Moritz Seider

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

...You realize Seider was ranked the number one prospect earlier this year, right?

... yes, on a list from Craig Button, which left off Trevor Zegras and Jaime Drysdale because they were playing NHL hockey at the time. Not exactly an ironclad piece of evidence that Seider is far ahead of Zegras.

And is a nominee for top defenseman in the SHL? And won the Eliteprospect award in the SHL? And helped carry his team to the SHL finals?

It seems you're under the impression that I don't rate Seider highly or something, which is not the case. Both Seider and Zegras have had two excellent years following their top 10 selections, I don't think you could realistically ask for much more than they've both shown. Obviously Trevor Zegras isn't competing for awards in the SHL. He's playing pretty phenomenal hockey in an analogous league though. When looking at Zegras' performances this year I don't think it's unreasonable at all to suggest he'd have a similar impact to Seider had he played SHL hockey this year.

I'm not sure why folks are so defensive to admit that there it's simply too early to say who is the better player here, and that reasonable people could prefer Trevor Zegras.

 

[dtown77]

I'm not sure why folks are so defensive to admit that there it's simply too early to say who is the better player here, and that reasonable people could prefer Trevor Zegras.[/QUOTE]

Because they honestly believe you and they are dead wrong.. nothing wrong with that. We'll get an answer to this soon enough.

 

[Bench]

I'm not sure why folks are so defensive to admit that there it's simply too early to say who is the better player here, and that reasonable people could prefer Trevor Zegras.

And it's going to take some time to uncover. I'd implore people to be patient, even if they are on the hype train.

Interesting time machine looking at Hedman's progression from excellent young defender to bonafide star in his 5th year.

Victor Hedman emerges as a Lightning star

Denis Potvin is a Hall of Fame defenseman, one of the best to ever pull on a pair of skates. So he knows the game. He knows defense. He knows what a good defenseman looks like.

The way he sees it, it takes about 300 NHL games for a defenseman to figure out how to play the position. About 300 for the game to slow down and get easier.

It takes 300 games to become a star.

"Now,'' Potvin said, "look at how many games Victor Hedman has played.''

Well isn't this something? Tonight in Toronto, Hedman plays in his 304th NHL game.

In case you hadn't noticed, Hedman has become a star.

"Heddy has just come into his own,'' Lightning coach Jon Cooper said. "It's a tribute to him that he has weathered his ups and downs. He has weathered his critics.''

There were plenty of those in Hedman's first four seasons in the NHL. You tend to collect your share when you're the second overall pick and have the poor taste to not look like the next Bobby Orr right off the plane.
"That weighs on you,'' Cooper said.

Hedman heard the grumbling earlier in his career. No one called him a bust, but there were those who wondered if he was worth the second pick back in 2009.

He showed flashes of stardom, but eventually, fans grow tired of potential. They start looking back at the draft and lamenting the players the Lightning could have had.
"When you're drafted that high,'' Hedman said, "expectations are sky-high.''

Never mind that he was a mere 18 years old when he came over from his native Sweden. He was in a new country, a new culture, a new league — the best in the world. His man-sized frame (6 feet 6, 225 pounds) fooled us. It made us forget that he was still just a kid.
So we watched him and we thought he was okay defensively and not bad offensively and, overall, decent.

But when you're talking about the second pick, you expect more than okay and not bad and decent.

Even Hedman grew impatient.

"From the beginning, it has been tough,'' Hedman said. "This is my fifth season. It has taken a longer time than I wanted it to take.''

 

[wingfan]

Most dominant player at the WJC by a mile. 21 points in 17 AHL games as a 1C in his D+2 year.

You're biased if you think that Seider is head and shoulders above Zegras at this point.

I wasn't knocking Zegras in the slightest. The probability is higher that Zegras is there at 6 than Seider at this point if we were to re-draft today. With Seider's upside, size, intangibles, the fact that he's stepped in and been an all situations, minute munching 1D in multiple professional leagues with the advanced stats to back it up, teams reach for that kind of player. In a re-draft I think he goes 2/3 with Dach. I do think Zegras goes 4-6 in a re-draft.

 

[GMR]

Where would Seider be drafted if there's a re-draft today?

I'm guessing he goes over Kakko, Dach, and Turcotte. New Jersey is probably happy with how Jack Hughes improved in 2021. Does Seider still get drafted behind Byram?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Where would Seider be drafted if there's a re-draft today?

I'm guessing he goes over Kakko, Dach, and Turcotte. New Jersey is probably happy with how Jack Hughes improved in 2021. Does Seider still get drafted behind Byram?

In the too-early redraft on the prospects forum Seider and Dach were alternating 1/2 with Hughes as 3. Kakko slipped down to 10 or later on a lot of lists.

 

[GMR]

In the too-early redraft on the prospects forum Seider and Dach were alternating 1/2 with Hughes as 3. Kakko slipped down to 10 or later on a lot of lists.

Interesting. Do you remember when this redraft was done?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Interesting. Do you remember when this redraft was done?

Just looked. It wasn't the HFBoards redraft, comments about Seider and Dach moving up in a redraft. My mistake. Zegras was another that was consistently moving up as well, though.

 

[DoMakc]

I think Bultman brought up this topic in one of the latest podcasts and Iyer suggested that Seider would actually go even later as he woud take Cozens and maybe Zegras above Seider. But again that's Prashant Iyer and his take on prospects is usually based on how many points they score...

 

[jaster]

I think Bultman brought up this topic in one of the latest podcasts and Iyer suggested that Seider would actually go even later as he woud take Cozens and maybe Zegras above Seider. But again that's Prashant Iyer and his take on prospects is usually based on how many points they score...

I still listen to that podcast from time to time, but I've come to realize that Iyer doesn't often know what he's watching when he discusses individual players. And yeah, I think you're right, I think a large amount of his bias lies in point production.

Saying Seider would actually go lower in a redraft is idiocy.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I still listen to that podcast from time to time, but I've come to realize that Iyer doesn't often know what he's watching when he discusses individual players. And yeah, I think you're right, I think a large amount of his bias lies in point production.

Saying Seider would actually go lower in a redraft is idiocy.

That was the 2020 article of the 2019 redraft

 

[GMR]

Yeah, the Wings got lucky in hindsight. If we landed the #2 pick, is there any doubt Yzerman picks Kakko over Seider?

 

[Ricelund]

Yeah, the Wings got lucky in hindsight. If we landed the #2 pick, is there any doubt Yzerman picks Kakko over Seider?

@The Zetterberg Era might know.

 

[simonedvinsson]

Yeah, the Wings got lucky in hindsight. If we landed the #2 pick, is there any doubt Yzerman picks Kakko over Seider?

I wish that teams would release their draft lists 5 years after every draft.

 

[GMR]

I wish that teams would release their draft lists 5 years after every draft.

Would be fun. Unless you have a particularly "sensitive" player, like say, Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Inspiration]

Yeah, the Wings got lucky in hindsight. If we landed the #2 pick, is there any doubt Yzerman picks Kakko over Seider?

Yzerman did a draft night interview where he implied that the players picked #1-5 were the top five players on their board, with Seider at #6.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah, the Wings got lucky in hindsight. If we landed the #2 pick, is there any doubt Yzerman picks Kakko over Seider?

I doubt Yzerman takes Kakko. He was apparently very high on Kirby Dach.

 

[jkutswings]

I doubt Yzerman takes Kakko. He was apparently very high on Kirby Dach.

And if it's true that the GM really liked the two guys who are currently vying for top spot in a redraft a few years later (including having taken one of them), turn I can't really ask for more.

 

[FabricDetails]

I doubt Yzerman takes Kakko. He was apparently very high on Kirby Dach.

...I see what you did there...

 

[Bench]

Would be fun. Unless you have a particularly "sensitive" player, like say, Aaron Rodgers.

Omg is nowhere safe for me.

 

[GMR]

Yzerman did a draft night interview where he implied that the players picked #1-5 were the top five players on their board, with Seider at #6.

Thanks. So we did get lucky seemingly.

 

[Crunchy]

It seems you're under the impression that I don't rate Seider highly or something, which is not the case. Both Seider and Zegras have had two excellent years following their top 10 selections, I don't think you could realistically ask for much more than they've both shown. Obviously Trevor Zegras isn't competing for awards in the SHL. He's playing pretty phenomenal hockey in an analogous league though. When looking at Zegras' performances this year I don't think it's unreasonable at all to suggest he'd have a similar impact to Seider had he played SHL hockey this year.

I don't disagree with you here and there are many years yet to go in this debate, but I gotta think the AHL was a much worse league than in any recent year previous. What with players sitting on taxi squads all year. Boldy, Newhook, Tomasino, Jarvis all went over 1 ppg (albeit in smaller sample sizes than Zegras) with a lot of others doing very well for themselves as well. I'd be curious to see splits comparing a player's production from AHL this year vs. last year.

I've seen this glossed over a lot all over HF, so just using this post to say as much. Also will point out that Zegras was >.5 ppg in NHL, which is pretty damn nice. Didn't watch him, so can't say much on his 200' game.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I'm very pleased with the evenheadedness of Tom from 2019. Didn't rant and rave about Seider being taken, figured all the guys at that range were good players but weren't slam dunks to be awesome, and was completely sold on Moritz Seider because of his badass bowtie. Also, I forgot how much I enjoyed the Lassi Thompson pick later in the round. He's still a good boy.

 

[Ezekial]

No, I was in my living room but had my HF post all typed and ready on the outside chance we actually picked him. I heard Stevie say "Mannheim" and I shouted loud enough to scare my cat then hit send on my Wunderbar post.
I'm aware it was met with question marks or outright disappointment, but I was stoked.

PG 19: GDT: - Are You Ready to Rummmm...er, Draaaaaaft!

That thread is always fun to go back to, funny to see the typical haters with the worst hot takes.

 

[Bench]

That thread is always fun to go back to, funny to see the typical haters with the worst hot takes.

And I've been memeing about a goalie in the top 10 for awhile it seems.