Proposal: MTL & NJ

[Ledge And Dairy]

Sure being good at skating doesn’t necessarily make you good at hockey. But being good at skating and scoring 62 pts pretty much says you are very good at hockey. I agree that Matheson is not exceptional in his own end but saying his game outside the PP is worth a 3rd which is what I was answering to is being clueless

He had 21 points at 5v5 and 29 points on the power play. He is pretty much a power play specialist with those numbers. Even Erik Gustafsson had 35 of his 60 points at 5v5 in 18/19 and he only got a 3rd 1 year later.

 

[dgibb10]

He had 21 points at 5v5 and 29 points on the power play. He is pretty much a power play specialist with those numbers. Even Erik Gustafsson had 35 of his 60 points at 5v5 in 18/19 and he only got a 3rd 1 year later.

Beware, a number of Habs fans don't like when you mention that being the QB of a power play that's ranked 27th and 29th during his time there for 4+ minutes a night isn't adding much value.

 

[TBF1972]

Guys I have in mind for a 4th line alongside Lazar:

Trenin, Evans, Sturm, Eller, Duhaime, Malensteyn, Boqvist, Martinook, Joshua, Cousins, etc. You got any other guys to add to the list of names to think about?

this should be a topic for the devils board

Is it bad that I want Maroon back?

as long as your nostalgia doesn't scream corey ...

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don’t care about this debate but bro, really, you’re going with this as proof of anything?

Pre-season isn’t real NHL hockey.

Dis pu miss where i discussed his 2C level play down the stretch in 2022/2024? Or did you purposely ignore it? He was a beast!

Beware, a number of Habs fans don't like when you mention that being the QB of a power play that's ranked 27th and 29th during his time there for 4+ minutes a night isn't adding much value.

So you think Matheson is an effective PPQB? What’s your point?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

You'd think Newhook would be the prime example to him of how taking a guy buried on the depth chart (like Holtz) who clearly has a ton of talent can lead to great results when given more opportunities on a worse team.

But no.

Newhook is an elite skater. Holtz is a terrible skater. Avs were a great team yes. Devils are a crap team. Holtz was a part of that (using your logic)

I didn’t like the trade at the time but Newhook surpassed expectations. I don’t see top 6 potential in Holtz (poor man’s Toffoli. Because Newhook excelled doesn’t mean Holtz will. Totally different players.

I 100% agree that Guhle shouldn't be traded.

I just don't think, if he were to be traded, that he fetches a proven 1st liner without montreal adding, unless you're talking about Zegras. But Anaheim fans wouldn't like that (and I'd rather have Guhle).

1st line young wingers have generally more value than 2nd pair dmen.

zegras has proven far more than Mercer. So why is Guhle suddenly worth Zegras but not Mercer. I believe you were asking for an add to Guhle to get Mercer! lol

 

[Scintillating10]

Would Devils trade Meier to switch picks?

 

[HugeInTheShire]

zegras has proven far more than Mercer. So why is Guhle suddenly worth Zegras but not Mercer. I believe you were asking for an add to Guhle to get Mercer! lol

In 4 seasons: Games: 211, Goals: 55 Assists: 99 Points: 154
In 3 seasons: Games: 246 Goals: 64 Assists: 67 Points: 131

One of these has proven far more than the other.

 

[Xirik]

Would Devils trade Meier to switch picks?

No.

The drop-off in talent from 5-10 isn't that large so I think the Devils are good standing where they are.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Would Devils trade Meier to switch picks?

absolutely not

 

[dgibb10]

Newhook is an elite skater. Holtz is a terrible skater. Avs were a great team yes. Devils are a crap team. Holtz was a part of that (using your logic)

I didn’t like the trade at the time but Newhook surpassed expectations. I don’t see top 6 potential in Holtz (poor man’s Toffoli. Because Newhook excelled doesn’t mean Holtz will. Totally different players.


zegras has proven far more than Mercer. So why is Guhle suddenly worth Zegras but not Mercer. I believe you were asking for an add to Guhle to get Mercer! lol

Mercer has been better than zegras in each of the past 2 years and is a year younger. Zegras being absolutely awful defensively plays a factor, as does his contract which is meh value at best for an RFA

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Mercer has been better than zegras in each of the past 2 years and is a year younger. Zegras being absolutely awful defensively plays a factor, as does his contract which is meh value at best for an RFA

Really, Mercer was better than Zegras each of the last 2 years?

Zegras has two 60+ point seasons. Mercer has never sniffed 60 points ever.

This season, in 31 games, Zegras was only a -1 compared to a cumulative combined Team -227. Mercer this season was a -26, second worst on the Devils this year. He was the very definition of terrible defensively!

While plus/minus is a team stat, you can use it when comparing players on the same team from a relative perspective.

You over rate Mercer massively! If i had a choice between Zegras or Mercer, it would Zegras hands down. I think the majority of non-NJ/Ana fans would easily pick Zegras.

 

[Lockin17]

Newhook is an elite skater. Holtz is a terrible skater. Avs were a great team yes. Devils are a crap team. Holtz was a part of that (using your logic)

I didn’t like the trade at the time but Newhook surpassed expectations. I don’t see top 6 potential in Holtz (poor man’s Toffoli. Because Newhook excelled doesn’t mean Holtz will. Totally different players.


zegras has proven far more than Mercer. So why is Guhle suddenly worth Zegras but not Mercer. I believe you were asking for an add to Guhle to get Mercer! lol

well said ...

 

[dgibb10]

Really, Mercer was better than Zegras each of the last 2 years?

Zegras has two 60+ point seasons. Mercer has never sniffed 60 points ever.

This season, in 31 games, Zegras was only a -1 compared to a cumulative combined Team -227. Mercer this season was a -26, second worst on the Devils this year. He was the very definition of terrible defensively!

While plus/minus is a team stat, you can use it when comparing players on the same team from a relative perspective.

You over rate Mercer massively! If i had a choice between Zegras or Mercer, it would Zegras hands down. I think the majority of non-NJ/Ana fans would easily pick Zegras.

Mercer got 57 points lmao last year. and 27 goals. With quality defense. Without PP1 time. That is better than any Zegras year. If you want to go after Zegras go ahead. I don't think he's worth it

+/- lmao. Says it all.

And again, Zegras is a year older, and as I stated I'm not a big fan of his contract. Pretty shit value on an RFA tbh

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Mercer got 57 points lmao last year. and 27 goals. With quality defense. Without PP1 time. That is better than any Zegras year. If you want to go after Zegras go ahead. I don't think he's worth it

+/- lmao. Says it all.

Mercer was god awful defensively. Bad Corsi-rel. Awful plus/minus. He was the epitomy of terrible defensively. Mercer has never sniffed 60+ seasons while Zegras has done it twice.

You can't claim Mercer was good defensively this season. If you do claim it, you are lying to yourself. Plus/Minus matters when comparing amongst players on the same team!

Everyone (outside of homer NJ fans) pick Zegras. Its a no-brainer.

 

[Scintillating10]

Mercer has been better than zegras in each of the past 2 years and is a year younger. Zegras being absolutely awful defensively plays a factor, as does his contract which is meh value at best for an RFA

Mercer had 33 points in 82 games on better team. How's he out playing Zegras?

 

[HabsAddict]

Other then my concern that Zegras will be a mercenary and hard to sign long term, I would pick Z over Mercer.

Our problem is the most tradeable assets are developing defenseman and far from their full potential and of course, appeal as trade bait.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Mercer is not a particularly good defensive player. He is an okay PKer, but 5 on 5 his defense leaves much to be desired. However, he is better defensively than Zegras. Zegras is better offensively though.

But to say Mercer "has never sniffed 60 points" is also crazy, since he had 56 literally last year lol at 21 years old.

 

[dgibb10]

Mercer had 33 points in 82 games on better team. How's he out playing Zegras?

Zegras was on pace for 39 points despite getting PP1 time.

Again, also a year older, and I'm not a big fan of his contract or his defensive play.

If you prefer Zegras that is understandable. I'd rather have both Mercer and Guhle over him

Mercer is not a particularly good defensive player. He is an okay PKer, but 5 on 5 his defense leaves much to be desired. However, he is better defensively than Zegras. Zegras is better offensively though.

But to say Mercer "has never sniffed 60 points" is also crazy, since he had 56 literally last year lol at 21 years old.

57 points last year despite 110 fewer minutes on the power play (also those minutes are PP2 minutes which are significantly harder to score with than PP1 minutes) than Zegras.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Zegras was on pace for 39 points despite getting PP1 time.

Again, also a year older, and I'm not a big fan of his contract or his defensive play.

If you prefer Zegras that is understandable. I'd rather have both Mercer and Guhle over him


57 points last year despite 110 fewer minutes on the power play (also those minutes are PP2 minutes which are significantly harder to score with than PP1 minutes) than Zegras.

Mercer had a lower expected goals% when he was on ice vs off this season. He was a defensive liability. Zegras had a higher expected goals when on ice than off. He was not a liability to the Ducks.

No one would take mercer iver Zegras. That is preposterous!

 

[My3Sons]

Why is Zegras being discussed in a thread that’s ostensibly about MTL and NJ? Can’t this be closed at this point? Maybe someone can start a thread for “The players on my team that didn’t make the playoffs are much better than the players in your team that also didn’t make the playoffs” so people can have these pointless repetitive and predictable arguments that boil down to subjective opinions. And we can’t forget the editorial insults. It’s important someone else’s opinion he mocked.

 

[dgibb10]

Why is Zegras being discussed in a thread that’s ostensibly about MTL and NJ? Can’t this be closed at this point? Maybe someone can start a thread for “The players on my team that didn’t make the playoffs are much better than the players in your team that also didn’t make the playoffs” so people can have these pointless repetitive and predictable arguments that boil down to subjective opinions. And we can’t forget the editorial insults. It’s important someone else’s opinion he mocked.

Zegras came into it when I was trying to figure out what a person's definition of "proven young top line forward" as a trade value for Guhle. Zegras was the only reasonable one that came to mind value wise as a guy who you could define as that while still somewhat fitting value wise.

As the only other guys I'd consider fitting under that umbrella of 1st line guy, 2019 draft class or later (Hughes, Raymond, Laffy, Caufield, Boldy, Jarvis, Cozens, Bedard, beniers) wouldn't make too much sense.

So I asked if a Zegras is what they are viewing under that umbrella, and since I had previously said I would want an add from MTL in a Guhle Mercer swap, an MTL fan tried to turn it into a Zegras vs Mercer debate (in which I would prefer Mercer due to him being a year younger, better defensively, and a better goal scorer who should be able to be signed much cheaper than the 5.75x2 Zegras has left, although I can understand the perspective of preffering Zegras offensive upside, especially for a team like MTL who is looking for that scoring punch)

 

[Scintillating10]

Zegras was on pace for 39 points despite getting PP1 time.

Again, also a year older, and I'm not a big fan of his contract or his defensive play.

If you prefer Zegras that is understandable. I'd rather have both Mercer and Guhle over him

I'm not blown away by Mercer. Decent but not rushing out to trade for him.

 

[dgibb10]

I'm not blown away by Mercer. Decent but not rushing out to trade for him.

Understandable. I don't think he has a sky high ceiling, but imo Mercer will provide the most value towards winning a cup in the next 3 years or so, which is more important for NJD, but not as much for MTL

 

[HabsAddict]

For the Habs, our defense is looking to be shaping to be pretty "offensive" with Mailloux and Hutson. It's our front end that needs help to balance the team.

I'm NOT a fan of Zegras, I prefer Dach and Suzuki by miles and miles, but we do need game back breakers and Z is the most likely to fit that.

Maybe Mercer is a better choice for all around play and more in the Dach/Suzuki mold, but if Z makes a better offensive threat, even at the risk of slightly inferior 200ft game, I'll take it.

Again...I'm concerned about the longer term and signing him. Z came across as a pure mercenary in his last negotiations. Which means that hefty cost of a trade can be trashed in a few years. So maybe Mercer is a better choice for long term affordability.

Anyone have a crystal ball?

 

[dgibb10]

For the Habs, our defense is looking to be shaping to be pretty "offensive" with Mailloux and Hutson. It's our front end that needs help to balance the team.

I'm NOT a fan of Zegras, I prefer Dach and Suzuki by miles and miles, but we do need game back breakers and Z is the most likely to fit that.

Maybe Mercer is a better choice for all around play and more in the Dach/Suzuki mold, but if Z makes a better offensive threat, even at the risk of slightly inferior 200ft game, I'll take it.

Again...I'm concerned about the longer term and signing him. Z came across as a pure mercenary in his last negotiations. Which means that hefty cost of a trade can be trashed in a few years. So maybe Mercer is a better choice for long term affordability.

Anyone have a crystal ball?

I'd agree with all that.

For NJD i'd have it Mercer>Guhle>Zegras

For MTL I think I'd have it Guhle>Zegras>Mercer (just because of the current lefty surplus, although I could more than easily move Guhle to 3, depending on how Struble, Harris, Xhekaj, Hutson, etc are viewed)

For Anaheim I'd have it Zegras>Mercer>Guhle simply because they do not need another RD and because the star power and upside is important.

Every team should just keep their player