Proposal: MTL and CGY

[CanadienShark]

I'd put it at about 50%.

Looking at 2019 and earlier picks 9-12 for a quick look
2019: Zegras*, Boldy
2018: Bouchard, Dobson
2017: Tippett, Necas, Villardi*
2016: Sergachev
2015: meier, Rantanen, Crouse*
2014: Ehlers, Fiala
2013: Horvat, Nichushkin*
2012: Trouba, Forsberg
2011: Hamilton, Brodin
2010: Granlund, Fowler

* indicates guys I'm not sure about

I'd say those guys peg over what Guhle projects as.

And the advantage with the pick is the 2 extra ELC years you get that Guhle has already used up

You're missing asterisks on about half those guys.

 

[Egresch]

MTL : Guhle + Pitt 2nd 2025 + Avs 2nd 2024
for
CGY : #9 + Florida first pick 2025

Ghule would be a stud on CGY defense for years (no magic bean here) + 2 x 2nd

MTL gets #9 + Florida pick
MTL can spare Ghule with all the LHD comming up

Guhle is the only young D who is ready to eat big minutes. He is also playing well on right side, so he is literally the last piece that should be traded. Habs are trying to accelerate their rebuild and this is the exact opposite. Guhle will be a core piece of future D. Harris, Kovacevic, Savard, Struble even Matheson are candidates for trade, not Guhle.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You're missing asterisks on about half those guys.

Half of them? There are 17 names there without asterisks already, which 8 need them added?

 

[CanadienShark]

Half of them? There are 17 names there without asterisks already, which 8 need them added?

Tippett, Granlund, Fowler, Brodin, Trouba, Necas, Fiala, and Horvat.

 

[Benstheman]

People are forgetting Guhle just played his 21 yo season on the top pair, on his off side on top of that. And did a pretty decent job.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Tippett, Granlund, Fowler, Brodin, Trouba, Necas, Fiala, and Horvat.

Lmao, Guhle has potential to be a good top 4 defenseman but your bias is through the roof.
- Tippett literally just had a breakout season with 28 goals and 53 points in 78 games.
- Granlund you can probably make an argument for but he's definitely had some strong seasons including 3 60+ points ones
- You vastly underrate Fowler, your hope is that Guhle becomes him
- Brodin is one of the best skating, and best defensive dmen in the league
- Trouba, roughly around the same as Fowler
- Necas? Really?
- Fiala? Again really?
- Horvat? Wow man I just have no more words

 

[Gaud]

I think Guhle is not getting any love on HF boards. Kid's young but already playing like a vet. I think he will be mtl's 3rd D, and i say that because Hutson will probably be on the first pairing eventually. In fact, the only way id be more excited about those two is if one of them could be right handed - seems to me like they would complete each other well.

From the trade proposal, Guhle plus 2 X 2nds for a 9th overall and a 1st tells me Guhle is roughly worth a #9 in your opinion. While I agree Mtl has a lot of depth at D, getting rid of arguably our best makes no sense in the context that we aren't underutilizing him. I also don't see the point in making a rebuild if you trade assets you should be targetting for unknown quantities. Ultimately i think the risk is high and the return low

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

People are forgetting Guhle just played his 21 yo season on the top pair, on his off side on top of that. And did a pretty decent job.

I don't think anyone's forgetting that, when your d-core consists of 5 guys 23 and under someone is forced to take the next step. Alex Vlasic and Kevin Korchinski did the exact same thing in Chicago this year. McAvoy was playing 22 minutes a night at age 20

 

[bud12]

Lmao, Guhle has potential to be a good top 4 defenseman but your bias is through the roof.
- Tippett literally just had a breakout season with 28 goals and 53 points in 78 games.
- Granlund you can probably make an argument for but he's definitely had some strong seasons including 3 60+ points ones
- You vastly underrate Fowler, your hope is that Guhle becomes him
- Brodin is one of the best skating, and best defensive dmen in the league
- Trouba, roughly around the same as Fowler
- Necas? Really?
- Fiala? Again really?
- Horvat? Wow man I just have no more words

Guhle already play like that and more. Is potential in not top4 but top2. Out of the name you listed, he easily have more value than a winger like Tippett or Necas.

 

[HabsAddict]

I think Guhle is not getting any love on HF boards. Kid's young but already playing like a vet. I think he will be mtl's 3rd D, and i say that because Hutson will probably be on the first pairing eventually. In fact, the only way id be more excited about those two is if one of them could be right handed - seems to me like they would complete each other well.

From the trade proposal, Guhle plus 2 X 2nds for a 9th overall and a 1st tells me Guhle is roughly worth a #9 in your opinion. While I agree Mtl has a lot of depth at D, getting rid of arguably our best makes no sense in the context that we aren't underutilizing him. I also don't see the point in making a rebuild if you trade assets you should be targetting for unknown quantities. Ultimately i think the risk is high and the return low

This is literally...."Why can't you agree to trade Guhle for what I want? Because i really want him and you are not cooperating with my fantasies"

Then you have other team fans throwing in their anti-Habs biased opinion.

Guhle is not going anywhere unless it benefits the Habs. Period. End of fantasies.

Guhle already play like that and more. Is potential in not top4 but top2. Out of the name you listed, he easily have more value than a winger like Tippett or Necas.

Right now he's our number 1 and top 4 on any team and still has lots room to improve. Mainly his offense.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Guhle already play like that and more. Is potential in not top4 but top2. Out of the name you listed, he easily have more value than a winger like Tippett or Necas.

I didn't list the names lol. Tippett sure, I think that one is up in the air but Necas is clearly a step above him at this point in time and the debate was never about trade value. It was about players who were drafted between 9th and 12th OA (where Calgary will be picking) vs where Guhle is now. To gauge whether Guhle is worth more or less than 9th OA. I think 9th OA is about where his value is but some of your fellow fans seem to think he is worth way more. However that does not mean I think Montreal should trade him for 9th OA, nor does it mean I think Calgary should trade 9th OA for him. I think both teams would rather keep their own asset.

Guhle plays in the top 4 because he has to, if Montreal had the depth they would have eased him into the top 4 over a few years like NYR is doing with Schneider, or LA is doing with Clarke. I fully expect Guhle to be a legitimate top 4 NHLer, he's already playing the minutes, he will probably end up a similar caliber player to Hanifin (and me being someone who defended Hanifin for years consider that a big compliment).

 

[CanadienShark]

Lmao, Guhle has potential to be a good top 4 defenseman but your bias is through the roof.
- Tippett literally just had a breakout season with 28 goals and 53 points in 78 games.
- Granlund you can probably make an argument for but he's definitely had some strong seasons including 3 60+ points ones
- You vastly underrate Fowler, your hope is that Guhle becomes him
- Brodin is one of the best skating, and best defensive dmen in the league
- Trouba, roughly around the same as Fowler
- Necas? Really?
- Fiala? Again really?
- Horvat? Wow man I just have no more words

Cool, fun talk. You asked, I answered. We all have opinions. Yours seems outlandish to me.

 

[dgibb10]

I don't think anyone's forgetting that, when your d-core consists of 5 guys 23 and under someone is forced to take the next step. Alex Vlasic and Kevin Korchinski did the exact same thing in Chicago this year. McAvoy was playing 22 minutes a night at age 20

Exactly. Guhle certainly plays a very tough role with very little help. But Montreal fans are out here acting like he's dominating these minutes.

With Guhle on the ice Montreal gets dominated. Not Guhle's fault, but it's tough to evaluate.

Always tough to tell how to value a guy with meh/bad results in a very very tough situation, vs a guy dominating a muchh easier situation.

From watching Guhle I'd say he's a quality number 4 at this point.

Sure Guhle is playing 20:51 a night at age 22. Cam fowler was playing 22 minutes a night at age 19. Brodin was playing 24 minutes a night at age 20.

Guhle already play like that and more. Is potential in not top4 but top2. Out of the name you listed, he easily have more value than a winger like Tippett or Necas.

Jonas Brodin recieved norris votes at age 21 btw. He was playing 24 minutes a night at age 20
Fowler was playing 22+ minutes a night the second he entered the league at age 19.

 

[bud12]

Exactly. Guhle certainly plays a very tough role with very little help. But Montreal fans are out here acting like he's dominating these minutes.

With Guhle on the ice Montreal gets dominated. Not Guhle's fault, but it's tough to evaluate.

Always tough to tell how to value a guy with meh/bad results in a very very tough situation, vs a guy dominating a muchh easier situation.

From watching Guhle I'd say he's a quality number 4 at this point.

Sure Guhle is playing 20:51 a night at age 22. Cam fowler was playing 22 minutes a night at age 19. Brodin was playing 24 minutes a night at age 20.


Jonas Brodin recieved norris votes at age 21 btw. He was playing 24 minutes a night at age 20
Fowler was playing 22+ minutes a night the second he entered the league at age 19.

I didn't talk about Brodin or Fowler my friend. You sais on another thread that Nemec was a top pairing dman. If you consider him one, Guhle is definitely one too

 

[dgibb10]

I didn't talk about Brodin or Fowler my friend. You sais on another thread that Nemec was a top pairing dman. If you consider him one, Guhle is definitely one too

With Nemec on the ice NJD gets 52.6% of expected goals 5v5.
With Guhle on the ice montreal gets 45% of expected goals 5v5.

Top pairing RD and top pairing LD are also different.

I have Nemec around the 25-30 range for RHD.
I have Guhle around the 35-40 range for LHD

for context with an LHD, Luke Hughes played more than Guhle and I don't consider him a top pairing LD yet either

 

[Benstheman]

Exactly. Guhle certainly plays a very tough role with very little help. But Montreal fans are out here acting like he's dominating these minutes.

With Guhle on the ice Montreal gets dominated. Not Guhle's fault, but it's tough to evaluate.

Always tough to tell how to value a guy with meh/bad results in a very very tough situation, vs a guy dominating a muchh easier situation.

From watching Guhle I'd say he's a quality number 4 at this point.

Sure Guhle is playing 20:51 a night at age 22. Cam fowler was playing 22 minutes a night at age 19. Brodin was playing 24 minutes a night at age 20.


Jonas Brodin recieved norris votes at age 21 btw. He was playing 24 minutes a night at age 20
Fowler was playing 22+ minutes a night the second he entered the league at age 19.

Yes and they were all top pair D for their respective team for many years.

 

[dgibb10]

Yes and they were all top pair D for their respective team for many years.

Yep they were, which is why Guhle is probably a tier below them in terms of picks at that range.

 

[bud12]

With Nemec on the ice NJD gets 52.6% of expected goals 5v5.
With Guhle on the ice montreal gets 45% of expected goals 5v5.

Top pairing RD and top pairing LD are also different.

I have Nemec around the 25-30 range for RHD.
I have Guhle around the 35-40 range for LHD

for context with an LHD, Luke Hughes played more than Guhle and I don't consider him a top pairing LD yet either

not only Guhle play LD, he play RD too

 

[RC51]

while others were drafting forwards for the last 2-3 years. Habs have drafted tons of dmen. hoping to come up with 2-3 good ones. well for once the habs have luck on them. only Nilander did not pan out and is going back to europe ALL the rest have done very well.
Habs will keep at lease 4 the rest should be trade for good solid talent forwards of the same age. Nobody is getting free dmen or cheap cheap dmen for free no matter what posters say " bag of pucks" Hughes has a lot of good chips for trades at the draft or summer trades.
a lot of teams need good young dmen because they have NOTHING in their own prospect pool. Habs have a ton of draft picks for the next 2-3 years habs don't need more at ALL. Habs want good young TALENT at forward positions and I don't mean 10 goal guys try more like big 15-25 goal guys. If you want Hab prospects you have to pay up some quality guys.

 

[dgibb10]

not only Guhle play LD, he play RD too

Guhle is a LHD who has primarily played on the left side throughout his career. I certainly wouldn't take him as a top 30 RD playing on his off side

 

[bud12]

Guhle is a LHD who has primarily played on the left side throughout his career. I certainly wouldn't take him as a top 30 RD playing on his off side

No but he is able and he look good doing it. And he is not sheltered like Nemec. So again, if you think Nemec is a top pairing d, Guhle is definitly one.

 

[dgibb10]

No but he is able and he look good doing it. And he is not sheltered like Nemec. So again, if you think Nemec is a top pairing d, Guhle is definitly one.

Nemec has been in no way sheltered.

 

[bud12]

Nemec has been in no way sheltered.

Compared too Guhle yes. Just look is dzone start % on ofzone % start. Not close

 

[dgibb10]

Compared too Guhle yes. Just look is dzone start % on ofzone % start. Not close

Nemec has more Dzone starts than he does Ozone starts.

 

[bud12]

Not close