Speculation: Mitch Marner Mega Thread Part 10

[Cor]

You have 11 million dollars on ltir. Acquiring Clarkson allowed you to sign 7 guys to deals that you couldn’t have without that trade. That is cap circumventing. Regardless of that, even if you take that out, the Toronto Maple Leafs have tons of advantages and some fans still want more.

It’s ridiculous. You’d think the wildly successful last 15 years would be enough.

 

[glovesave_35]

They're all going to be living in major cities, and at the level of luxury these guys already live, the price differences wouldn't be that drastic; not nearly as much as the difference in taxes, and also much harder to calculate. No-tax states have those advantages too; they just have another massive one that creates a competitive imbalance, that could be easily remedied.

This whole tax discussion is rather stupid anyway. It's basically just an attempt by one side to justify the select few unique players that clearly took massive discounts as "comparables", and use them to try and say X Leaf player is overpaid, when in reality, they don't match up to a lot of the league.


You seem to have already hit the bottom so seems like a rather pointless question at this point.

Yeah I think we are there. Cheers.

 

[TOGuy14]

What FA's took significantly less money to play in tax free states? And by less, I mean under a reasonable range as exact value is difficult to pin down.

Now, how many of those players signed contracts with teams in poor standing in the league? In other words, how many didn't have winning or team familiarity as a significant factor?

I think you will find the list is minute and this tax haven stuff we debate every year is wildly blown out of proportion.

And yet the two teams with the most favorable tax situations (TB and NSH) seem to get players to sign some of the best value contracts around.

 

[Dache]

And yet the two teams with the most favorable tax situations (TB and NSH) seem to get players to sign some of the best value contracts around.

Not the panthers?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You might want to look up the real estate differences between places like Buffalo/Raleigh/Columbus and places like NYC/San Jose.

As I said, with their lifestyles, the difference is not nearly as much as it would be for the average person. Also, if they are buying real estate, that's an investment.

 

[Metroid]

Brilliant... ?

Thanks!

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'll be researching this next.

If you have time to do all of this so-called "research", you'd think you'd have time to respond to the countless questions and disproven claims of yours in here instead of making up sad excuses to constantly run away...

 

[Legion34]

Ok. Now let's look at what a million dollars buys you in the DFW area in terms of real estate and compare that to Toronto, NY, California, Vancouver etc. Should high cost of living cities be given higher cap ceiling? Continuing your thought out that we need a completely level playing field your answer should be yes.

How far down the rabbit hole should we go?

No? There shouldn’t be a cap on anything. There is no weather cap or real estate cap or good player cap or ticket price. cap.

That is the natural state of affairs. The NHL has chosen to ARTIFICIALLY limit a franchisees ability to spend money on personnel for their own product.

That’s the point. The point is that the league has artificially hamstrung some teams. And then the cap that they artificially brought in has allowed some a distinct advantage.

If a person is in favour of a Cap. They can’t be in favour of a cap that allows systemic advantage

 

[Legion34]

How much more of an advantage do you guys want? You are circumventing the cap right now because you are rich. You also pay out huge bonus upfront when not many other teams can. Your players make money from endorsements, you spend tons of money on hockey ops. And yet you whine about tax free states and how you are disadvantaged? Cmon man

Ummmmm every single team has the exact same ability to do this.

Every single fan and fan base has the ability to support the team to the exact same level.

They Choose not to.

 

[Red Piller]

It’s ridiculous. You’d think the wildly successful last 15 years would be enough.

What does success have to do with it? Is what I said incorrect? If so which part

 

[Red Piller]

It is only circumventing the cap if Toronto does it. Clarkson was on LTIR when Vegas aquired him. Arizona and other teams have used LTIR players. It sounds like people's hopes of Toronto being in cap hell and having to break apart their core didn't materialize, and now they are finding something else to piss and moan about.

You mean like state taxes? Nobody is pissing and moaning I was just saying it is strange that you believe you don’t have advantages when in fact you have a ton of them

 

[TheNumber4]

Ummmmm every single team has the exact same ability to do this.

Every single fan and fan base has the ability to support the team to the exact same level.

They Choose not to.

Yeh sure every team has the ability to pump loads of money into their team giving them an advantage on the competition...... if they want to lose money and bankrupt the entire operation. Lol. What a dumb argument.

 

[Red Piller]

That's not even close to circumventing the cap. In fact, those contracts are a detriment to the Leafs.

How?

 

[Mickey Marner]

How?

They will inhibit the Leafs from accruing daily cap space over the course of the season.

 

[andora]

They will inhibit the Leafs from accruing daily cap space over the course of the season.

the LTIR overage does that - these contracts are flexibility for the 4th line / call up options and defence rotation and call up options. these contracts will do no harm regarding cap, as only two of them will be on the roster come opening

 

[Leaf Fans]

You mean like state taxes? Nobody is pissing and moaning I was just saying it is strange that you believe you don’t have advantages when in fact you have a ton of them

If you want to moan about state taxes, go ahead. Your claim was cap circumvention by the Leafs by having contracts on LTIR. The use by teams of LTIR is not new. It seems that because the Leafs are using it, it is now a circumvention according to you. I believe I know why. I also believe I have advantages. I have never claimed that I didn't.

 

[Red Piller]

They will inhibit the Leafs from accruing daily cap space over the course of the season.

How much would they accrue? You are still spending 11 million over the cap. You were able to ship out bad money for both of those guys and all you had to do was put them on ltir. That is circumventing the cap. I don’t care what you guys do. More power to you for sure. But for some fans to sit there and say other teams have advantages that you don’t is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Drew311]

Do teams with lower federal tax rates get significant discounts?

View attachment 248969



I'll be researching this next.

Lol. Dude, go outside, enjoy the summer. Give up on the endless pissing match that is this a thread.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yeh sure every team has the ability to pump loads of money into their team giving them an advantage on the competition...... if they want to lose money and bankrupt the entire operation. Lol. What a dumb argument.

Different teams and place and individuals have different advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Red Piller]

If you want to moan about state taxes, go ahead. Your claim was cap circumvention by the Leafs by having contracts on LTIR. The use by teams of LTIR is not new. It seems that because the Leafs are using it, it is now a circumvention according to you. I believe I know why. I also believe I have advantages. I have never claimed that I didn't.

Do you honestly not understand the point I was making? Apparently not.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Do you honestly not understand the point I was making? Apparently not.

Yes, your point was that the Leafs are guilty of cap circumvention. "You are circumventing the cap right now because you are rich"If there were any other points being made, clearly, you haven't expressed them well.

 

[Red Piller]

Yes, your point was that the Leafs are guilty of cap circumvention. "You are circumventing the cap right now because you are rich"If there were any other points being made, clearly, you haven't expressed them well.

Not at all. I was using that as an example of advantages you have compared to other teams. How can fans say that other teams have an unfair advantage with taxes, when you also have a ton of advantages compared to the rest of the league? It is interesting to me also that you picked one of those things I said and ignored the rest. I think you are being dishonest on purpose and trying to make it out to be an “everyone hates us! See?” When that is not what I was implying at all.

I also believe that the amount of money you have is both an advantage and disadvantage, when it comes to signings.

 

[Legion34]

Yeh sure every team has the ability to pump loads of money into their team giving them an advantage on the competition...... if they want to lose money and bankrupt the entire operation. Lol. What a dumb argument.

Except that’s how the entire western world works?

Your argument is “well no one is as good as Tampa. So let’s make them play 4 on 5”. To even it up so that Ottawa has a chance to beat them.

Every team has the same rules in terms of front offices. Front loading etc.

Every market has been vetted and ownership approved. If they can’t spend the same to a competitive equal level then they need to change business practices.

 

[Legion34]

How much would they accrue? You are still spending 11 million over the cap. You were able to ship out bad money for both of those guys and all you had to do was put them on ltir. That is circumventing the cap. I don’t care what you guys do. More power to you for sure. But for some fans to sit there and say other teams have advantages that you don’t is kind of ridiculous.

Every team is allowed to do this. Heck this was encouraged so Toronto fans could pay the contract to help keep the lights on in columbus

Toronto is not allowed to offer tax free contracts.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not at all. I was using that as an example of advantages you have compared to other teams. How can fans say that other teams have an unfair advantage with taxes, when you also have a ton of advantages compared to the rest of the league? It is interesting to me also that you picked one of those things I said and ignored the rest. I think you are being dishonest on purpose and trying to make it out to be an “everyone hates us! See?” When that is not what I was implying at all.

I also believe that the amount of money you have is both an advantage and disadvantage, when it comes to signings.

Nah, I took exception to your claim of the Leafs circumventing the cap. As for any talk of advantages I have stated "different teams, places, and individuals have their own advantages and did advantages" though admittedly not directly to you but with in the context of the tangent we are on now. There is no "everyone hates us! See?” position among leaf fans on this board. It has been made up as a thought terminating cliche on this board.