarasenko has a shot depending on his future, but I'm leaning no on him.

Petro has bailed, he wasn't long enough here to make HoF level of contribution to the franchise anyways, I don't think there is much of a chance. He isn't close to Pronger's legacy here.

Tank, I guess there is a chance only if he withdraws his trade request.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Petro has bailed, he wasn't long enough here to make HoF level of contribution to the franchise anyways, I don't think there is much of a chance. He isn't close to Pronger's legacy here.

Tank, I guess there is a chance only if he withdraws his trade request.

What? He's the first and only captain in the history of our franchise to lift the Cup. He also happened to score the Cup winning goal. Da fuk legacy are you talking about with Pronger? The fact that he blew out Fuhr's knee? I get that he was an awesome player for us, but come on. One person's legacy is winning the Cup, the other was being an exceptional individual player. Winning should trump everything.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Petro has bailed, he wasn't long enough here to make HoF level of contribution to the franchise anyways, I don't think there is much of a chance. He isn't close to Pronger's legacy here.

Tank, I guess there is a chance only if he withdraws his trade request.

He was here 12 years, and was the captain that led us to our 1st Cup. He will more likely than not be retired IMO. He's 5th all-time in games played, 10th in points, 3rd in assists. While these might not matter as much, he's 1st in defensive point shares, and 2nd in total point shares. He should go up, even if we want to argue that it's partly symbolic of getting that 1st Cup.

 

[TurgPavs]

It should have been Unger way before now.

If Tarasenko stays, 91 will be up there.
If he continues at his current pace, he will finish the season:
Top 3 in GWG, Top 5 in Goals and Points, Top 10 in assists, and he would be right at 13-15 in games played.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Not sure what you guys are referring to, by your logic, every team should have every captain's number from a Cup team retired. It's an item in the consideration, but one of a large number, and very far down the list. Individual achievement is the primary consideration here. Pronger is head and shoulders above almost every D-man in Blues' history, Petro may be comes in at top 5-6, depends on who you ask.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Not sure what you guys are referring to, by your logic, every team should have every captain's number from a Cup team retired. It's an item in the consideration, but one of a large number, and very far down the list. Individual achievement is the primary consideration here. Pronger is head and shoulders above almost every D-man in Blues' history, Petro may be comes in at top 5-6, depends on who you ask.

Ok, who else do you have ahead of him besides MacInnis and Pronger? This should be good.

 

[Brian39]

Petro has bailed, he wasn't long enough here to make HoF level of contribution to the franchise anyways, I don't think there is much of a chance. He isn't close to Pronger's legacy here.

Tank, I guess there is a chance only if he withdraws his trade request.

He was here longer than #2, #3, #5, #8, #16 and #44. He is 5th in franchise history in games played. 94 more regular season points than #44 and they are tied in playoff points. He led the team in ice time on the way to the Cup. His legacy is being the #1 D man and captain of the franchise's first Cup. He also happened to score the Cup winning goal.

Pronger was incredible, but the furthest he got us was to the Conference Final. After leaving STL, he took 3 other teams to the Cup Final in a 5 year window.

It is truly remarkable how much people will try to revise history when a player leaves in free agency. People acting like Petro wasn't actually here that long are delusional. And not for nothing, but money was the reason we traded Pronger. He made $9.5M a year before the cap went into effect and was demanding to be paid like the top D man in the NHL under the new cap. That was 100% well deserved and I will vehemently argue that the Blues should have given it to him. Trading him to make the team more appealing was insanely stupid. But I also doubt that it would have happened if he came in and was willing to take a discount to stay in St. Louis. Edmonton quickly gave him the biggest D contract in the league after we traded his rights to them. His 16% of the cap coming out of the lockout is the equivalent to a $13M cap hit today. Money and the cap wasn't covered like it is today. Team's didn't release contract details, we didn't have cap tracking sites and for the most part we didn't know who made what or how that compared to peers. Now we have all that info and armchair quarterbacking GM decisions is a massive part of being a fan. If the Pronger shit show went down in today's media landscape, I am fully confident that most fans would have been calling him greedy and disparaging him for not taking a big discount to stay a Blue. I'd have thought that was a stupid take, but the legacy of that trade absolutely would have been different than it is today.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Ok, who else do you have ahead of him besides MacInnis and Pronger? This should be good.

Barclay Plager (arguably the best defensive player in Blues' history), and Ramage were significantly better players at their peak. A few others like Bob Player and Parayko are on similar levels of career performance.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

He was here longer than #2, #3, #5, #8, #16 and #44. He is 5th in franchise history in games played. 94 more regular season points than #44 and they are tied in playoff points. He led the team in ice time on the way to the Cup. His legacy is being the #1 D man and captain of the franchise's first Cup. He also happened to score the Cup winning goal.

Pronger was incredible, but the furthest he got us was to the Conference Final. After leaving STL, he took 3 other teams to the Cup Final in a 5 year window.

It is truly remarkable how much people will try to revise history when a player leaves in free agency. People acting like Petro wasn't actually here that long are delusional. And not for nothing, but money was the reason we traded Pronger. He made $9.5M a year before the cap went into effect and was demanding to be paid like the top D man in the NHL under the new cap. That was 100% well deserved and I will vehemently argue that the Blues should have given it to him. Trading him to make the team more appealing was insanely stupid. But I also doubt that it would have happened if he came in and was willing to take a discount to stay in St. Louis. Edmonton quickly gave him the biggest D contract in the league after we traded his rights to them. His 16% of the cap coming out of the lockout is the equivalent to a $13M cap hit today. Money and the cap wasn't covered like it is today. Team's didn't release contract details, we didn't have cap tracking sites and for the most part we didn't know who made what or how that compared to peers. Now we have all that info and armchair quarterbacking GM decisions is a massive part of being a fan. If the Pronger shit show went down in today's media landscape, I am fully confident that most fans would have been calling him greedy and disparaging him for not taking a big discount to stay a Blue. I'd have thought that was a stupid take, but the legacy of that trade absolutely would have been different than it is today.

Pronger played in a era of dead puck and neutral-zone trap, that cannot be compared to today's game in terms of point totals. I didn't say he was not worthy of being one of the best D in franchise history, but in fact said that he would be most likely 5 or 6. But his career doesn't approach the level of Pronger or MacInnis. The fact that he incidentally happened to wear the C during the cup run had little to do with whether his number deserves to be retired or not.

Not sure what revisionist history you are referring to, maybe your own misconceptions of the 2020 off-season. He basically refused to commit to anything all year long, and wanted the Blues to wait until every other viable FA replacement is gone. And he constantly negotiated by leaking info through the media before the FA deadline before that. Of course Armstrong wasn't willing to play that game, and I think most people are glad that we didn't allow him to hold the franchise hostage through that entire time.

 

[Blueston]

Petro may well get his number retired, but he ain't on a HOF arc. Not particularly close.

 

[Brian39]

Not sure what revisionist history you are referring to

The bolded part. Same part I bolded when I quoted you last time.

Petro has bailed, he wasn't long enough here to make HoF level of contribution to the franchise anyways, I don't think there is much of a chance. He isn't close to Pronger's legacy here.

You are claiming 'he wasn't here long enough' despite being here longer than 6 of the 8 numbers in the rafters. He played more regular season minutes than any skater in franchise history. He played more playoff minutes than any skater in franchise history. No Blues skater in the history of the franchise has been on the ice more than Petro. 5th all time in regular season games played for the franchise and 2nd in playoff games played. He was a #1D for over a decade here and he was a #1D on a defense-first Cup champion. He was 3rd on the team in scoring in the playoff run while contributing a ton defensively. You are glossing over all of this to say that he wasn't here long enough and supporting that by criticizing the way he left. You're the only one arguing that contract negotiations are relevant to what a player did while he was with an organization.

Pronger is absolutely a better D man than Petro. No one is arguing otherwise. He accomplished more individually than Petro did while he was here. He accomplished less team success and never contributed as much in the playoffs as Petro did in 2019.

 

[Brian39]

Barclay Plager (arguably the best defensive player in Blues' history), and Ramage were significantly better players at their peak. A few others like Bob Player and Parayko are on similar levels of career performance.

I wildly disagree with all of these, but comparing eras is essentially impossible so I'm not going to get into the weeds comparing players separated by multiple decades and eras.

But the Parayko comment is ludicrous. Parayko is 28 and turns 29 in a few months. He's 3 years younger than Petro. He's never earned a single vote for Norris, never topped 35 points, never went to the World Junior, never represented Canada at a best-on-best tournament, and so far has not demonstrated that he can be an effective #1 D man. This is Petro's 11th straight season playing 24+ minutes a night. This is Parayko's first season doing it and he is getting caved in. His high prior to this season was 23:00 a night.

You have no idea what you are watching on the ice if you believe that Parayko's career performance is even remotely comparable to Petro's. Petro was considered a top 5-15 D man for nearly a decade here. Parayko briefly cracked some top 20 lists and has since fallen out of all of them.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Barclay Plager (arguably the best defensive player in Blues' history), and Ramage were significantly better players at their peak. A few others like Bob Player and Parayko are on similar levels of career performance.

This is quite the take.

 

[Blueston]

Barclay Plager (arguably the best defensive player in Blues' history), and Ramage were significantly better players at their peak. A few others like Bob Player and Parayko are on similar levels of career performance.

I've been watching the club closely since mid-80's. 2 best defensemen I've seen for Blues were Pronger and Stevens. Mac I would say is 3rd. Stevens isn't going to have his number retired bc he wasn't here long enough, but everyone else has been well below those guys.

 

[illininer]

Vlad, if he stays

 

[Celtic Note]

I don’t see how that really helps for comparison considering neither the Plager brothers did anything great from a numbers stand point(I know why their numbers are retired and why they should be) along with Gassoff who only played 4 seasons as a Blue in addition to whatever Wickenheiser’s 14 is considered.

Those were done for reasons that I wouldn’t expect to see the franchise do today.

 

[Celtic Note]

Petro is the only one in the running, in my opinion.

 

[TheDizee]

You can't be serious. It's just a meme, right?

why wouldnt it be? you really need to learn how to read the room better.

you honestly think bob plager had great numbers? No he got his retired because of his lifetime service to the blues. kelly could have been the same had he stuck with the team doing radio and other things.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

If you start retiring every number of every great player the retired numbers become less and less prestigious. There has to be some kind of cut off.

 

[Louie the Blue]

Barclay Plager (arguably the best defensive player in Blues' history), and Ramage were significantly better players at their peak. A few others like Bob Player and Parayko are on similar levels of career performance.

I respect Bob Plager for what he meant to the organization and the city, but he was not the same caliber of player as Parayko.

Neither were Barclay Plager and Ramage when comparing to Pietrangelo.

The only numbers I can see being retired due to their longevity, performance, and what they mean to the organization currently are 20(Steen), 42 (Backes), 27 (Pietrangelo). Jackman has as much of an argument as Plager does for 5 being retired.

Tarasenko and Perron could also have their numbers retired depending on how long they stay with the organization as well.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I can't make an argument for it based on numbers, but in my heart Perron is the guy who I'd want to see have his number retired next. I really don't care if Pietro ever does, even if the statistics are supportive of it.

 

[Ridge1982]

Tampa is as close to a pre cap dynasty as we’re going to get in the post.

 

[execwrite1]

Demitra's number should have been retired a long time ago.

His numbers are better than I remembered as a Blue

7 full seasons, 201 goals, 289 assists, 490 points (70 pts avg).

But I wouldn't retire his number.

 

[Ranksu]

Last night the Blues (via Tom Calhoun) stated that no player had worn 44 since Pronger left, and I thought that was certainly one way to handle what they chose to do when they did give it out to multiple other players.

I remember only one player who were almost as good as Pronger and played #44 too.

 

[Blueston]

I remember only one player who were almost as good as Pronger and played #44 too.

Are you serious? Souray had great shot but was no where near the defensive player Pronger was. Not even same galaxy.