Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[leafs in five]

Exactly, you can't demand all the money, tying the hands of the team to improve in other areas then just fail to perform when it matters, and then complain that there's no depth etc when your the reason there's no depth

Marner has complained about the Leafs having no depth?

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

No way Buffalo is helping the Leafs by trading Dahlin for Marner at market value. They might pay 75 cents on the dollar if the Leafs were willing to listen.

Absolutely nobody is giving us a #1D for Marner lmao. We'll be lucky to get a prime aged 2nd pair defenseman + picks. That's about as good a haul that we can hope for

 

[leafs in five]

IMO Marner's biggest fanboy's in no particular order are/were @Notsince67 , @666 , @ACC1224 and @DarkKnight (and one person on my ignore list). It seems that @DarkKnight has finally come to his senses but the other 3 are conspicuously absent today so who knows if they're still riding the "Marner is awesome" train.

still not a fan of the term fanboy?

 

[WilliamInLondon]

I honestly think for Marner's career success and peace of mind/happiness, he shouldn't play in Toronto. He's a heck of a talent, and I think he'll thrive in most places where there is less pressure.

I think it has proven time and time again, that you need a certain type of mindset and disposition to be able to succeed in Toronto. It's generally guys who have a lot of flair and self-confidence (Nylander) or proven winners who are calm under pressure (Belfour)

Players Who Have/Had "It":
- Nylander
- Belfour
- Cujo
- Sundin
- Knies (jury is still out, but he came across very well)
- Roberts

Neutral:
- Matthews
- Rielly
- Tavares
- Kaberle

Players Who Didn't/Don't Have "It":
- Kessel
- Marner (neutral at best)
- Campbell
- Samsonov
- Raycroft

 

[leafs in five]

maybe we could get a 2nd for Marner and flip it to Lou for Dobson

 

[Duffman955]

Marner definitely has the ability to be a huge difference maker.

I've seen it in some other playoffs. He looks checked out of Toronto tho. We need to move on

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I think some of the Marner-slander is getting ridiculous.

We have a 100 point winger that people want to run out of town for nothing and then if we're a worse team because we lost a 100 point winger people will complain.

Boring.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

You know, I talked a lot of smack about Pasta having no answer for our big dmen.

This remains a fact. He got beat down pretty bad.

But he never stopped trying. Even though he knew a guy like Edmundson is going to flatten him, he sucked it up and came for his licks and sent back down to the ground.

Marner....allergic to the inside in the playoffs. Running the playoffs through my head and I can't think of one time he attacked the inside. Even when he made some nice plays to open space he still refused to take it inside and opted for a pond hockey play instead.

3 points in 7 games with only 1 goal. 1 shot in game 7. A game where our goalie came through and only let in 1 regulation goal. Goaltending for game 7 was a major question mark. If Ilya can show up, anybody can.

Keep hearing "stop f***ing crying bro, just get the puck on net" like someone tried to tell him. To be fair he did setup 1 nice tip that almost put us up 2-0 but overall it wasn't a dynamic game.


He did nothing offensively past guys like AJ or Kap couldn't have done themselves hence the statement he wasn't dynamic. Those 2 mustered a nice play or 2 here and there. What's interesting though is that even those 2 would take the puck to the inside after they make a left side to right side how do you do with the puck.

I'm not making any absolute judgements , we will need to see how the off season goes and what players become available before I get on the trade wagon but objectively speaking Marner let us down big time.

 

[centipede2233]

No way Buffalo is helping the Leafs by trading Dahlin for Marner at market value. They might pay 75 cents on the dollar if the Leafs were willing to listen.

I know I sure as hell would. 75 cents on the dollar is a lot better then the .25 cents on the dollar dubas used to trade like

 

[centipede2233]

The leafs have scored more than 2 goals once in the last 14 playoff games and it was 3. If that stat doesn’t tell you we need significant changes I don’t know how else you could be convinced. The core 4 making almost half the cap plus your highest paid d man who sucks on the pp and pk, FML

 

[Farsailor]

I think some of the Marner-slander is getting ridiculous.

We have a 100 point winger that people want to run out of town for nothing and then if we're a worse team because we lost a 100 point winger people will complain.

For nothing? Ppl are suggesting Rasmus Dahlin like it is even possible .. If anything Marner is over rated in this forum.. (in order to be a 100 point winger you first have to score 100 points btw)

 

[sunstersun]

Everyone is saying go inside and play a more north south game.

Excuse me with what ability? He is small, weak, very afraid of any contact. He has a weak shot. He's slow. Even if he ends up with a new playstyle, why would he be good at it?

Compare that to Willy. Not saying he's seeking contact or something, but he's big, fast, and strong. Can take contact. Very strong shot.

Is it a pikachu rocket science ? No it's not. Willy can still develop. He's not quite put it together where he's a consistent 120 point player across a season. But that potential is obvious. We get him an actual centre and I bet 120 will happen.

With Marner, I'm asking what's going to change? Is he going grow taller?

 

[Divine]

For nothing? Ppl are suggesting Rasmus Dahlin like it is even possible .. If anything Marner is over rated in this forum.. (in order to be a 100 point winger you first have to score 100 points btw)

Ah the old Matthews isn’t a 50 goal scorer is back again

 

[Mess]

Even amongst Marner's most staunches supporters and fans, surely will now have to admit that Marner's preferred style of play, doesn't make him very effective come playoff time in a tough physical.

This was my belief dating back to draft time 2015, as a soft small skilled player that prefers to avoid contact and play on the perimeter, will struggle when real playoff hockey is concerned.

No questioning his skill and talent level to pile up regular season points, but if the ultimate goal is the Cup then counting on Marner to carry the load in counterintuitive based on his stature and playing style.

This is a rinse and repeat discussion after ever year's disappointing loss and when Marner's lack of contribution to that loss is analyzed.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I honestly think for Marner's career success and peace of mind/happiness, he shouldn't play in Toronto. He's a heck of a talent, and I think he'll thrive in most places where there is less pressure.

I think it has proven time and time again, that you need a certain type of mindset and disposition to be able to succeed in Toronto. It's generally guys who have a lot of flair and self-confidence (Nylander) or proven winners who are calm under pressure (Belfour)

Players Who Have/Had "It":
- Nylander
- Belfour
- Cujo
- Sundin
- Knies (jury is still out, but he came across very well)
- Roberts

Neutral:
- Matthews
- Rielly
- Tavares
- Kaberle

Players Who Didn't/Don't Have "It":
- Kessel
- Marner (neutral at best)
- Campbell
- Samsonov
- Raycroft

I would argue Rielly had "it" before this latest series.

Now? Not sure. He had a dreadful postseason by his standards.

 

[Stephen]

Listening to Dreger on TSN I think the reports of Marner’s demise and departure may have been exaggerated.

 

[centipede2233]

Everyone is saying go inside and play a more north south game.

Excuse me with what ability? He is small, weak, very afraid of any contact. He has a weak shot. He's slow. Even if he ends up with a new playstyle, why would he be good at it?

Compare that to Willy. Not saying he's seeking contact or something, but he's big, fast, and strong. Can take contact. Very strong shot.

Is it a pikachu rocket science ? No it's not. Willy can still develop. He's not quite put it together where he's a consistent 120 point player across a season. But that potential is obvious. We get him an actual centre and I bet 120 will happen.

With Marner, I'm asking what's going to change? Is he going grow taller?

Here’s a list of the best wingers on each recent cup winning team:

M.stone
Rantanen
Tarasenko
Ovechkin
Kessel
Kucherov
Kane
Zetterberg
Gaborik (LA)

With the exception of stone and Rantanen, all these wingers are high volume shot players who have a shoot first mentality. Even 100 assist kucherov shoots a lot and isn’t afraid to shoot. Stone and Rantanen are pass first but they are bigger and not averse to contact. That’s why marner is not ever going to be on a cup team with that caphit or near it

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner plays very similar to Mat Barzal. Difference is Marner gets more pts because he plays on a high powered team, while Barzal's best linemates over the years are Horvat, Lee or whichever random third guy is put on.

Both players are fast puckhandlers, pass first players, and avoid front of the net. They are perimeter players who will often struggle in the playoffs as their perimeter play and fancy drop passes looking for highlight reel pass and plays goals dries up in the playoffs.

They both have good shots. But when open, instead of zipping a wrist shot on net, they look to pass.

Barzal goes from about .9 ppg in the regular season to about .75 in the playoffs. Mitch goes from about 1.1 to about .9.

Barzal led his team in goals and assists this playoffs.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

I would argue Rielly had "it" before this latest series.

Now? Not sure. He had a dreadful postseason by his standards.

yeah, I agree in terms of how he played this series. I was actually more disappointed in what he did after Game 7. That final play was on him, Marner, and Samsonov - so I get why he may feel pissed or sad or whatever immediately after.

But he's the 'A' and was deemed captain material - it would have been good for him to own the outcome. Something that Nylander, Matthews, and Tavares (captain) did. I wasn't surprised that Marner avoided the media afterwards, but a bit surprised that Rielly did as well.

 

[Stephen]

Even amongst Marner's most staunches supporters and fans, surely will now have to admit that Marner's preferred style of play, doesn't make him very effective come playoff time in a tough physical.

This was my belief dating back to draft time 2015, as a soft small skilled player that prefers to avoid contact and play on the perimeter, will struggle when real playoff hockey is concerned.

Still remember that 2015 draft like a kid in a candy store but with no real right answer as to who to pick. We came unexpectedly close to the McDavid pick and that was devastating, but there were so many other things available. Marner or Strome. Who would fall to us? Do we even want Strome? Or Hanifin or Provorov. Or a darkhorse Werenski. Whispers of the Leafs liking Rantanen too.

In the end, Marner was the right choice and a home run. Maybe Rantanen was a grand slam but whatever. At the time it was just such an abstract problem but like you said the fear that Marner might not be a playoff guy came true.

 

[666]

IMO Marner's biggest fanboy's in no particular order are/were @Notsince67 , @666 , @ACC1224 and @DarkKnight (and one person on my ignore list). It seems that @DarkKnight has finally come to his senses but the other 3 are conspicuously absent today so who knows if they're still riding the "Marner is awesome" train.

I usually avoid this toxic cesspool when the Leafs lose so I'm flattered that you called me out and care about my opinion. Here is it. Nothing has changed just as I said before the playoffs even started. A few rough games and a few great games doesn't change anything.

Marner is a superstar and will be re-signed at about $12.5 and he and Matthews are the only untouchables.

Here is what you said hours before the last game.

We just played two of the best playoff games ever with this core. Hard to believe this is the same bunch of turkeys who couldn't be bothered to show up for game 4. I really, really hope they show up to play tomorrow night, as a long suffering Leaf fan I'm pretty damn sure I deserve their best effort more often than we've been getting it.

There's a game tomorrow night boys, be ready to play. GLG!!

And here is what you wrote hours after that game.

Time for Tre to show us he can do the job. The challenge is to get Marner to waive his NMC, and then get something back for him. If he can engineer a sign and trade so that Marner goes somewhere he's willing to commit to for 8 years and that team wants him badly enough that they'll give us something of decent value in return, I will worship at his feet. Marner probably won't want to waive but that's where you need to put pressure on him to do just that, that's where Tre needs to earn his money. And if he pressures him and Marner refuses to waive, then let the cupcake walk after next season. And if instead, he gives Marner an 8x12+ contract that dooms the team to another decade of irrelevance, he can rot in hell.

Balls in your court monsieur Treliving, show us what you've got.

Now, I could break down game tape for you but these two posts are an excellent proxy for all the Marner haters.

You guys appear to have A LOT of your self worth vested in the Leafs. I don't get it. I don't have friends or family who would put so much of their life into watching sports however I do have some family who put a ton of time into playing sports but that's healthy. I record the games fast forward through the commercials and intermissions and it costs me about 1.5 hours per game. The Leafs just aren't THAT important to me. As soon as they lose in the playoffs I stop watching. Hockey just isn't THAT important to me. I really don't belong here. You guys live the Leafs and spend a ton of time repeating yourselves in forums for some reason, it makes me wonder how horrible the rest of your lives are.

Now back to the wildly oscillating posts as they really do reflect the emotional roller coaster of the haters. When the Leafs are winning you guys love them. When they are losing you guys lose your minds and need someone to blame. You guys NEED to vent. You NEED someone to HATE. I don't. I've got a tee time.

There's no use is trying to convince you that Marner won't be re-signed because you need to get it out of your system which will literally take years. You all know that I'm right and that he'll be re-signed yet you post things that you know aren't going to happen. I have no idea why.

But here's the solution for you. All you have to do is imagine if the Leafs had gotten that OT goal and how you would be feeling today. Remember last year when we beat Tampa and we had the eating crow thread? It would have been even better because it would have been Boston. If one fluke goal (which is on Rielly and not Marner) in what was a great last few games is enough to flip or flop you guys again then you're just too emotional to begin with.

For all you haters, I really do feel sorry for you. He's going to get re-signed for big bucks and he should. Deal with it. Try to avoid the self reinforcing tribal circle jerk. Try to get outside. I highly recommend golf.

 

[leafs in five]

I feel sorry for all of us really, and our families

 

[IPS]

I usually avoid this toxic cesspool when the Leafs lose so I'm flattered that you called me out and care about my opinion. Here is it. Nothing has changed just as I said before the playoffs even started. A few rough games and a few great games doesn't change anything.

Marner is a superstar and will be re-signed at about $12.5 and he and Matthews are the only untouchables.

Here is what you said hours before the last game.



And here is what you wrote hours after that game.


Now, I could break down game tape for you but these two posts are an excellent proxy for all the Marner haters.

You guys appear to have A LOT of your self worth vested in the Leafs. I don't get it. I don't have friends or family who would put so much of their life into watching sports however I do have some family who put a ton of time into playing sports but that's healthy. I record the games fast forward through the commercials and intermissions and it costs me about 1.5 hours per game. The Leafs just aren't THAT important to me. As soon as they lose in the playoffs I stop watching. Hockey just isn't THAT important to me. I really don't belong here. You guys live the Leafs and spend a ton of time repeating yourselves in forums for some reason, it makes me wonder how horrible the rest of your lives are.

Now back to the wildly oscillating posts as they really do reflect the emotional roller coaster of the haters. When the Leafs are winning you guys love them. When they are losing you guys lose your minds need someone to blame. You guys NEED to vent. You NEED someone to HATE. I don't. I've got a tee time.

There's no use is trying to convince you that Marner won't be re-signed because you need to get it out of your system which will literally take years. You all know that I'm right and that he'll be re-signed yet you post things that you know aren't going to happen. I have no idea why.

But here's the solution for you. All you have to do is imagine if the Leafs had gotten that OT goal and how you would be feeling today. Remember last year when we beat Tampa and we had the eating crow thread? It would have been even better because it would have been Boston. If one fluke goal (which is on Rielly and not Marner) in what was a great last few games is enough to flip or flop you guys again then you're just too emotional to begin with.

For all you haters, I really do feel sorry for you. He's going to get re-signed for big bucks and he should. Deal with it. Try to avoid the self reinforcing tribal circle jerk. Try to get outside. I highly recommend golf.

Lol you seem legitimately more interested in Marner being on the team than the team actually winning anything.

Nowhere anywhere did you mention the incredibly terrible series Marner had. I think your ego won't let you admit that he was one of the biggest culprits of losing the series.

Anybody who criticizes Marner is a "hater" even though he put up a measley 3 points in 7 games and lost his check on the series winning goal.


I think you're very disconnected from the rest of the fanbase in your own little bubble there, you ever talk to other Leafs fans? Most of them are over this core 4.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

maybe we could get a 2nd for Marner and flip it to Lou for Dobson

What makes you think Lou wants any part of Mitch's bullshit, especially right before he goes to UFA??

You have two options:
1. Trade Mitch now that he has full control of where he will end up
2. Let him have a career year next year and let him walk for nothing

Yes, Mitch will be motivated next season by the only thing that gets him going: $$$$$$$$

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I have a hard time trying to convince myself Marner should be traded. Like, I know something's gotta give with this team. But talents like him are near impossible to find, draft, develop and/or sign.

But frig, the amount he will be seeking and signing for, coupled with his lacklustre playoff performances, certainly gives long pause for thought as to whether trading him and earmarking that money elsewhere would be best for the team in the long-run. Between his salary, Tavares's coming off next year, and the incremental salary cap increases -- that could go a long way in filling the holes and rounding out the roster in a much different way than what's been thrown out there the last six years.