Mississauga Steelheads to relocate to Brampton

[DWI Dale]

I've always thought this could work. Fly teams in and have them play 3 games in 4 nights. Division teams and a rotation of other east teams . TB would fly south and do a 2 week road trip. flying in and out would not cost as much as the actual hotels and food but why not try?

i suppose the WHL travels huge distances to play but the OHL seems content trying to cram as many teams into a small geographic area without much concern for fan support.

one things for sure, a thunder bay team would have great fan support.

 

[Bjorn Le]

The tricky part of a good market for an OHL club is both a loyal market that’ll get behind a team and a good enough arena to make sure you don’t lose money/can actually attract talent. There are a few smaller cities that if they had updated rinks with boxes, they could be as successful as Owen Sound. Brantford is a great example…they’d have a permanent team for sure if they had an arena with boxes, proper facilities, and 3500-4500 seats. A place like Stratford or Cornwall probably would too.

But there’s no appetite to do that. Brantford has clearly shown there is appetite for those kinds of efforts and it’s not a given they’ll be able to make that investment anyways. No real NHL prospect is going to play in an arena with Junior B/C quality amenities except in the short term. So places like Missy and Brampton will continue to get teams because they’ve got great arenas and OHL teams can survive on 1,500 people plus sponsorship, media contract and development fees.

 

[Otto]

i suppose the WHL travels huge distances to play but the OHL seems content trying to cram as many teams into a small geographic area without much concern for fan support.

one things for sure, a thunder bay team would have great fan support.

The WHL does it because they have to. The OHL doesn't have to. Thunder Bay is never going to happen, the Board of Governors would never approve it.

 

[DWI Dale]

The WHL does it because they have to. The OHL doesn't have to. Thunder Bay is never going to happen, the Board of Governors would never approve it.

yes i realize this. teams in places like brampton remind me of the NHL/Bettman insisting on a team in arizona... it's never going to work but they've invested so much time and money into trying to fit a square peg into a round hole that they'll never acknowledge it.

 

[OHLTG]

Thunder Bay is in a tough spot because they're large enough to be able to try an OHL team but their closest competitor, the Soo, is 699km away. Windsor to North Bay is closer (by 20ish KM). Even if you tried the WHL, they're still 700km from Winnipeg. There's no real winning solution.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

Taking bets on how long it takes for Brampton to kill another OHL team

 

[Kingpin794]

Taking bets on how long it takes for Brampton to kill another OHL team

5 years. Then we try Mississauga again.

 

[DWI Dale]

does etobicoke or scarborough have a rink? lol

 

[HockeyPops]

This is a pretty good interactive list of arenas

Full dataset view - Canada - Sports Stadiums & Arenas

This dataset contains 246 items. You can interact with this dataset by changing ranking metrics, selecting filters and searching for keywords...

rlist.io

 

[EvenSteven]

Thunder Bay is in a tough spot because they're large enough to be able to try an OHL team but their closest competitor, the Soo, is 699km away. Windsor to North Bay is closer (by 20ish KM). Even if you tried the WHL, they're still 700km from Winnipeg. There's no real winning solution.

Geography screws Thunder Bay. Unfortunate but it is what it is.

The best comparison would be the ECHL’s Newfoundland Growlers. Visiting teams are flown in and they play three game sets in three or four nights. I think the Growlers have to subsidize some of the visiting teams’ travel costs.

You can get away with that in a pro league of adults but in a league where most if not all the players are student athletes, it would be a tough haul. St.John’s found that out with their short lived QMJHL team and Thunder Bay would as well.

Talk about your “have not” team where you’d have a ton of trouble getting players to report to. Every player with leverage would have them on top of their list of teams they wouldn’t report to.

 

[bobber]

Buying a franchise is a huge investment these says. The franchise owners want to see a return to profit sooner than later. If fans in the area won't support a team on a regular basis we have all seen teams pack up and leave. The facility especially in bigger cities has to be able to support as an example basket ball teams plus concerts other attractions also like Home Shows etc. I think most are owned by communities but not sure.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

Buying a franchise is a huge investment these says. The franchise owners want to see a return to profit sooner than later. If fans in the area won't support a team on a regular basis we have all seen teams pack up and leave. The facility especially in bigger cities has to be able to support as an example basket ball teams plus concerts other attractions also like Home Shows etc. I think most are owned by communities but not sure.

Kudos to the Steelheads owners who love losing money every year, just not losing as much with the move to Brampton...wish I had that kind of cash flow to just burn some every day

I'm sure the players love playing before a crowd that's even smaller than the crowds that come out to watch the worst teams in the league this season too

 

[dirty12]

Taking bets on how long it takes for Brampton to kill another OHL team

A renovated arena for the Hamilton Steelheads is probably what kills another OHL team in Brampton.

 

[Kingpin794]

Buying a franchise is a huge investment these says. The franchise owners want to see a return to profit sooner than later. If fans in the area won't support a team on a regular basis we have all seen teams pack up and leave. The facility especially in bigger cities has to be able to support as an example basket ball teams plus concerts other attractions also like Home Shows etc. I think most are owned by communities but not sure.

Wasn't there a document that came out a few years ago that basically showed that only 3 or 4 teams operate in the positive? Most teams lose money. It's more a status symbol for rich owners that it is a business venture.

Edit: 9 of them did as of 2016. And some of those are barely positive. Lawyers follow the money as court releases CHL team financials - TSN.ca

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

A renovated arena for the Hamilton Steelheads is probably what kills another OHL team in Brampton.

Is it basically confirmed that the Brantford team wouldn't move back to Hamilton at this point?

Wasn't there a document that came out a few years ago that basically showed that only 3 or 4 teams operate in the positive? Most teams lose money. It's more a status symbol for rich owners that it is a business venture.

I don't think anything was every officially released, was more speculation and it stemmed from that minimum wage lawsuit. Correct me if I am wrong, would love to review some financials otherwise

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Wasn't there a document that came out a few years ago that basically showed that only 3 or 4 teams operate in the positive? Most teams lose money. It's more a status symbol for rich owners that it is a business venture.

Edit: 9 of them did as of 2016. And some of those are barely positive. Lawyers follow the money as court releases CHL team financials - TSN.ca

It's 100% a business venture for wealthy business owners. They can use the loses incurred from the OHL club to offset profits/gains earned on their other businesses. It's how the rich get richer.

 

[dirty12]

Is it basically confirmed that the Brantford team wouldn't move back to Hamilton at this point?


I don't think anything was every officially released, was more speculation and it stemmed from that minimum wage lawsuit. Correct me if I am wrong, would love to review some financials otherwise

The last discussion on that topic that I can recall was Andlauer willing to use his own $ for part of an arena built in Brantford.

 

[Kingpin794]

It's 100% a business venture for wealthy business owners. They can use the loses incurred from the OHL club to offset profits/gains earned on their other businesses. It's how the rich get richer.

I'm definitely not in a high enough tax bracket to think of that strategy.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

It's 100% a business venture for wealthy business owners. They can use the loses incurred from the OHL club to offset profits/gains earned on their other businesses. It's how the rich get richer.

Personally I use any business losses from my own businesses to offset my personal income tax so i get where they're coming from

The last discussion on that topic that I can recall was Andlauer willing to use his own $ for part of an arena built in Brantford.

So Brantford is here to stay then...good for the city...

Wonder if Belleville will ever get their team back...

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I am quite impressed through all this people still believe you can go home again.

It's 100% a business venture for wealthy business owners. They can use the loses incurred from the OHL club to offset profits/gains earned on their other businesses. It's how the rich get richer.

Or to launder money.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Personally I use any business losses from my own businesses to offset my personal income tax so i get where they're coming from


So Brantford is here to stay then...good for the city...

Wonder if Belleville will ever get their team back...

I know Kingston, Peterborough and Oshawa (and Ottawa to some degree) would all be on board

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

I know Kingston, Peterborough and Oshawa (and Ottawa to some degree) would all be on board

I wonder if Belleville or Cornwall would be in the running first for a franchise if one were to become available or some sort of league expansion happened....

 

[bobber]

Wasn't there a document that came out a few years ago that basically showed that only 3 or 4 teams operate in the positive? Most teams lose money. It's more a status symbol for rich owners that it is a business venture.

Edit: 9 of them did as of 2016. And some of those are barely positive. Lawyers follow the money as court releases CHL team financials - TSN.ca

When you look at the empty seats in a lot of buildings during games one wonders how they pay the freight. I think the owner of the Brampton Battalion was the inventor of the game Trivial Pursuit. I have said we were at a game there once and his mother was the only person visible in a sky box looking down at the little people below. Lonely at the top.

I wonder if Belleville or Cornwall would be in the running first for a franchise if one were to become available or some sort of league expansion happened....

Both had teams before. Belleville seemed like a decent crowd when we visited that rink on a couple of occasions. Forget the reason they left. I think the owner wanted a new facility or some such reason.

 

[bobber]

Kudos to the Steelheads owners who love losing money every year, just not losing as much with the move to Brampton...wish I had that kind of cash flow to just burn some every day

I'm sure the players love playing before a crowd that's even smaller than the crowds that come out to watch the worst teams in the league this season too

The demographics aren't there. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink it. Hopefully they can muster enough fans between both areas to support the team.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

Both had teams before. Belleville seemed like a decent crowd when we visited that rink on a couple of occasions. Forget the reason they left. I think the owner wanted a new facility or some such reason.

The demographics aren't there. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink it. Hopefully they can muster enough fans between both areas to support the team.

If I am not mistaken the arena was the concern in Belleville's departure. Pretty sure if either Belleville or Cornwall got their arena's up to snuff (or another city), they could pry the team away from Brampton in a heartbeat