OT: My latest blog on Lowetide.ca "Punch up in Piestany remembered"

[KingKhron]

Few things to address, theres absolutely people who take things too far and then there’s people who like to yell out insults or boo constantly. No one would disagree that the first are the zealots and their behaviour can not be tolerated. The second is perfectly within their right. I find it incredibly stupid but it’s absolutely in their right. If sport was all a only make noise when it’s positive or let’s all just think happy things about what’s to come, then it would be a fraction as rewarding financially to those players. The investment that many fans who love the game is to feel sadness, disappointment or anger as well. You can’t just have one side to the coin of passion. It does bother me that whether it’s athletes or movie stars, they often want everything positive that comes from fame but complain about anything negative that comes from it. Why must they be so mean in their reviews? Why do they boo me just because i turtled from a hit causing a scoring opportunity or skate half speed because he got by me and was two feet ahead? You get paid that much money because of people caring. You don’t want people to stare at you when you’re out or bug you for an autograph? You don’t want people to be “mean” to you by booing you or chanting your name? Then quit the game. People in the real world work backbreaking jobs and get shit on daily. I worked a night shift at Subway once and was mocked constantly by Whyte Ave drunks including at least 10 people bragging that they get more money on their tax return than I’d make in a year. Let alone the constant attempts to fight me. Pay me 5 million a year and I’d bloody well dance to that job everyday. They dream of nothing of fame but when they get it, they become idolized but also insulated. They get pampered and the riff raff kept from them. They get what they want and when they want it. They become spoiled, ungrateful and feel that they deserve everything they get. Except people being meanies.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Few things to address, theres absolutely people who take things too far and then there’s people who like to yell out insults or boo constantly. No one would disagree that the first are the zealots and their behaviour can not be tolerated. The second is perfectly within their right. I find it incredibly stupid but it’s absolutely in their right. If sport was all a only make noise when it’s positive or let’s all just think happy things about what’s to come, then it would be a fraction as rewarding financially to those players. The investment that many fans who love the game is to feel sadness, disappointment or anger as well. You can’t just have one side to the coin of passion. It does bother me that whether it’s athletes or movie stars, they often want everything positive that comes from fame but complain about anything negative that comes from it. Why must they be so mean in their reviews? Why do they boo me just because i turtled from a hit causing a scoring opportunity or skate half speed because he got by me and was two feet ahead? You get paid that much money because of people caring. You don’t want people to stare at you when you’re out or bug you for an autograph? You don’t want people to be “mean” to you by booing you or chanting your name? Then quit the game. People in the real world work backbreaking jobs and get **** on daily. I worked a night shift at Subway once and was mocked constantly by Whyte Ave drunks including at least 10 people bragging that they get more money on their tax return than I’d make in a year. Let alone the constant attempts to fight me. Pay me 5 million a year and I’d bloody well dance to that job everyday. They dream of nothing of fame but when they get it, they become idolized but also insulated. They get pampered and the riff raff kept from them. They get what they want and when they want it. They become spoiled, ungrateful and feel that they deserve everything they get. Except people being meanies.

I don't even know to say this. so its okay to shit on someone because of how much money they make?

 

[frag2]

for those who forgot the hanging of Jimmy Carson his first game back

Unloved in Canada, Carson Is Glad He Found a Way Out

"Read one sign, hanging next to a stuffed Oiler sweater with Carson's name on the back: "We Hang Wimps, Whiners and Quitters."

at the start of the game the stuff oiler sweater with carson on the back was hung lynching style at the start of the game near center ice upper deck--later it was just placed on the stairs

See. When it comes to the vitriol crossing over to family, that's crossing the line.

However, directed at the players directly based on their play, IMO, its fair game. You suck it up and do your best on ice and make the most out of it. Eberle came off as a pansy with his "my feelings hurt" media rant. Hall received just as much and he was literally shattered when traded. Sure he came with his "media is harsh but fair" comment but that's when he was asked directly following Eberle's rant. Hell, Schultz, despite leaving, was professional and said kind words about the city.

Each individual is different. Eberle just didn't have the intestinal fortitude to be a pro here. He was treated like a god and when the real god showed up in McJesus, he couldn't deal with the harsh criticism and increased expectations.

 

[KingKhron]

Eberle took all the millions and support they were given while being the saddest team in the history of the league but when it finally came to the playoffs, what meant everything to the fans(and to most players) he gave nothing out there to give back. Not a hit, not an effort, nothing. I’d write an article about the mentality behind the athlete who feels he owes the fans nothing. Thanks for all the money but your city is cold and the night clubs suck, so I’m going to go elsewhere the minute I can because no one cares who I am there but please keep watching and bugging the new guys up there because it’s the only way I still get paid this much money down here. It’s a rare player who actually gives a shit about his teams city, so why do we have to ultimately give a shit about them? Again, I don’t yell, boo or ever interact with them when I see them in public but they take every opportunity to remind us it’s just a business and in the business of sports, the customer is buying the right to act as he pleases within obvious limitations.

And the comment about so and so with a teammates wife, the two degrees of separation in Edmonton isn’t just the unwashed. My buddies play on the Eagles with Ryan Smyth. My friends dad played pro and is besties with Ken Hitchcock and Al Hamilton. Dramas involving the team, like Nurse and Drai’s this year are known, and not everyone shows the respect of discretion, so that just is what it is.

 

[KingKhron]

I don't even know to say this. so its okay to **** on someone because of how much money they make?

It’s not my bag and like I said, I find it stupid but if you think booing a player who’s clearly given up on your team is a horrid violation to them, then maybe you’re new to sports. They build an entire culture of vocalization and in a sense, as much fanaticism as they can for financial gain. The athletes don’t get to pick and choose how that plays out and pick the parts they like and go on living like kings. To anyone who hates their job, people say “Well, work towards one you won’t hate through education or whatever it takes.” Game makes you cry too much for the millions to even be able to dry those tears, get a nice crane operating licence, work in a shipyard and you can sit in your little box and read books for 75% of the day and you al ost never even have to deal with another human.

 

[KingKhron]

I guess I didn’t know yelling at the tv was cool but people who pay a couple hundred bucks to go to the game should only make noise when the jumbotron tells you to.

 

[shoop]

however poorly written or misremembered the stories are, there is a central point to this article that really sticks out like a sore thumb to the oilers fan base, and its because its true.

We are agreed it is a horribly-written article. He doesn't bolster his case by providing false facts.

I think the tendency to exaggerate how bad Edmonton is as a fanbase is pretty sad. It's really an attempt to be relevant more than anything else. Look at point #7 in this story. The Leafs "run players out of town". Oh look 20 Canadiens who were "hated" by their own fans.

Maybe Edmonton isn't the worst fan base evar?! Edmonton doesn't really matter to eastern Canadian teams, or U.S. teams or the other western Canadian teams.

Players can be sensitive over ridiculous things. Apparently the Flyers took offence last year back when fans started woo-ing like Ric Flair. Then Flyers fans were mean to poor Jacob Voracek. First Voracek said:

It’s childish and annoying and it’s really starting to piss me off. The first period they are f***ing wooing. What are you? F*cking 10 years old?

How dare people express concerns with such a comment on Twitter? Yeah, some of the Twitter responses probably went too far. But players are in their right to give fans crap for chanting out 'annoying' things at games? That's a painful double-standard.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

These guys are professional athletes. If paying customers want to let their opinions be known, and paid money to sit in the stands, they have a right to boo as much as they want when they receive a lower quality product than they expected. Even in service professions, paying clients are allowed to express their frustration, and the workers need to just suck it up and get yelled at, even if it's unfair. These guys get paid what, 2% of what an Eberle or Schultz is getting?

Obviously there's a difference between booing and crossing the line (ie. Eakins booing is absolutely acceptable and should be encouraged if anything, bullying Eakins' daughter is just embarassing). Oilers fans did not cross the line with the Eberle/Schultz situations, since the derision would have never started if they never gave us a reason to. Schultz and Eberle were loved in Edmonton at one point (Eberle up until his last season here in fact), the fanbase turned on them because they turned on the fanbase by not only underperforming, but seemingly not giving a full effort every game. Ales Hemsky got booed in Dallas and Montreal almost every shift (and probably should have been booed more as an Oiler given the garbage effort on display during his 2011-2014 stretch) because the dude was one of the laziest/poutiest/whiniest players to ever grace their stadiums. And yes, we get it, there's more to the story than a player simply giving up on the surface, who knows what was up with that Shipachyov situation. But the fact is we can only judge by what we see, and if I see Justin Schultz/Jordan Eberle/Ales Hemsky coasting on a consistent basis, I'm going to boo them. And the fact that Ales Hemsky was the most hated player by TWO fanbases (he managed to accomplish this in Montreal in 7 games too, I can't even fathom how bad he must have been) tells me that it might be the player that's the problem.

 

[CupofOil]

Do you recall the Chris Pronger's fire? It was reported the Schultz was shaken towards the end of his tour with Edmonton when he got bood everyone touched the puck

Maybe if Schultz put in some effort, he wouldn't have been booed.

Sorry but I'm not going to shed any tears for a millionaire athlete who can't take a little heat if he's not putting in an honest effort. If you perform well or at least play hard even if the results don't show, you won't get booed, it's as simple as that. There's a reason why grinders and even top 6 players like Smyth are adored in Edmonton, because they work their butt off and earn the respect of the fans especially in a blue collar town like Edmonton.

I get that these guys are human and there's a line that shouldn't be crossed (like all the ridiculous off the ice rumors, bothering family members etc.) but getting booed by paying customers who have had to endure years of a garbage product and players who half assed it on the ice doesn't qualify as "over the line". If a player doesn't understand that then that's his problem, not the fans. Players like Schultz and Eberle who grew up in Canada and know the level of fan passion in Canadian markets should understand this more than anybody. Don't expect to be coddled when you suck on the ice and if you want that, go play in obscurity in Arizona or Florida then.

 

[Drivesaitl]

for those who forgot the hanging of Jimmy Carson his first game back

Unloved in Canada, Carson Is Glad He Found a Way Out

"Read one sign, hanging next to a stuffed Oiler sweater with Carson's name on the back: "We Hang Wimps, Whiners and Quitters."

at the start of the game the stuff oiler sweater with carson on the back was hung lynching style at the start of the game near center ice upper deck--later it was just placed on the stairs

First of all thank you for writing the article and linking it here. I feel its reasonable for you to link to content like that because you are such a longterm contributer and participant here (not like the hf writers who never show up other than to link their blogs)

Interesting view. but in your writing style I feel that you are trying to emulate Lowetide through use of many, and vague references. In large part your references do not add to the story, they distract from it. Nor are the references innately connected with the context in which they are used.
Take a look at your post. You state "Jimmy Carson Hanged". Why state that inaccuracy? You are talking about an alleged sweater. You start out engaging in bait and switch hyperbole. That may elicit hits, but it isn't a respected or valid form of writing.

I chose this post to respond to because one always needs to be careful about unsubstantiated links. I recall this story. This is an outside journalist from LA, citing this sign. The problem is none of the actual beat writers, the local writers, corroborated the story and the story was not to my memory reported elsewhere.
Not to say info is substantiated if more writers report it as they are often working off the same story and merely replicate it. More the case I knew lots of STH at the time. I don't know one fan that actually saw this Jimmy Carson sign, just saying.

I think more the case the article by the LA Times writer was meant to ascribe as country bumpkins prone to lynching. In anycase the alleged sign is being used to describe an atmosphere here. As if one sign does that. Theres idiots everywhere. I'm sure at the time that signs like that were allowed in rinks you could find them written most anywhere by some of the more dubious fans. I know a lot of fans that felt sorry for Carson and liked his contribution here and still found a way to admire his skill.

So I use this specific to comment on your article and that when writing a narrative it becomes just that. A particular depiction of reality, and not necessarily that sum reality. For sure there are points that are clear. For instance the Eberle first hand statements. Information from actual players quoted from source and wherein the comments are not disputed by the player is valid information. But its still just comment and individual perspective as in Eberle felt that way. Does it mean that fans are brutal, intimidating, etc, or that Eberle felt that way.

Pro sports in present times are tame in NA. These are sanitized safe environments from what they used to be. There used to be Riots in NHL rinks and surrounding area. I mean fullscale riots. For instance the Richard Riots. Clarence Campbell at one point fearing for his life in the stands but feeling it was important enough to attend a game at the Forum. How would a present day player feel about the Broadstreet Bullies and fan placards that actually exorted violence to any opponent and cheering a collection of players brought in to mete out that violence. A not irregular moment during the Bullies tenure was full scale and unending brawls on the ice and with one incident (again in Montreal) resulting in "here come the police onto the ice"

What Eberle, and any player here recently largely experience is perhaps tame to what used to occur.

 

[frag2]

What Eberle, and any player here recently largely experience is perhaps tame to what used to occur.

We're living in a society where everyone is super sensitive or as the unpopular term, snowflake. Hell, telling someone fat that they should go to the gym for health reasons is considered fat shaming/body shaming

 

[Drivesaitl]

^^ Russians are soccer mad all of Europe is, in Sweden Soccer is way bigger than hockey , I find it rather insulting JTS trying to make Canadians look unreasonable when it comes to sports when he lives in England who has a long history of fan violence, Why the Ugly Spectacle of Fan Violence Has Returned to Soccer

I didn't really read that into it. I think JTS was talking about more dynamics and not slamming one region or other. Just that Hockey in Canada is a fanatic experience. Soccer is in Europe and many places in the world. To that effect JTS not tarring any particular continent, just fanaticism.

That said hooliganism in Europe is a very complex phenomenon, and Europe is a very different continent than NA. For instance Europe having, tribal, feudal, war like lineage throughout recorded history. Some of the battles are fairly patterned after prior nationalism, or feudal or civic clashes. Sociopolitically Europe also has more established class tension established through centuries vs the much newer North America which essentially represents a "do over' continent to most that settled here. Europe has milleniums of baggage. North America doesn't really have anything on that scale in terms of longterm learned bitterness. (we're only just learning...)

 

[Drivesaitl]

We're living in a society where everyone is super sensitive or as the unpopular term, snowflake. Hell, telling someone fat that they should go to the gym for health reasons is considered fat shaming/body shaming

What the hell do you mean by that...



jk

 

[Lacaar]

Canada is no more hockey mad than many successful franchise is in NFL are football mad.. or baseball.

All this article really is .. is an indictment on the players being mentally softer than other professional athletes.

While hockey fans praise our players for being physically tough. Hockey players also in general are mentaly weak if they can't hack it in high pressure cities.
This isn't an issue in Baseball, Basketball, NFL. But it seems to be an issue in hockey.

I do believe it's a thing. These American cities that don't really give two shits about hockey that have wildly successful teams. Players that give effort you don't see on a Canadian franchise.
Players on the ducks bust their balls every game. Why? why do they try so damn hard in that city and come to Canada and play like a horses ass?

Canada is at a disadvantage because the mental fortitude of hockey players is piss f***ing poor.
Hence no cups and in general much worse regular season performances.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Canada is no more hockey mad than many successful franchise is in NFL are football mad.. or baseball.

All this article really is .. is an indictment on the players being mentally softer than other professional athletes.

While hockey fans praise our players for being physically tough. Hockey players also in general are mentaly weak if they can't hack it in high pressure cities.
This isn't an issue in Baseball, Basketball, NFL. But it seems to be an issue in hockey.

I do believe it's a thing. These American cities that don't really give two ****s about hockey that have wildly successful teams. Players that give effort you don't see on a Canadian franchise.
Players on the ducks bust their balls every game. Why? why do they try so damn hard in that city and come to Canada and play like a horses ass?

Canada is at a disadvantage because the mental fortitude of hockey players is piss ****ing poor.
Hence no cups and in general much worse regular season performances.

Its really important in this discussion to preface this comment. Hockey, particularly, has transitioned in NA. Its increasingly changed from a working class sport played by almost every kid to a sport that more and more is contested by privileged players with better helicopter parents willing to do more, and sacrifice more in cost, time, equipment, etc, to their child. So that in present day the effort required to produce an NHL player is not at all unlike what it would have took to help a musical prodigy develop in past times. Its to the extent of parents sacrificing large parts of their lives to this one endeavor. Working class do not have the resources, time, or luxury to do that.

So players in the NHL are much more the progeny of advantaged privileged class. Less exposed to the worst schools, the worst neighborhoods etc. Players of yesteryear had an inate familiarity with blood. They saw it on the school field pretty much every day. Before the 80's that was a large part of growing up. Kids being on their own, limited protection. School administrations looking the other way, parents not that much concerned what was going on. Society has changed, and pro hockey catchment has changed significantly. In the 60's or 70's every player in the NHL had seen widespread carnage on and off the ice and had been part of it. There was innocence to violence.

That present day players possess, invariably more of that innocence, and are not innately familiar with violence or extreme reactions is mostly a positive thing.

The premise I responded to is wrong. There are few sports more intimidating to play than hockey. (at least as used to be played) and few sports offer the possibilities of being paralyzed in an instant, or that feature skate blades that can maim and even kill and that allows bare knuckle fighting as part of it. Hockey is innately scary and like football, except with boards to slam into at high speed and weapons to use in your hands. Hockey is actually a gladiator sport compared to most pro sports. But todays gladiators increasingly have less familiarity with the art of war for good or for bad.

 

[booyakasha]

Yes Canadian fans are more rabid when it comes to hockey , now do a blog on European soccer fans compared to North American ones , you will get same results and even worse . Hockey is not huge in Europe . European Soccer they're more rabid than Canadian hockey fans.

Very true.
They still throw bananas at black players on the pitch FFS.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Very true.
They still throw bananas at black players on the pitch FFS.

In Central and South America it is not uncommon for fans to throw bags of shit and piss at opponents on the pitch. Decidedly worse.

Actually the degree to which Soccer routinely allows things to be thrown onto the pitch is astounding. Throw anything other than a hat onto the ice in the NHL and you'll be out of the rink quicker than you can get you coat on.

 

[booyakasha]

In Central and South America it is not uncommon for fans to throw bags of **** and piss at opponents on the pitch. Decidedly worse.

Actually the degree to which Soccer routinely allows things to be thrown onto the pitch is astounding. Throw anything other than a hat onto the ice in the NHL and you'll be out of the rink quicker than you can get you coat on.

Very true, and I am an Arsenal fan so the abuse that Wenger sees at pitches across England is beyond anything any hockey player or coach has had to endure in Canada.
It shocks me, that OP could write an article like this and said to live in England.

 

[Lacaar]

however poorly written or misremembered the stories are, there is a central point to this article that really sticks out like a sore thumb to the oilers fan base, and its because its true.

The fact that the actions of a few get spewed to make a fanbase feel bad is pathetic. That you endorse it is equally pathetic. Then you twist the bullying card in martyrdom to put words in someones mouth like they support bullying.

Kids picking on kids sucks. Are you telling me Dallas Eakins daughter getting bullied in Edmonton is the first and only incident where a head coaches child got picked on in the NHL?
Does taking a step back and thinking these things make you pro bullying? I don't think so but you clearly do.

Misremembering facts is not a good thing. Reporting things that didn't happen as factual is a far graver sin then some fans booing a player when he touches the puck.
This article is written using false information to crap on a fanbase. It's spreading lies and deceit to make an emotional impact on the fanbase through media. It's disgusting and the fact it's written by an Oiler fan is the worst action I've seen from a fan of the team if you want to only look at the facts.

Saying you'd like to burn Pronger's baby's crib on a message board isn't a good thing. It's poor taste and overzealous and should be frowned upon.
Now writing this as a fact on a media blog to full fill an agenda. That's disgusting. It's one of the dangers of free speech this blogosphere. There's no credibility needed or enforced like in the larger media outlets. When the blog gets exposed for being false it can just change the name.. fire the writer.. keep the writer under another name etc.

FACTS are important.

The central point to this article apply's to every fanbase for every team in every sport.
Don't be a douche to a player/athlete when dealing with them in person. It kind of apply's to some nice way to live life in general.

If the point of the article is to never boo a player and only cheer the positives.. then I missed it. correct me then.

 

[shoop]

I didn't really read that into it. I think JTS was talking about more dynamics and not slamming one region or other. Just that Hockey in Canada is a fanatic experience. Soccer is in Europe and many places in the world. To that effect JTS not tarring any particular continent, just fanaticism.

People are reading what they will into the blog post because it is muddled and tough to read.

The OP asked if people recalled the Pronger fire. There never was a Pronger fire. There was some jackaninny talking about it on HFBoards. That definitiely ain't burning somebody in effigy and doesn't even match what he doubled down on.

According to the OP it was 'reported' that Schultz was almost in tears. Reported by who? Reported where?

Lots of times players need a wakeup call. Kassian and Maroon both were gifted to the Oilers and have done really well. Doobie, Hall, Schultz and Eberle all needed a change of scenery. That doesn't mean they were "run out of town".

Not everybody is a good fit in Edmonton. The undubstantiated ramblings in the OP don't support the premise that " because you pay some money does not give you the right to treat people like ****."

How much money is involved? Is it too much effort to give actual examples that happened in real life of treating people poorly? The only example we have seen is the kid chirping Eakins and his kid. I stand by my assertion that kid who did that was a poorly-raised little bastard.

If you want to use HFOil to drive traffic to your ramblings make them worth the read.

 

[Senor Catface]

You really need to edit your stuff.

 

[Drivesaitl]

People are reading what they will into the blog post because it is muddled and tough to read.

The OP asked if people recalled the Pronger fire. There never was a Pronger fire. There was some jackaninny talking about it on HFBoards. That definitiely ain't burning somebody in effigy and doesn't even match what he doubled down on.

According to the OP it was 'reported' that Schultz was almost in tears. Reported by who? Reported where?

Lots of times players need a wakeup call. Kassian and Maroon both were gifted to the Oilers and have done really well. Doobie, Hall, Schultz and Eberle all needed a change of scenery. That doesn't mean they were "run out of town".

Not everybody is a good fit in Edmonton. The undubstantiated ramblings in the OP don't support the premise that " because you pay some money does not give you the right to treat people like ****."

How much money is involved? Is it too much effort to give actual examples that happened in real life of treating people poorly? The only example we have seen is the kid chirping Eakins and his kid. I stand by my assertion that kid who did that was a poorly-raised little bastard.

If you want to use HFOil to drive traffic to your ramblings make them worth the read.

If you read my other comments I do critique the narrative and specifically call out post #23, by the OP, which at best is a lie about the "Hanging of Jimmy Carson"

That the author is willing to misinform, even in this thread, I used as evidence of his similar misinformation contained in the article and his apparent want to do that throughout.

You are of course correct that the author is mis-labeling, misinferring, and misrepresenting, in the article, and here.

 

[Jumptheshark]

If you read my other comments I do critique the narrative and specifically call out post #23, by the OP, which at best is a lie about the "Hanging of Jimmy Carson"

That the author is willing to misinform, even in this thread, I used as evidence of his similar misinformation contained in the article and his apparent want to do that throughout.

You are of course correct that the author is mis-labeling, misinferring, and misrepresenting, in the article, and here.

I was at that game and on the effigy was a sign that said "we hang whimps, whiners and quitters"

Northlands staff made the guy pull it up right after they saw it and it spent the rest of the game still in open view

 

[bobbythebrain]

Eberle took all the millions and support they were given while being the saddest team in the history of the league but when it finally came to the playoffs, what meant everything to the fans(and to most players) he gave nothing out there to give back. Not a hit, not an effort, nothing. I’d write an article about the mentality behind the athlete who feels he owes the fans nothing. Thanks for all the money but your city is cold and the night clubs suck, so I’m going to go elsewhere the minute I can because no one cares who I am there but please keep watching and bugging the new guys up there because it’s the only way I still get paid this much money down here. It’s a rare player who actually gives a **** about his teams city, so why do we have to ultimately give a **** about them? Again, I don’t yell, boo or ever interact with them when I see them in public but they take every opportunity to remind us it’s just a business and in the business of sports, the customer is buying the right to act as he pleases within obvious limitations.

And the comment about so and so with a teammates wife, the two degrees of separation in Edmonton isn’t just the unwashed. My buddies play on the Eagles with Ryan Smyth. My friends dad played pro and is besties with Ken Hitchcock and Al Hamilton. Dramas involving the team, like Nurse and Drai’s this year are known, and not everyone shows the respect of discretion, so that just is what it is.

Such a terrible argument basing a career on one playoffs. The amount of fantastic players who had a poor playoffs is countless. Maybe they should all get traded or sent to the KHL

And to say most players don't care about their team and city is ridiculous

 

[nabob]

Meh. The fans love you when you're a winner and not so much when you're a loser. The team were losers for most of Eberle's tenure. Then when the team got good in his last season, he continued to play like a loser.

Schultz obviously quit on the team, no one likes a quitter. Hell we weren't even as hard on him as Ducks fans were. They hated him so much that they even booed Nick Schultz every chance they could!

Pronger lied about the crib burning story so that he'd have something cool to say on the Jim Rome show.

We aren't that bad of a fan base. There's always a few idiots in every crowd, and you're talking about a crowd of a few hundred thousand if not million people who now have the anonymity of the internet to hide behind. Hell we welcomed Kassian with half open arms and he's a fan favorite now.