Speculation: Mitch Marner Mega Thread Part 10

[Sidney the Kidney]

Gross over payment for 8 years. 6 years? I would be trading his ass long before that.

Might be over-payment for the first couple of years, but by Year 3 that will probably be the going rate (if not more) for elite playmaking wingers.

 

[glovesave_35]

Contracts create the market, and we use league comparables to evaluate.

What FA's took significantly less money to play in tax free states? And by less, I mean under a reasonable range as exact value is difficult to pin down.

Now, how many of those players signed contracts with teams in poor standing in the league? In other words, how many didn't have winning or team familiarity as a significant factor?

I think you will find the list is minute and this tax haven stuff we debate every year is wildly blown out of proportion.

 

[smitty10]

Matthews is a 70 point center that is injury prone and he bent Dubas over the table and got a contract he did not deserve. If Dubas was able to get a 8 year term then it would be an OK contract but at 5 years it is just terrible.

He's a 70 point center? He's 21 and just had 73 points in only 68 games (88 point pace). Year before he had 63 points in 62 games (83 point pace).

You're right though. He must be topped out at this point. Too bad he had 2 shoulder injuries. Injury prone. Kid is a bum.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Now, how many of those players signed contracts with teams in poor standing in the league? In other words, how many didn't have winning or team familiarity as a significant factor?

When winning/being competitive can drive down cap hits for some teams and not for others due to taxes, it's still a problem.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

(1) Meh. 18 or 19.......does it matter?

And 5 years is what his agent negotiated. Who cares? He's locked up for the next 5 years, isn't he? (2) You you be a happier person if it was for 6 or 7 or 8 years?

(1) Only if you care about the truth.

(2) I would be if I was a Leafs fan.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

1.5M x 8 years. 28-team no trade clause.

At the team discretion, obviously...

 

[glovesave_35]

When winning/being competitive can drive down cap hits for some teams and not for others due to taxes, it's still a problem.

Ok. Now let's look at what a million dollars buys you in the DFW area in terms of real estate and compare that to Toronto, NY, California, Vancouver etc. Should high cost of living cities be given higher cap ceiling? Continuing your thought out that we need a completely level playing field your answer should be yes.

How far down the rabbit hole should we go?

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Ok. Now let's look at what a million dollars buys you in the DFW area in terms of real estate and compare that to Toronto, NY, California, Vancouver etc. Should high cost of living cities be given higher cap ceiling? Continuing your thought out that we need a completely level playing field your answer should be yes.

How far down the rabbit hole should we go?

Good post.

 

[Arhidia]

Good post.

Ppl in here act like they Know how
NHL teams do business.
It gotta be much simpler than whats being
Posted here

 

[glovesave_35]

Ppl in here act like they Know how
NHL teams do business.
It gotta be much simpler than whats being
Posted here

What do you mean?

 

[Mr Tadakichi]

Ppl in here act like they Know how
NHL teams do business.
It gotta be much simpler than whats being
Posted here

Is this poetry?

 

[Arhidia]

Is this poetry?

POETRY is the art of writing thoughts ... ...ideas... ...and dreams... ...verse... ...pause... ...meter ... ...repetition... ...into imaginative language

 

[Red Piller]

A systemic advantage in a system. Not personal choice

Labanc signed for a million. Fine. Players take less to go home. Fine. A player likes it in Tampa and signs there long term. Fine.

Teams who get a repeated systemic advantage. Not fine

How much more of an advantage do you guys want? You are circumventing the cap right now because you are rich. You also pay out huge bonus upfront when not many other teams can. Your players make money from endorsements, you spend tons of money on hockey ops. And yet you whine about tax free states and how you are disadvantaged? Cmon man

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Do teams with lower federal tax rates get significant discounts?

How much more of an advantage do you guys want? You are circumventing the cap right now because you are rich. You also pay out huge bonus upfront when not many other teams can. Your players make money from endorsements, you spend tons of money on hockey ops. And yet you whine about tax free states and how you are disadvantaged? Cmon man

I'll be researching this next.

 

[Leaf Fans]

How much more of an advantage do you guys want? You are circumventing the cap right now because you are rich. You also pay out huge bonus upfront when not many other teams can. Your players make money from endorsements, you spend tons of money on hockey ops. And yet you whine about tax free states and how you are disadvantaged? Cmon man

We are not circumventing the cap. In what way?

 

[Mr Tadakichi]

POETRY is the art of writing thoughts ... ...ideas... ...and dreams... ...verse... ...pause... ...meter ... ...repetition... ...into imaginative language

 

[crowi]

Yeah, but we need a new thread for non- Leafs players that you are suggesting.

I was suggesting something? News to me.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I was suggesting something? News to me.

Yes, you were talking about overpaid RFAs and since there are none on the Leafs you were suggesting players on other teams.

 

[crowi]

Yes, you were talking about overpaid RFAs and since there are none on the Leafs you were suggesting players on other teams.

Haha, sure man.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ok. Now let's look at what a million dollars buys you in the DFW area in terms of real estate and compare that to Toronto, NY, California, Vancouver etc. Should high cost of living cities be given higher cap ceiling? Continuing your thought out that we need a completely level playing field your answer should be yes.

They're all going to be living in major cities, and at the level of luxury these guys already live, the price differences wouldn't be that drastic; not nearly as much as the difference in taxes, and also much harder to calculate. No-tax states have those advantages too; they just have another massive one that creates a competitive imbalance, that could be easily remedied.

This whole tax discussion is rather stupid anyway. It's basically just an attempt by one side to justify the select few unique players that clearly took massive discounts as "comparables", and use them to try and say X Leaf player is overpaid, when in reality, they don't match up to a lot of the league.

How far down the rabbit hole should we go?

You seem to have already hit the bottom so seems like a rather pointless question at this point.

 

[Red Piller]

We are not circumventing the cap. In what way?

You have 11 million dollars on ltir. Acquiring Clarkson allowed you to sign 7 guys to deals that you couldn’t have without that trade. That is cap circumventing. Regardless of that, even if you take that out, the Toronto Maple Leafs have tons of advantages and some fans still want more.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

They're all going to be living in major cities, and at the level of luxury these guys already live, the price differences wouldn't be that drastic; not nearly as much as the difference in taxes, and also much harder to calculate. No-tax states have those advantages too; they just have another massive one that creates a competitive imbalance, that could be easily remedied.

This whole tax discussion is rather stupid anyway. It's basically just an attempt by one side to justify the select few unique players that clearly took massive discounts as "comparables", and use them to try and say X Leaf player is overpaid, when in reality, they don't match up to a lot of the league.


You seem to have already hit the bottom so seems like a rather pointless question at this point.

nonsense. cost of living is calculated easily and is used by companies with multiple locations all the time in compensation adjustments. its a bigger factor than state tax burdens

 

[eanyills]

They're all going to be living in major cities, and at the level of luxury these guys already live, the price differences wouldn't be that drastic

You might want to look up the real estate differences between places like Buffalo/Raleigh/Columbus and places like NYC/San Jose.

There’s a significant difference.

 

[Leaf Fans]

You have 11 million dollars on ltir. Acquiring Clarkson allowed you to sign 7 guys to deals that you couldn’t have without that trade. That is cap circumventing. Regardless of that, even if you take that out, the Toronto Maple Leafs have tons of advantages and some fans still want more.

It is only circumventing the cap if Toronto does it. Clarkson was on LTIR when Vegas aquired him. Arizona and other teams have used LTIR players. It sounds like people's hopes of Toronto being in cap hell and having to break apart their core didn't materialize, and now they are finding something else to piss and moan about.

 

[Mickey Marner]

You have 11 million dollars on ltir. Acquiring Clarkson allowed you to sign 7 guys to deals that you couldn’t have without that trade. That is cap circumventing. Regardless of that, even if you take that out, the Toronto Maple Leafs have tons of advantages and some fans still want more.

That's not even close to circumventing the cap. In fact, those contracts are a detriment to the Leafs.