Post-Game Talk: Murray's first Win as a Leaf!, 5-2 leafs

[rocketman588]

Well you replied to something discussing Sparks, and everything else seemed to be about him, so that's odd. And still wrong. We immediately replaced McBackup, and then replaced the replacement for him a couple months later. If you mean replacing what he did in 2017-2018, nobody was ever going to do that, even McBackup himself.

We didn't have a useable back up goalie for a year and a half.

Just take my advice and copy paste Dubas made the move so I think it's great.

You just waste your time making stuff up to say that

 

[Gary Nylund]

Attempt to argue something
Get caught in a lie
Dig yourself in hole
Report person in attempt to get them banned when called out on it

Lather rinse repeat with you

Beyond a joke at this point

The bolded is 100% true and utterly disgraceful. This has happened to several people, myself included and if there was justice in this place then it's this guy who would receive a lengthy ban for his behaviour.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We didn't have a useable back up goalie for a year and a half.

Sure we did. We didn't have a long-term solution for that role, but McBackup wasn't a long-term solution to that role either. Funny enough, Hutchinson actually put up a higher SV% with us in 2018-2019 than McBackup had with Carolina.

 

[The Podium]

Sometimes people WATCH the game and come to an EDUCATED opinion, I guess you have a different system.

Sparks was constantly overplaying the puck, constantly out of position, constantly giving up big juicy rebounds. it isn't that he played great , it was that the other teams didn't take advantage of a fish out of water.

You're the type of guy who looks at a stat sheet and see's Kulemin score 30 goals and think, hey looks like we got an elite sniper.

You’re coming to your conclusion after the decision was made though….

You joined July 13th, 2022. Seems you accidently exposed your account to be a secondary account.

Haha got ‘em

 

[The Podium]

We get it dude it's a 1 or 0 proposition with you Dubas did it so it's a great move.

Can the same not be said for you? Except more 0s than 1s?

I’m hindsight the Sparks decision was obviously the wrong call, I don’t think anyone is disputing that. But put yourself in the same situation. You have a young drafted and developed prospect who won the AHL version of the Vezina, Jennings and Stanley Cup who was a risk of being lost to waivers. Alternatively you have a journey man backup goalie who had a career year in his late 30s and was a pending UFA. Who are you cutting ties with considering it was guaranteed one was going to be lost?

 

[rocketman588]

The bolded is 100% true and utterly disgraceful. This has happened to several people, myself included and if there was justice in this place then it's this guy who would receive a lengthy ban for his behaviour.

Yeppp I've said in the past there's some like Zeke who have a similar slant that you can actually have conversations with.

Then there's the alternative that we have in this case

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I said it took a year and a half to replace him meaning McElhaney

No one cares about the calder cup it's one off the least important titles in professional sports. The only reason you care about it is it's the only thing Dubas has won in his career. The fact that it's celebrated here by some as an accomplishment is hilarious

McElhaney played 33 games the year we waived him with a .912 and started 5 playoff games

Then played two more years in the league he quite obviously still had juice left his only issue with the leafs is that Kyle Dubas can't do his job properly

We get it dude it's a 1 or 0 proposition with you Dubas did it so it's a great move.

You might as well just copy and paste that for every post

Going out on a limb to guess you never paid too close of attention to Mc's career? Most anyone who ever tries to make that argument on "what we lost out on" clearly did not.

 

[rocketman588]

Can the same not be said for you? Except more 0s than 1s?

I’m hindsight the Sparks decision was obviously the wrong call, I don’t think anyone is disputing that. But put yourself in the same situation. You have a young drafted and developed prospect who won the AHL version of the Vezina, Jennings and Stanley Cup who was a risk of being lost to waivers. Alternatively you have a journey man backup goalie who had a career year in his late 30s and was a pending UFA. Who are you cutting ties with considering it was guaranteed one was going to be lost?

Our coach even thought it was the wrong decision and it was done in spite of him so no it's not justifiable

 

[The Podium]

Our coach even thought it was the wrong decision and it was done in spite of him so no it's not justifiable

Our coach who was fired months later and was favoring vets to a fault? Ya, let’s trust the guy who trusted Marleau in the last minute of game 7 over Auston Matthews when down a goal

 

[Dekes For Days]

Going out on a limb to guess you never paid too close of attention to Mc's career? Most anyone who ever tries to make that argument on "what we lost out on" clearly did not.

Yeah, it seems to be people who only watched his 18 games in 2017-2018, and for some reason expected that to be his normal.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Can the same not be said for you? Except more 0s than 1s?

I’m hindsight the Sparks decision was obviously the wrong call, I don’t think anyone is disputing that. But put yourself in the same situation. You have a young drafted and developed prospect who won the AHL version of the Vezina, Jennings and Stanley Cup who was a risk of being lost to waivers. Alternatively you have a journey man backup goalie who had a career year in his late 30s and was a pending UFA. Who are you cutting ties with considering it was guaranteed one was going to be lost?

Agree with this. Choice did not pan out whatsoever, but it is understandable why they went with it.

 

[ACC1224]

I said it took a year to replace McElhaney maybe you should read. He was not three obvious choice as McElhaney was one of the best back ups in the league the previous season. You have personally said multiple times that Lou's 103 point season doesn't count due to lucky back up goalie wins. Once again getting caught in a lie then doubling down on it quite the pattern

Everyone is aware that most of your brain power is used on one thought and that's "I love Kyle Dubas so anything he does is good”

It's why no one respects what you say because most of it is made up and incongruent and when you get called on you just dig yourself a bigger hole

Attempt to argue something
Get caught in a lie
Dig yourself in hole
Report person in attempt to get them banned when called out on it

Lather rinse repeat with you

Beyond a joke at this point

No one to blame but yourself. Stop responding like most everyone else has.

One thing for certain, Sparks didn't dress in Pittsburgh on Tuesday.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Can the same not be said for you? Except more 0s than 1s?

I’m hindsight the Sparks decision was obviously the wrong call, I don’t think anyone is disputing that. But put yourself in the same situation. You have a young drafted and developed prospect who won the AHL version of the Vezina, Jennings and Stanley Cup who was a risk of being lost to waivers. Alternatively you have a journey man backup goalie who had a career year in his late 30s and was a pending UFA. Who are you cutting ties with considering it was guaranteed one was going to be lost?

This makes a lot of sense to me. I know there are people that say Dubas made the wrong call keeping Sparks, that he should have knows that he couldn't cut it in the NHL etc. and while that might be true, you really need to be close to 100% sure in order to make that call because if you turn out to be wrong, it's just terrible. Losing out on a young goalie in order to keep an older pending UFA backup is just so bad.

IMHO, way too much has been made of this anyway. The problem with this team has been getting outscored 19-2 in the last 10 periods of game 7's, between the 1st Boston series and the MTL series, and who our backup goalie was for a time wouldn't have changed a damn thing. Dubas has made some mistakes but this one is really not a big deal. JMHO.

 

[rocketman588]

Our coach who was fired months later and was favoring vets to a fault? Ya, let’s trust the guy who trusted Marleau in the last minute of game 7 over Auston Matthews when down a goal

And our current church coach and GM have done what in game 7s

 

[The Podium]

This makes a lot of sense to me. I know there are people that say Dubas made the wrong call keeping Sparks, that he should have knows that he couldn't cut it in the NHL etc. and while that might be true, you really need to be close to 100% sure in order to make that call because if you turn out to be wrong, it's just terrible. Losing out on a young goalie in order to keep an older pending UFA backup is just so bad.

IMHO, way too much has been made of this anyway. The problem with this team has been getting outscored 19-2 in the last 10 periods of game 7's, between the 1st Boston series and the MTL series, and who our backup goalie was for a time wouldn't have changed a damn thing. Dubas has made some mistakes but this one is really not a big deal. JMHO.

It’s been a long time since this team has had that unsung hero who elevates his play well above his worth in the big moments. Like a Justin Williams type who is Mr clutch game 7.

And our current church coach and GM have done what in game 7s

Been employed by an NHL team in the last 3

Ultimately you know you lost the argument so you’re just making general criticisms… stop complaining about other posters not being able to admit when theyre wrong if you can’t do the same.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It’s been a long time since this team has had that unsung hero who elevates his play well above his worth in the big moments. Like a Justin Williams type who is Mr clutch game 7.

Not elevating the level of play is one thing, we've had the opposite. Getting outscored 19-2 in the most important moments of a 4 year span, that's some disgraceful shit. Never mind elevating, when the big moments arrived, we just stopped competing altogether.

I've been following this team for over 50 years now and this 19-2 span is the most embarrassing think I can remember. And considering everything Ballard did during that time, that's saying a lot!

 

[Judas Tavares]

This makes a lot of sense to me. I know there are people that say Dubas made the wrong call keeping Sparks, that he should have knows that he couldn't cut it in the NHL etc. and while that might be true, you really need to be close to 100% sure in order to make that call because if you turn out to be wrong, it's just terrible. Losing out on a young goalie in order to keep an older pending UFA backup is just so bad.

IMHO, way too much has been made of this anyway. The problem with this team has been getting outscored 19-2 in the last 10 periods of game 7's, between the 1st Boston series and the MTL series, and who our backup goalie was for a time wouldn't have changed a damn thing. Dubas has made some mistakes but this one is really not a big deal. JMHO.

Agree with the bolded. I find a lot here, there are complaints we don't draft/develop enough depth. But the second there is an opportunity to test it, this place becomes defensive. "Oh no, we are screwed if we put this guy in." How do ever know if you don't give them a chance?

Then they play one mediocre game and it's like "Well we got the win, but I've seen enough, hopefully we never have to rely on this guy again." Would love to have seen threads/posts on someone like Logan Thompson here, especially regarding his unusual path and after having goaltenders like Fleury and Lehner as your starters. "Goaltender for a Canadian University? Cmon! No chance, what a dumb decision, we'd be better off with Ayers!"

I know my example is an exaggeration and is mostly tongue in cheek, but I'm not far off..........

Also do agree, there are many larger fish to fry regarding things this place can quibble on, instead of something like the Sparks decision. But that's what we do here lol.

 

[The Podium]

Not elevating the level of play is one thing, we've had the opposite. Getting outscored 19-2 in the most important moments of a 4 year span, that's some disgraceful shit. Never mind elevating, when the big moments arrived, we just stopped competing altogether.

I've been following this team for over 50 years now and this 19-2 span is the most embarrassing think I can remember. And considering everything Ballard did during that time, that's saying a lot!

That’s fair. You would think at some point they’d just look in the mirror and say “it’s 1 game, win this 1 and all the noise stops”

 

[rocketman588]

It’s been a long time since this team has had that unsung hero who elevates his play well above his worth in the big moments. Like a Justin Williams type who is Mr clutch game 7.



Been employed by an NHL team in the last 3

Ultimately you know you lost the argument so you’re just making general criticisms… stop complaining about other posters not being able to admit when theyre wrong if you can’t do the same.

Yet have still won HHR

It’s been a long time since this team has had that unsung hero who elevates his play well above his worth in the big moments. Like a Justin Williams type who is Mr clutch game 7.



Been employed by an NHL team in the last 3

Ultimately you know you lost the argument so you’re just making general criticisms… stop complaining about other posters not being able to admit when theyre wrong if you can’t do the same.

Yet they've won the same number of playoff series as someone who was unemployed

Ultimately everyone knew that it was a dumb decision including the coach of the team even at the time people knew it was a risk

The only people who can't figure it out are those who are fans of the GM rather then the team

That’s fair. You would think at some point they’d just look in the mirror and say “it’s 1 game, win this 1 and all the noise stops”

Even better they can silence it if they could have won 5/6/7 vs Montreal then you don't have to put yourself in position. Or even against Tampa

It would be one thing if they were 3-1 down I think people get frustrated because of how many opportunities we've blown

 

[Gary Nylund]

That’s fair. You would think at some point they’d just look in the mirror and say “it’s 1 game, win this 1 and all the noise stops”

I know, right!

19-2 is just so insane, I can't even being to understand how something like that happens and it's enough to drive a man to drink. Much better against TB last season but still, another loss. Is it a lack of passion? Lack of desire? I have no idea, but one more 1st round loss and I don't see how it's possible to even consider running it back one more time. I'd rather trade 'em all, get a boatload of picks/prospects for M&M&M, tank, and start over again.

 

[The Podium]

Yet have still won HHR


Yet they've won the same number of playoff series as someone who was unemployed

Ultimately everyone knew that it was a dumb decision including the coach of the team even at the time people knew it was a risk

The only people who can't figure it out are those who are fans of the GM rather then the team

You still haven’t answered the question.

Put yourself in the position

A) Drafted developed prospect with the AHL equivalent of the Vezina, Jennings and Stanley Cup

Or

B) Pending UFA journeyman backup with a career year in his late 30s

Who are you losing to waivers?

 

[rocketman588]

You still haven’t answered the question.

Put yourself in the position

A) Drafted developed prospect with the AHL equivalent of the Vezina, Jennings and Stanley Cup

Or

B) Pending UFA journeyman backup with a career year in his late 30s

Who are you losing to waivers?

Sorry missed the question

You lose to waivers the player that will give you nhl franchise the best chance of winning.

It's pretty easy to see that it was McElhaney both on past and the performance that he had in the seasons after. McElhaney had been over a .910 for 4 of the previous 5 seasons

Your role as a GM is in part to work with your coach as well. You don't undermine him to take a gamble that sparks would work out.

 

[The Podium]

Sorry missed the question

You lose to waivers the player that will give you nhl franchise the best chance of winning.

It's pretty easy to see that it was McElhaney both on past and the performance that he had in the seasons after. McElhaney had been over a .910 for 4 of the previous 5 seasons

Your role as a GM is in part to work with your coach as well. You don't undermine him to take a gamble that sparks would work out.

So again, making the decision in hindsight.

You’re making the call to cut one of the best goaltending prospects in the entire NHL without giving him a chance.

My god man, are you too stubborn to admit that picking Sparks was a very rational decision at the time. How can you be so critical of Dekes being a devout supporter of Dubas if you are 100% critical?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sorry missed the question

You lose to waivers the player that will give you nhl franchise the best chance of winning.

It's pretty easy to see that it was McElhaney both on past and the performance that he had in the seasons after. McElhaney had been over a .910 for 4 of the previous 5 seasons

Your role as a GM is in part to work with your coach as well. You don't undermine him to take a gamble that sparks would work out.

This might be too simplistic. Should consider short term, but also the long term and to be fair, the chances of McBackup being of any value whatsoever to us in the long term was zero.

I would also say that to say keeping Sparks = "undermining" the coach is just wrong. I'm pretty sure the coach and GM are both doing their best to build a winner here, the only difference is perhaps that the GM has to consider both the short term and the long term, while the coach is focused mostly on the short term. But when the GM makes a decision where long term thinking is a part of it, that doesn't means he's undermining the coach, it just means he's doing his job.

 

[rocketman588]

So again, making the decision in hindsight.

You’re making the call to cut one of the best goaltending prospects in the entire NHL without giving him a chance.

My god man, are you too stubborn to admit that picking Sparks was a very rational decision at the time. How can you be so critical of Dekes being a devout supporter of Dubas if you are 100% critical?

Looking at the facts at the time that McElhaney was a great NHL back up and Sparks was a gamble isn't hind sight that's using logical thinking. It was keep a bonified nhl top end back up or play a gamble in his d plus 7 year.

Was a pretty obvious choice at the time in addition to being confirmed by how it ended up working out

This might be too simplistic. Should consider short term, but also the long term and to be fair, the chances of McBackup being of any value whatsoever to us in the long term was zero.

I would also say that to say keeping Sparks = "undermining" the coach is just wrong. I'm pretty sure the coach and GM are both doing their best to build a winner here, the only difference is perhaps that the GM has to consider both the short term and the long term, while the coach is focused mostly on the short term. But when the GM makes a decision where long term thinking is a part of it, that doesn't means he's undermining the coach, it just means he's doing his job.

Makes sense however people are over estimating how much of a prospect sparks was because of the AHL season. Which is why he was in the league long enough to be waiver eligible in the first place