Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Gary Nylund]

This is the exact same approach I take.

I understand emotion gets the best, but I try not to get too caught up by someone having a great or poor game. Or period. Or shift.

I will reserve judgement until they either win the Cup or get eliminated.

Things can change really fast in a series and hereos become villians and vice versa

 

[Mr_Fun]

"Mitch is our most reliable and consistent defensive player and he will continue to be so". Keefe

He isn't wrong either.

We need that aspect of his game probably more than the offensive part. He certainly delivered that last game. It's absolutely fair to want and expect more offensively from him, but, if we are getting offense from other sources and Mitch can help shut down the other team, then I'm good with that, too.

 

[pcruz]

Sorry for not answering earlier, I tried but I couldn't figure out how to express my thoughts with a small number of words without rambling. But see the post below, this guys an expert on the subject and he explains it perfectly. You don't need to watch the entire video, just push forward to the breakdown of that goal.

I'm assuming you're referring to the breakdown from the Marlies video coach?

That was a great watch this morning, and really helps illustrate how the average fan misses the forest for the trees.

 

[Kiwi]

In the playoffs..he is?

He's had some extremely good playoff games, including Boston a few years back

We need one of those games now

 

[A1LeafNation]

He's had some extremely good playoff games, including Boston a few years back

We need one of those games now

Sounds like he is earning that franchise paycheck from the Leafs...maybe not.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Wait, what is going on? I've been doing other stuff all day............

If anyone can link me to a reference point for this, I'd appreciate it.

I will NOT read anything from Voldemort though (aka Symonds)



How do you feel about Marner wanting $13m per after next season?

I'm not one of these dweebs that cries for years about a guy costing 1-2 million more in cap space that is ideal.

Make a trade for a guy with and have another team eat some salary. The cap goes up, it's all a wash. Only mentally weak people obsess about this stuff.

 

[DarkKnight]

We need that aspect of his game probably more than the offensive part. He certainly delivered that last game. It's absolutely fair to want and expect more offensively from him, but, if we are getting offense from other sources and Mitch can help shut down the other team, then I'm good with that, too.

Absolutey we need more offensively, but I just quoted that because everyone just tosses defence away in like it's some marginal component. It's just as important.

 

[Antropovsky]

"Mitch is our most reliable and consistent defensive player and he will continue to be so". Keefe

He isn't wrong either.

... 11 million dollar Kampf.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm assuming you're referring to the breakdown from the Marlies video coach?

That was a great watch this morning, and really helps illustrate how the average fan misses the forest for the trees.

I'm glad you agree as it sounded earlier that you were critical of Marner on the play with this comment:

Marner didn't rotate down quickly enough and Pastrnak is not some run of the mill player.

 

[Antropovsky]

This is a good Marner interview. He didn't make himself a target and he just objectively answered the tough questions and leaned on cliches and best of all no distractions and all about the team.

 

[pcruz]

I've been a Mitch loyalist for years, the contract never bothered me, like I give a **** if he makes 9.5 instead of 10.7

BUT

The emergence of Nylander is displacing Marner. Until I see regular season Marner in the playoffs, I'm getting over the need for him being a Leaf.

I'd love to be proven wrong.

Here, I'll help you out:

Nylander is not anywhere close to the same kind of player that Marner is.

Though both players can rack up the points and produce offensively, they have very few overlapping strengths and weaknesses.


Nylander has a great shot.
Nylander is one of the best in the league at entering the offensive zone with the puck on his stick and backing down the defense.
Nylander is the only player on the team who is equally a threat to shoot as he is to make a great pass in the offensive zone.
Nylander is a big boy who has the core strength and size to physically dominate along the boards.
Nylander's offensive ceiling includes scoring 50 goals and putting up 60 - 70 assists.


That's what he is.

What he's not:

Consistent
Defensively responsible
Willing to put it on the line to make the simple plays on the defensive zone or offensive zone
Careful with the puck
Positionally sound
Willing to consistently use his body to impose himself


The things that Nylander is very poor at, Marner excels - except the physical part of the game.

Marner is defensively excellent.
He is much more responsible in terms of his position in his own zone, but more importantly, with the puck in the offensive zone.
Marner may be a winger, but he was nominated as a finalist for the Selke last season for good reason - and he continues to do the small things well.

Marner's faults stem from his unwillingness to create and take advantage of shooting opportunities for himself. He is a relatively small guy and is never going to be pushing people around. In the offensive zone, he's been at his best when deferring to others - Tavares or Matthews, but he does it too much!

He is also paid like a top 10 player in the league, but he has yet to cement himself into that conversation.

I think this last point is the Leafs' fans' biggest gripe with him.

I wanna see it too. The limited time I see them playing 5v5 together they seem to have a certain chemistry that only high end skill players may have who are roughly the same size, handedness, etc.

Bertuzzi - Matthews - Domi
Knies - Nylander - Marner
Holmberg - Tavares - Jarnkrok
Dewar - Kampf - Reaves

Probably wouldn't ever happen in the regular season let alone playoffs, as Keefe is basically fighting for his job right now.

I'd also consider getting Robertson in there in place of Knies as Knies has been invisible offensively and his only impact so far is being a crash test dummy for the Bruins to trample over

This stems from Nylander's collective of faults:

He is not, and will never be a strong centre on any team with high aspirations.
The defensive game, the selflessness, the positioning, the inconsistent physical play.

Due to these, he is only really suited for a 3rd or 4th line centre role, but his skill level demands that he play in offensive-oriented lines 1 or 2.
There is a big disconnect between what he does well, and what is needed in order to succeed as a #1 or #2 centre.

I'm glad you agree as it sounded earlier that you were critical of Marner on the play with this comment:

Marner didn't rotate down quickly enough and Pastrnak is not some run of the mill player.

No, not at all.

I mean, I guess he could have stayed a bit tighter to the slot and played a more zone-coverage-like approach with less than 10 seconds left, but he certainly was not at fault for the goal.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Edmundson for Vezina.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Consistent
Defensively responsible
Willing to put it on the line to make the simple plays on the defensive zone or offensive zone
Careful with the puck
Positionally sound
Willing to consistently use his body to impose himself


The things that Nylander is very poor at, Marner excels - except the physical part of the game.

Marner is defensively excellent.
He is much more responsible in terms of his position in his own zone, but more importantly, with the puck in the offensive zone.
Marner may be a winger, but he was nominated as a finalist for the Selke last season for good reason - and he continues to do the small things well.

Marner's faults stem from his unwillingness to create and take advantage of shooting opportunities for himself. He is a relatively small guy and is never going to be pushing people around. In the offensive zone, he's been at his best when deferring to others - Tavares or Matthews, but he does it too much!

He is also paid like a top 10 player in the league, but he has yet to cement himself into that conversation.

I think this last point is the Leafs' fans'

Here, I'll help you out:

Nylander is not anywhere close to the same kind of player that Marner is.

Though both players can rack up the points and produce offensively, they have very few overlapping strengths and weaknesses.


Nylander has a great shot.
Nylander is one of the best in the league at entering the offensive zone with the puck on his stick and backing down the defense.
Nylander is the only player on the team who is equally a threat to shoot as he is to make a great pass in the offensive zone.
Nylander is a big boy who has the core strength and size to physically dominate along the boards.
Nylander's offensive ceiling includes scoring 50 goals and putting up 60 - 70 assists.


That's what he is.

What he's not:

Consistent
Defensively responsible
Willing to put it on the line to make the simple plays on the defensive zone or offensive zone
Careful with the puck
Positionally sound
Willing to consistently use his body to impose himself


The things that Nylander is very poor at, Marner excels - except the physical part of the game.

Marner is defensively excellent.
He is much more responsible in terms of his position in his own zone, but more importantly, with the puck in the offensive zone.
Marner may be a winger, but he was nominated as a finalist for the Selke last season for good reason - and he continues to do the small things well.

Marner's faults stem from his unwillingness to create and take advantage of shooting opportunities for himself. He is a relatively small guy and is never going to be pushing people around. In the offensive zone, he's been at his best when deferring to others - Tavares or Matthews, but he does it too much!

He is also paid like a top 10 player in the league, but he has yet to cement himself into that conversation.

I think this last point is the Leafs' fans' biggest gripe with him.








This stems from Nylander's collective of faults:

He is not, and will never be a strong centre on any team with high aspirations.
The defensive game, the selflessness, the positioning, the inconsistent physical play.

Due to these, he is only really suited for a 3rd or 4th line centre role, but his skill level demands that he play in offensive-oriented lines 1 or 2.
There is a big disconnect between what he does well, and what is needed in order to succeed as a #1 or #2 centre.



No, not at all.

I mean, I guess he could have stayed a bit tighter to the slot and played a more zone-coverage-like approach with less than 10 seconds left, but he certainly was not at fault for the goal.

Wow thanks for the lecture.

Spin how you want, Mitch is a useless perimeter player against Boston and Florida, any team can force the puck to the boards and Mitch is useless.

Nylander cuts straight to the net because he plays like man.

Willie is having a better first round than Mitch and he's a healthy scratch.

I don't care what Mitch does in the regular season. The Leafs are playoff team with or without him. He had one good series vs Tampa last year, that's the best that can be said about his post season career.

I'm sick of soft players that get hyped for pretty plays in January.

 

[pcruz]

Do people ever think critically about their own positions.

If you think you're 'just kinda ok' with Auston's contract do you seriously think you'll be happy with whomever the alternative is?

My issue with Mitch is that he looks like a honest defensive effort will shut him down in the playoffs.

I could care less what he's paid, nickle and dime the lesser talents and pay your stars. Toronto used to give fat contracts to middle talent like the Muskoka Five ect....

It's like what team are you trying to build in Toronto, there is no patience or forward thinking in this market, it's a fishbowl,



Wow thanks for the lecture.

Spin how you want, Mitch is a useless perimeter player against Boston and Florida, any team can force the puck to the boards and Mitch is useless.

Nylander cuts straight to the net because he plays like man.

Willie is having a better first round than Mitch and he's a healthy scratch.

I don't care what Mitch does in the regular season. The Leafs are playoff team with or without him. He had one good series vs Tampa last year, that's the best that can be said about his post season career.

I'm sick of soft players that get hyped for pretty plays in January.

Ironically, I'm sick of people who refuse to learn from actual information and stick their heads in the ground.

 

[TMLegend]

I want this guy to make me eat crow but he looks like a lost cause out there.

Actively hurting the team on most shifts.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Even at Mitchys worst he'll put up points. Whether he looks good or bad, I expect him to get some 0's off the board soon.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Ironically, I'm sick of people who refuse to learn from actual information and stick their heads in the ground.

You post a bunch for pro Mitch stuff everyone already knows like it's supposed to change anyone's mind.

I don't care if he gets a max contract, until he does something when it counts he sucks.

 

[Kiwi]

Sounds like he is earning that franchise paycheck from the Leafs...maybe not.

He needs to, he's going to earn a lot of money on his next deal and I think he wants to stay so he needs to prove he's worth his salary

 

[IPS]

Playing again like he's terrified of contact.

 

[Maple Leaf]

He assis

 

[Pavel10]

Apparently according to Simpson marner has had a high ankle sprain for 5 years, every playoffs.

 

[sunstersun]

Awful again.

 

[stickty111]

Not good enough still

 

[Aashir Mallik]

The level he needs to be at is so much higher and his abilities can't take him there

He's a regular season player through and through.

I hope treliving chooses him as the one to ship out

 

[fancy lad]

Two words.

Shrinking violet.

Obviously I want him to do well. He just doesn’t have it in these high pressure settings.