Proposal: MTL and CGY

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dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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A) using all strengths heavily weighs in PK starts and PP starts. Guhle does kill penalties yes, but not particularly well (it's one of my biggest concerns about him)
B) I have admitted Guhle plays a very hard role
C) Nemec once again gets more dzone starts than he does ozone starts

Guhle getting hard assignments on a bad team doesn't make Nemec sheltered.

And then you have to decide if you prefer good results in a normal role, or bad results in a very tough role
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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MTL : Guhle + Pitt 2nd 2025 + Avs 2nd 2024
for
CGY : #9 + Florida first pick 2025

Ghule would be a stud on CGY defense for years (no magic bean here) + 2 x 2nd

MTL gets #9 + Florida pick
MTL can spare Ghule with all the LHD comming up
So you're saying Calgary will give us Florida's 1st pick in 2025, so we get their 2025 1st pick, which could easily be a top 10 pick?

You're trying to get two top 10 picks for Guhle? Is that the plan of this trade? (No way Calgary does that).
 
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bud12

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Oct 8, 2012
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A) using all strengths heavily weighs in PK starts and PP starts. Guhle does kill penalties yes, but not particularly well (it's one of my biggest concerns about him)
B) I have admitted Guhle plays a very hard role
C) Nemec once again gets more dzone starts than he does ozone starts

Guhle getting hard assignments on a bad team doesn't make Nemec sheltered.

And then you have to decide if you prefer good results in a normal role, or bad results in a very tough role
Bad results? Bad on the pk??? Do you watch hockey?? Guhle have played great hockey again the best each day. His on ice play is the opposit of bad result.
 
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26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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This seems like trading a boat for a mystery box with the hope that inside the mystery box is a boat. The purpose of draft picks is to get young players like Guhle, the Habs would be foolish to trade Guhle for the 9th pick.
The trade is a farce. It will never happen. OP is trying to get the 9th OA pick this year, plus Calgary's 1st next year, which could be 2nd overall.

Right now we're getting either Florida's or Calgary's 2025 pick. But it's almost certainly the Panthers will make the playoffs and the Flames will be bottom 10, so we'll end up getting the Panther's bad pick. But, if Calgary were to already give us Florida's pick in this deal, we'd get their 2025 pick, which is looking to be top 10, in addition to the #9 pick in this year's draft. No way in hell calgary gives us their next two top 10 picks for Guhle.

I'd take them. But Calgary isn't giving them. Guhle's good. But we already have enough at LD without him and you can get really good players with two top 10 picks.
 

dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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Bad results? Bad on the pk??? Do you watch hockey?? Guhle have played great hockey again the best each day. His on ice play is the opposit of bad result.
Objectively, with Kaiden Guhle on the ice, Montreal does not generate many chances, and they give up a large number of chances against. This isn't Guhle's fault. As both of us have said, he isn't put in a great situation to succeed. But we cannot pretend that Guhle is getting great on ice results, because he simply isn't.
 

bud12

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Objectively, with Kaiden Guhle on the ice, Montreal does not generate many chances, and they give up a large number of chances against. This isn't Guhle's fault. As both of us have said, he isn't put in a great situation to succeed. But we cannot pretend that Guhle is getting great on ice results, because he simply isn't.
Of course you could if you watched him play
 

dgibb10

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Of course you could if you watched him play
I have watched plenty of Guhle. He is a very good young dman.

But you are trying to use Guhle's tough assignments as some kind of gotcha while ignoring that those tough assignments have led to him giving up many more chances against than he generates.
 

bud12

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I have watched plenty of Guhle. He is a very good young dman.

But you are trying to use Guhle's tough assignments as some kind of gotcha while ignoring that those tough assignments have led to him giving up many more chances against than he generates.
And you are trying to use habs poor advance stats to downplay Guhle. Of course they get outscored and outchanced, their a bottom team. Guhle have nothing to do with it. And I don't think he is a top pairing dman like I don't think Nemec is too.
 

dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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And you are trying to use habs poor advance stats to downplay Guhle. Of course they get outscored and outchanced, their a bottom team. Guhle have nothing to do with it. And I don't think he is a top pairing dman like I don't think Nemec is too.
I'm not. I have consistently said that what guhle has done in a tough role is very admirable. But if you're going to bring up his very tough assignments, you also need to acknowledge the lack of overall success in those assignments.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

DomBarr

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Apr 7, 2014
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MTL : Guhle + Pitt 2nd 2025 + Avs 2nd 2024
for
CGY : #9 + Florida first pick 2025

Ghule would be a stud on CGY defense for years (no magic bean here) + 2 x 2nd

MTL gets #9 + Florida pick
MTL can spare Ghule with all the LHD comming up

Trying to get Calgary to send Florida's pick to be sure to get Calgary's pick in the Monahan deal is the kind of thing people here might not notice, but NHL GMs will notice, for sure.
The Flames literally can't trade that Florida pick or their own 2025 and 2026 1st round picks because they are all locked because they are in a conditional trade that will not be resolved until end of next season.
 

bud12

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Oct 8, 2012
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I'm not. I have consistently said that what guhle has done in a tough role is very admirable. But if you're going to bring up his very tough assignments, you also need to acknowledge the lack of overall success in those assignments.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
And thats where I know that you didnt see him play even if you say so. Saying it was a lack of success is the opposite of the truth. Is personal play was a success, the team result was not and nothing he could have done would have changed that.

You can't say Nemec is a top pairing d while saying Guhle is not. Need to drop the homer glasses a bit
 

dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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And thats where I know that you didnt see him play even if you say so. Saying it was a lack of success is the opposite of the truth. Is personal play was a success, the team result was not and nothing he could have done would have changed that.
You appear to be misunderstanding what I mean by on ice results. The teams results were not good with guhle on the ice, the teams results were not good with guhle off the ice. Guhle played quite admirably

Again, Guhle is very good. However, from my view, a true top pairing dman would have put up better results. I hope montreal can get the rest of their shit together so Guhle can get a real fair shake at playing in a decent situation.
 

bud12

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Oct 8, 2012
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You appear to be misunderstanding what I mean by on ice results. The teams results were not good with guhle on the ice, the teams results were not good with guhle off the ice. Guhle played quite admirably

Again, Guhle is very good. However, from my view, a true top pairing dman would have put up better results. I hope montreal can get the rest of their shit together so Guhle can get a real fair shake at playing in a decent situation.
So you think a true top pairing like Nemec would have put better result?
 

dgibb10

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Feb 29, 2024
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So you think a true top pairing like Nemec would have put better result?
I think slightly better results yeah. Although it's tough to say how a 19 year old will fare in situations like that.

Some guys are built for different things however, so who knows. Nemec is a more offensive minded player so a defensive role would be less suited to him. Just like Guhle wouldn't fare as well in a role where he's relied on to put up offense.

I think the ideal fit for a role like what Guhle had from NJDs roster would have been John Marino.
 

bud12

Registered User
Oct 8, 2012
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I think slightly better results yeah. Although it's tough to say how a 19 year old will fare in situations like that.

Some guys are built for different things however, so who knows. Nemec is a more offensive minded player so a defensive role would be less suited to him. Just like Guhle wouldn't fare as well in a role where he's relied on to put up offense.

I think the ideal fit for a role like what Guhle had from NJDs roster would have been John Marino.
Of course you think that. I don't even know why I asked. Oh and just for you 5v5. Like a said, not close
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unicornBLOOD

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if the Habs were gonna move Guhle, they would get much more value than that, and I feel they would want immediate help, not futures in return.
 

pth2

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Jan 7, 2018
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The Flames literally can't trade that Florida pick or their own 2025 and 2026 1st round picks because they are all locked because they are in a conditional trade that will not be resolved until end of next season.
I know, i said so later in the thread, too.
 

Bond

Registered User
May 10, 2012
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So you're saying Calgary will give us Florida's 1st pick in 2025, so we get their 2025 1st pick, which could easily be a top 10 pick?

You're trying to get two top 10 picks for Guhle? Is that the plan of this trade?
Exactly. Any Habs fans turning this down are crazy to me. It would be Guhle for two top ten picks with odds being that the Flames pick will be even higher next year.
 

Baksfamous112

Registered User
Jul 21, 2016
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Exactly. Any Habs fans turning this down are crazy to me. It would be Guhle for two top ten picks with odds being that the Flames pick will be even higher next year.
I find it funny that Calgary 2025 1st is already a top 10 protected pick (but on the other side of protection) and that there’s no way they would ever overachieve and be a bubble team.

last years, Seattle were a top 3 pick guaranteed and they made the playoff. This year, Philly was a guaranteed top 3 pick and supposed to be the team with the best odds at Celibrini. They ended up being a bubble team.

Nothing is guaranteed in life, especially not a hockey team. New coach, a strong year from Huberdeau and Markstrom/Wolf and a couple of young gunz taking a big step and you could easily see Calgary being in the picture for a playoff spot.
 

Double Dion

Jets fan 28/06/2014
Feb 9, 2011
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I find it funny that Calgary 2025 1st is already a top 10 protected pick (but on the other side of protection) and that there’s no way they would ever overachieve and be a bubble team.

last years, Seattle were a top 3 pick guaranteed and they made the playoff. This year, Philly was a guaranteed top 3 pick and supposed to be the team with the best odds at Celibrini. They ended up being a bubble team.

Nothing is guaranteed in life, especially not a hockey team. New coach, a strong year from Huberdeau and Markstrom/Wolf and a couple of young gunz taking a big step and you could easily see Calgary being in the picture for a playoff spot.
Markstrom will be gone this summer. Huberdeau is cooked. I'd set the over under at 55 points for him. Wolf is the X factor. He's our only potentially elite piece. If Wolf goes Shesterkin of 2 years ago then we could be a bubble playoff team. We got career 30 goal seasons from Coleman, Sharangovich and Kadri. I guess you could expect more from Mangiapane and Andersson typically than we got this year, but pretty much everyone else played to the normal level or higher.
 

Ledge And Dairy

Registered User
No but he is able and he look good doing it. And he is not sheltered like Nemec. So again, if you think Nemec is a top pairing d, Guhle is definitly one.
Nemec was in no way sheltered this year. He played 1st pair because Hamilton went down for the season, then he played even more tough minutes when Marino went down. That kid is going to be as good as Ekblad, Slavin, and prime Ellis.

He didn't play as tough of minutes as Faber though, Faber will be McAvoy level good probably.
 
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