Confirmed with Link: Mitch Marner Discussion Thread II - First Team All-Star

[Lightsol]

I just looked up the trading history post 93, not really seeing this myself. I mean there was one really awful trade the made them older and worse probably (the trade to bring back Clark) but most of the moves they made in the next couple of years were minor ones. They had a team with a bunch of veteran players that weren't getting any younger, they peaked when they peaked and that was that.

Well, there's the Dallas trade for Dave Gagner (they're lucky Hogue never hit his full potential or this would be worse), dealing for an over-the-hill Kirk Muller, and of course, reaquiring Clark and getting a disgruntled Schneider for Kenny Johnsson and their 1st that year (Roberto Luongo). Ironically, their terrible drafting prevented this from being even worse, as most of their players busted; if they hadn't...

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well, there's the Dallas trade for Dave Gagner (they're lucky Hogue never hit his full potential or this would be worse), dealing for an over-the-hill Kirk Muller, and of course, reaquiring Clark and getting a disgruntled Schneider for Kenny Johnsson and their 1st that year (Roberto Luongo). Ironically, their terrible drafting prevented this from being even worse, as most of their players busted; if they hadn't...

Yeah the Clark trade was dumb (and does fit your narrative) but all this together is more than counterbalanced by trading Clark for Sundin in the 1st place.

Gilmour had a couple of superstar level years here and carried the team. When he started to decline and was no longer able to carry the team the way he did, that was the end of it. It was a veteran team that was bound to regress no matter what, that's the way I remember it anyway.

Agree there were some bad trades and of course bad drafting, something I think a lot of people don't understand who think Dubas is the worst GM in the league. Say what you want about him and he's f***ed up a time or two but he may well be the best GM we've had in the last 50+ years.

Anyhow, on the subject of Marner, someone mentioned that he's luckily lived up to his contract. I don't know if I agree with that but this year he did for sure and hopefully it's a sign of things to come. It was still an overpayment at the time and I really hope he understands that, puts his ego aside for the next negotiations and give us a break. I really hope Matthews does the same, sure they're great players but would do wonders for their legacy if they gave us even a little bit of a discount.

 

[Busher]

Anyhow, on the subject of Marner, someone mentioned that he's luckily lived up to his contract. I don't know if I agree with that but this year he did for sure and hopefully it's a sign of things to come. It was still an overpayment at the time and I really hope he understands that, puts his ego aside for the next negotiations and give us a break. I really hope Matthews does the same, sure they're great players but would do wonders for their legacy if they gave us even a little bit of a discount.

That was me. And yes I agree it was still an overpayment at the time, which means he should have signed for less at the time, but the way I see it, at least he’s performed to what would have been expected of his salary. I’ll take that over an alternative world where he’s run out of town because he didn’t live up to his salary. And that could have been a realistic scenario. Same for Matthews. Credit where due, they didn’t let that happen.

Like you, I would like to think they will appreciate that the team was generous last time around, and that both Marner and Matthews might be more fair in negotiations the next time.

 

[Trapper]

I forsee an art ross next season for Marner or Matthews. Marner going to have a fire in his belly next season.

He doesn’t have it now?
Save it for the playoffs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Calling Marner a "100 point Winger" is also stupid, when the guy has never hit 100 points.

He's actually a 110 point winger, and even that is undervaluing his offensive impact due to his low PP time, and not even mentioning his defensive and PK impact.

 

[Racer88]

He's actually a 110 point winger, and even that is undervaluing his offensive impact due to his low PP time, and not even mentioning his defensive and PK impact.

I must have missed that 110 point season

 

[ACC1224]

I must have missed that 110 point season

Most points hes ever scored in the NHL is 97.
I think 110 is the 'expected' number which is what matters.

 

[al secord]

Most points hes ever scored in the NHL is 97.
I think 110 is the 'expected' number which is what matters.

Once our actual game catches up with our expected game, we'll be unstoppable.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I must have missed that 110 point season

He scored at a 110 point pace this most recent season.

 

[hamzarocks]

Calling Marner a "100 point Winger" is also stupid, when the guy has never hit 100 points. Marner is a TOP Winger in the NHL. No need to go all silly-buggers and make shit up. Calm down.

97 in 71 is 100 point winger

He's in the range of wingers who can put a 100 pts in a year

Panarin, Pasta, Kaprizov, Huberdeau, Gaudreau, Kuch, Kane, rantanen, Marchand are the others who I expect to be capable of getting 100 pts if they're healthy in a year

 

[mclaren55]

So wait, you guys are telling me it doesn’t matter if you actually score 100 points, it just matters if you pace for it? Ok cool, let’s get Ryan Ellis then, he is a 100 point Dman.

 

[notbias]

I must have missed that 110 point season

Fun fact, in McDavid's first season he was considered at best a 48pt player because that is all he scored, anyone who called him a 50pt player or better was ridiculed for such a crazy take. Anyone who said McDavid was good was laughed at cause he only put up 48pts that season.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So wait, you guys are telling me it doesn’t matter if you actually score 100 points, it just matters if you pace for it? Ok cool, let’s get Ryan Ellis then, he is a 100 point Dman.

Unsustainably scoring at a pace through 4 games =/= sustainably scoring at a pace through 72 games, with multiple connecting seasons of relatively similar production.

 

[mclaren55]

Unsustainably scoring at a pace through 4 games =/= sustainably scoring at a pace through 72 games, with multiple connecting seasons of relatively similar production.

My point being someone can’t be considered something prior to accomplishing it. Maybe this sense of entitlement that runs through some of our fans runs through our team? Is this some generational difference? Just because you complete almost all your college courses, doesn’t mean you are a college graduate, even if you had a 4.0 gpa.

 

[ACC1224]

I have no doubt that Marner, if playing a full season, will score 120 plus.

 

[mclaren55]

I have no doubt that Marner, if playing a full season, will score 120 plus.

I’m sure most fans believe he is capable of it (myself Included), he just hasn’t accomplished it (or 110/100) yet.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I'm pretty sure we were on pace to win our series against Montreal and Tampa at some point in time. Point being you haven't accomplished something until you actually do it.

No doubt Marner is capable of hitting 100 points. Calling him a 110 point winger when he hasn't even hit 100 though is a bit much.

 

[Dekes For Days]

My point being someone can’t be considered something prior to accomplishing it.

You can't be considered "somebody who has scored X points in one season", but you can be considered an "X point player", which is generally considered to be the amount of points one can reasonably be expected to put up in an 82 game season. Was McDavid a 48 point player in his rookie season?

Just because you complete almost all your college courses, doesn’t mean you are a college graduate, even if you had a 4.0 gpa.

The better analogy would be calling a 4.0 student a 2.0 student just because they were only half done their degree so far. It's not an accurate representation of their ability.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Happy for Marner guy has been taking flack for years and all he does is produce. He's not perfect but he didn't deserve the hate he received on these boards.

 

[ULF_55]

His value will never be higher.

 

[Dekes For Days]

His value will never be higher.

His value to the Leafs will likely be even higher over the next 3 years.

 

[ACC1224]

I’m sure most fans believe he is capable of it (myself Included), he just hasn’t accomplished it (or 110/100) yet.

Agreed. We have a small portion of our fanbase that is dishonest about many things for some odd reason. Everything is expected and projected instead of just dealing in reality.

 

[therealkoho]

Maybe your right and Bob McKenzie and those other media members are lying about their inside information. Maybe Robertson will be the first guy to finally get that Mitch Marner money that has eluded all the other superstars in the league.

Who said anything about lying?

Being wrong about stuff isn't necessarily lying, but know this, they're no different than us, they just hang in a different circle. Being like us they're prone to supposition and some of them even aggrandizement on occasion.

 

[therealkoho]

Agreed. We have a small portion of our fanbase that is dishonest about many things for some odd reason. Everything is expected and projected instead of just dealing in reality.

It goes without saying that we also have a large faction of folks who live solely in the past. Witness talk about a Dave Gagner trade at a time when the league still used wooden sticks and some players played without helmets, in a thread that is supposed to be celebrating the accomplishments of our 1st team all-star winger, who probably wasn't even born when that trade was completed.

Sheesh

 

[mclaren55]

You can't be considered "somebody who has scored X points in one season", but you can be considered an "X point player", which is generally considered to be the amount of points one can reasonably be expected to put up in an 82 game season. Was McDavid a 48 point player in his rookie season?

The better analogy would be calling a 4.0 student a 2.0 student just because they were only half done their degree so far. It's not an accurate representation of their ability.

I’m just going to have to agree to disagree, and your analogy is erroneous for reasons that need not be stated, you seem intelligent.