Player Discussion Nail Yakupov

[Replacement*]

Oh. So Gagner sucks too because of his linemates? Good to know.

Gagner doesn't suck first of all.

A player that's gone a career .600PPG while playing 2nd line or worse doesn't suck from a production pov period.

At worst Gagner is a player that can be used in specialist, or specific roles, is effective on PP and always has been as he works a decent downlow PP and can cycle excellently on PP or EV where his career production is also decent anytime he's playing topsix.

But hang this guy up with Dave Tippet or Flyer type notions and buy him in the lineup and its not exactly ideal.

Meanwhile fools like Tyler Johnson have an ideal situation in Tampa and after getting hot for awhile are burning out in flames.

I would take a Gagner over a Tyler Johnson any day of the week but oh Tampa...

 

[Replacement*]

Players replacement likes suck due to their linemates. Players he hates suck due to their own play. Makes sense.

heh. which players do I hate?

Shortlist;

I kind of despise Schultz. His own fault.

I don't know that Pronger would disguise his flaws.

That's saying something..

 

[Suxnet]

Gagner sucks wtf.

 

[doulos]

Players replacement likes suck due to their linemates. Players he hates suck due to their own play. Makes sense.

It's all Tyler Johnson's fault. The Lightning are the cause of all evil in the league and Gagner would be a superstar if not for them.

 

[Stoneman89]

heh. which players do I hate?

Shortlist;

I kind of despise Schultz. His own fault.

I don't know that Pronger would disguise his flaws.

That's saying something..

Really? What solid veteran has he had to help him out? Not an excuse, anymore than Nail. Sorry, lump him with Yak.

If you get a chance, listen to Stauffers show this aft with Craig Simpson on, and go to the part where they get to Yak. Not that Simmer says anything that hasn't been said before, but he reiterates what so many so called hockey experts are now saying about Yak. He has physical skills, and this allowed him to dominate in junior. But he cannot use those same skills in the NHL now because this league requires the utmost in hockey sense, the players are bigger and faster, and the play flies around him. He skates his ass off, and comes up with the odd hit, so effort is not the issue. He's not making inexperience mistakes anymore. The type he is making are from not processing the game quickly enough. I'm sorry, but that just cannot be taught. And this has nothing to do with who he plays with. He makes the same mistakes whether it's with skill guys or pluggers. He may improve a bit as he gets older, just due to being stronger, etc, but it's time to let him try his hand somewhere else. The list of excuses is running thin these days.

 

[Stoneman89]

Gagner could play wing successfully tomorrow if he had at least one talented and physical linemate to play with on a consistent basis.



Yak could do fine if he had a center as routine as Roy, oh, wait.

This org is just chronically stupid. Things work, then they undo it. I dunno...

If that's the case, then why aren't all the teams that have configurations like that, lining up to get him for a song?

 

[guymez]

Really? What solid veteran has he had to help him out? Not an excuse, anymore than Nail. Sorry, lump him with Yak.

If you get a chance, listen to Stauffers show this aft with Craig Simpson on, and go to the part where they get to Yak. Not that Simmer says anything that hasn't been said before, but he reiterates what so many so called hockey experts are now saying about Yak. He has physical skills, and this allowed him to dominate in junior. But he cannot use those same skills in the NHL now because this league requires the utmost in hockey sense, the players are bigger and faster, and the play flies around him. He skates his ass off, and comes up with the odd hit, so effort is not the issue. He's not making inexperience mistakes anymore. The type he is making are from not processing the game quickly enough. I'm sorry, but that just cannot be taught. And this has nothing to do with who he plays with. He makes the same mistakes whether it's with skill guys or pluggers. He may improve a bit as he gets older, just due to being stronger, etc, but it's time to let him try his hand somewhere else. The list of excuses is running thin these days.

The bottom line...for some its clearly everybodys fault but Yaks.

There is no convincing them....facts are irrelevant. Expert opinion is irrelevant.
Its just become a circular argument.

I'm out....just going to watch everybody else go around and around with the usual suspects.

 

[Replacement*]

If that's the case, then why aren't all the teams that have configurations like that, lining up to get him for a song?

Hmmm. somewhat odd perspective from an oiler fan assuming that NHL orgs are astute. More the case is you often have NHL managers promoted through Peter Principle that learn on the job and go from player to manager with the outright assumption that this is a perfect prerequisite for the job when its arguably quite often not at all the case.

I've outlined my position already. Some Managers in the NHL are gold. I posit that those good managers steal other managers lunch money on a regular basis but with those being the stacked teams, like LA, who are too loaded for a Gagner to fit. Hawks being another one.

But the run of the mill clubs usually run by middle of the road or worse managers aren't apparently all that astute at improving their lot. Even in a capped league that is supposed to be competitive.

Again, Gagner is a career .600 PPG producer. In a sensible pro sport entertainment league, in which Gagner is very capable of producing entertainment, it would make sense for some team to utilize him in a topsix fashion. Theres a ton of teams running guys in topsix that have production and entertainment value that is far south of that. Toronto doesn't have one forward in their lineup even comparable right now. But they're tanking so..

Anyway this is OT. If you want to talk about it in PM then I'm fine with that.

 

[Stoneman89]

Hmmm. somewhat odd perspective from an oiler fan assuming that NHL orgs are astute. More the case is you often have NHL managers promoted through Peter Principle that learn on the job and go from player to manager with the outright assumption that this is a perfect prerequisite for the job when its arguably quite often not at all the case.

I've outlined my position already. Some Managers in the NHL are gold. I posit that those good managers steal other managers lunch money on a regular basis but with those being the stacked teams, like LA, who are too loaded for a Gagner to fit. Hawks being another one.

But the run of the mill clubs usually run by middle of the road or worse managers aren't apparently all that astute at improving their lot. Even in a capped league that is supposed to be competitive.

Again, Gagner is a career .600 PPG producer. In a sensible pro sport entertainment league, in which Gagner is very capable of producing entertainment, it would make sense for some team to utilize him in a topsix fashion. Theres a ton of teams running guys in topsix that have production and entertainment value that is far south of that. Toronto doesn't have one forward in their lineup even comparable right now. But they're tanking so..

Anyway this is OT. If you want to talk about it in PM then I'm fine with that.

I'm just saying, if a player is good enough, a team will find room for him.

 

[Replacement*]

Really? What solid veteran has he had to help him out? Not an excuse, anymore than Nail. Sorry, lump him with Yak.

If you get a chance, listen to Stauffers show this aft with Craig Simpson on, and go to the part where they get to Yak. Not that Simmer says anything that hasn't been said before, but he reiterates what so many so called hockey experts are now saying about Yak. He has physical skills, and this allowed him to dominate in junior. But he cannot use those same skills in the NHL now because this league requires the utmost in hockey sense, the players are bigger and faster, and the play flies around him. He skates his ass off, and comes up with the odd hit, so effort is not the issue. He's not making inexperience mistakes anymore. The type he is making are from not processing the game quickly enough. I'm sorry, but that just cannot be taught. And this has nothing to do with who he plays with. He makes the same mistakes whether it's with skill guys or pluggers. He may improve a bit as he gets older, just due to being stronger, etc, but it's time to let him try his hand somewhere else. The list of excuses is running thin these days.

Schultz GA while contributing nothing else is atrocious. Yak, and this seems not well understood, actually has improved GA drastically to where its not a discernible problem for the club.

The difference too is that Yak has shown potential at this level of significant production for stretches as much as 28 contiguous games. Schultz at no point has shown much of any propensity to be playing in this league. Or if he has I missed it.

 

[Replacement*]

I'm just saying, if a player is good enough, a team will find room for him.

That assumes a world working as it should. Even an infinitely talented Lecavalier was looking on the outs and to be impending waiver fodder until the Kings made a deal. I knew Vinny would hit the ground running in LA and I'm on record here with that. Wasn't even a challenging assessment. A no brainer imo that Lecavalier would match the Kings lineup and what they do.

That said I don't assume the NHL, or the world, is astutely run.

The world proves me right most days..

just jk around

 

[Stoneman89]

Schultz GA while contributing nothing else is atrocious. Yak, and this seems not well understood, actually has improved GA drastically to where its not a discernible problem for the club.

The difference too is that Yak has shown potential at this level of significant production for stretches as much as 28 contiguous games. Schultz at no point has shown much of any propensity to be playing in this league. Or if he has I missed it.

One of them also plays tons of tougher minutes at a much more unforgiving position compared to the other. And that is NOT a defence of Schultz, only a comparison.

Both of them showed some promise in their rookie years under Krueger. Probably just a blip. They both have their issues. Yak has no clue, and Schultz has no balls or give a damm. Trade them both to the Wizards.

 

[Stoneman89]

That assumes a world working as it should. Even an infinitely talented Lecavalier was looking on the outs and to be impending waiver fodder until the Kings made a deal. I knew Vinny would hit the ground running in LA and I'm on record here with that. Wasn't even a challenging assessment. A no brainer imo that Lecavalier would match the Kings lineup and what they do.

That said I don't assume the NHL, or the world, is astutely run.

The world proves me right most days..

just jk around

Then case in point. If you think a guy is wasting on the vine, there will be a place for him, as there apparently was for an on his last legs Vinnie. There are enough teams in the league for someone to be wanted and used properly if they feel it's necessary. Sam may have some skill, but he is lacking in size, skating and nastiness. One out of four will get you an AHL ticket. Say hi to Robbie Schremp.

 

[Soundwave]

For better or worse after the deadline and Purcell is (probably) gone, they should just play Yakupov in the top six and see if he sinks or swims. Basically his last chance as an Oiler.

 

[belair]

For better or worse after the deadline and Purcell is (probably) gone, they should just play Yakupov in the top six and see if he sinks or swims. Basically his last chance as an Oiler.

Until then I'd run him with Lander and Hendricks. He and Anton had some chemistry in the preseason and both badly need to get the monkey off their backs. Gifting him top six minutes at this point wouldn't be doing him any favors.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

For better or worse after the deadline and Purcell is (probably) gone, they should just play Yakupov in the top six and see if he sinks or swims. Basically his last chance as an Oiler.

This would be classic Oiler developmental strategy.

Spend years stripping away their strengths until they are on the brink of destruction then give them their "one last shot".

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

Hmmm. somewhat odd perspective from an oiler fan assuming that NHL orgs are astute. More the case is you often have NHL managers promoted through Peter Principle that learn on the job and go from player to manager with the outright assumption that this is a perfect prerequisite for the job when its arguably quite often not at all the case.

I've outlined my position already. Some Managers in the NHL are gold. I posit that those good managers steal other managers lunch money on a regular basis but with those being the stacked teams, like LA, who are too loaded for a Gagner to fit. Hawks being another one.

But the run of the mill clubs usually run by middle of the road or worse managers aren't apparently all that astute at improving their lot. Even in a capped league that is supposed to be competitive.

Again, Gagner is a career .600 PPG producer. In a sensible pro sport entertainment league, in which Gagner is very capable of producing entertainment, it would make sense for some team to utilize him in a topsix fashion. Theres a ton of teams running guys in topsix that have production and entertainment value that is far south of that. Toronto doesn't have one forward in their lineup even comparable right now. But they're tanking so..

Anyway this is OT. If you want to talk about it in PM then I'm fine with that.

Over the past 5 years, Gagner is ranked 811 out of 817 players in plus minus. Sure, he scored 8 points one game, but he is an AHL player at best. He's only in the NHL because of his last name and his draft position.

 

[The Nuge]

Over the past 5 years, Gagner is ranked 811 out of 817 players in plus minus. Sure, he scored 8 points one game, but he is an AHL player at best. He's only in the NHL because of his last name and his draft position.

He also had the most goals, and most points of any forward on his team last year. He's a one dimensional middle 6 center, who's stuck playing for an Eakins calibre coach right now

 

[McWeber]

I'd take gags back on the oilers for some scoring depth next year (at a much lower aav) he's not perfect but he's a better option than sliding pouliot over and he had a good history on the pp. I have also noticed a trend of ex flyers doing pretty well after being traded. Vinny, Hartnell, Grossman all look better after being traded away, no idea about Schenn though.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

For the Yak fans... What exactly are you seeing in him that still makes you think there's player there?

I keep hearing about this mythical shot of his... But he actually gets a good one off, what? Once every three games? And he works hard, sure. So does Klinkhammer.

I'm just not seeing it. In fact. I'm not sure if I've EVER seen a play or a sequence from Yak that made me think, 'wow, if this guy can just put it together...' He made a nice drop pass to Horcoff once in his rookie season, maybe. That's it.

Honestly, someone put together a Yak highlight reel. And then a Letestu highlight reel. Is there much difference in the skill level they show in how they get their points?

 

[russ99]

We really need to stop degrading our own players, at the very least know that constant fan criticism will affect a player

IMO, Yak is a keeper, and McLellan is just trying to develop him. When we trade from out top 6, Yak is a relatively inexpensive talent that can and will do well with better linemates/situations. I trust Yak to do well in that situation a lot more that anyone in Bakersfield.

If Yak falters next year in his last cheap bridge contract year with good linemates, then it may be time for him to move, but now we're not looking at the complete picture and could easily get fleeced.

Besides were missing the real issue here and that's rushing players to the NHL level. Look at Nurse and how Draisaitl is running down. You'd think seeing what extra development did with Davidson, we'd leave guys in the AHL an extra year.

 

[russ99]

For the Yak fans... What exactly are you seeing in him that still makes you think there's player there?

I keep hearing about this mythical shot of his... But he actually gets a good one off, what? Once every three games? And he works hard, sure. So does Klinkhammer.

I'm just not seeing it. In fact. I'm not sure if I've EVER seen a play or a sequence from Yak that made me think, 'wow, if this guy can just put it together...' He made a nice drop pass to Horcoff once in his rookie season, maybe. That's it.

Honestly, someone put together a Yak highlight reel. And then a Letestu highlight reel. Is there much difference in the skill level they show in how they get their points?

He looked pretty good when he was with McDavid.

 

[Stoneman89]

Until then I'd run him with Lander and Hendricks. He and Anton had some chemistry in the preseason and both badly need to get the monkey off their backs. Gifting him top six minutes at this point wouldn't be doing him any favors.

If that's the case, when that group is on the ice, it will be snack time or bathroom break for me.

 

[Stoneman89]

He looked pretty good when he was with McDavid.

And which of his two goals in 13 games did you like the best?

 

[OilTastic]

And which of his two goals in 13 games did you like the best?

^true dis, and i'd like to see the Oilers send Yak to Montreal so he can play with his former line mate in junior, Alex Galchenyk. maybe the Oilers could score a RD from the Habs system that are further along in their development like 23 year old Morgan Ellis or 22 year old Darren Dietz? both have good size and Ellis can produce points although i do realize neither has much NHL experience.