Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIX

[Joseph Nathan]

Greenway(4th full year in league) is tied with Duhaime, a rookie 4th liner in points. He is being outscored by Merrill and Kulikov, two 3rd pairing Dmen, and Sturm, a 4th liner. I am all for strong defensive play, but Greenway mails it in far too often(biggest coaster on the team, IMO), is slow, has mediocre puck skills, doesn't shoot, and doesn't fight. What exactly does he do well on a consistent basis?

I mean sincerely with respect, foligno, ek and greenway do better together than Ek, and foligno with duhaime. Clearly, foligno and ek have struggled without greenway.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

If I were Guerin, I would move on from Greenway, Talbot, and Goigoski this off-season. Fiala would be pretty low on my list of players I’m willing to trade. Would move Zucc first, just hope it wouldn’t come to that.

 

[AKL]

Guys Guerin has brought in:
Gaudreau
Bjugstad
Goligoski
Kulikov
Benn
Merrill
Talbot


Guys most of us would want to get rid of:
Goligoski
Benn
Greenway
Talbot

Guys most of us wouldn't care if they left or not:
Gaudreau
Bjugstad
Merrill

At least Kulikov was a good pickup by Guerin?

 

[GuerinUp]

Guys Guerin has brought in:
Gaudreau
Bjugstad
Goligoski
Kulikov
Benn
Merrill
Talbot

Guys most of us would want to get rid of:
Goligoski
Benn
Greenway
Talbot

Guys most of us wouldn't care if they left or not:
Gaudreau
Bjugstad
Merrill

At least Kulikov was a good pickup by Guerin?

guys id like to be able to get rid of even though we cant:
spurgeon

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I will be interested to see if the team starts winning as soon as Dumba comes back - let's give him a couple of games to get acclimated.

Fiala is looking great. As much as I want a strong D, losing him in order to keep Dumba or Zuccarello(even though he has been fantastic this year) makes my head want to explode.

If we can keep all three by simply moving Greenway and Talbot then how can you not?

We probably can, but it's only a 1 year solution, then we'd have the same decision to make, but maybe that's an easier decision when Zuccarello only has 1 year left vs. 2.

 

[AKL]

Guys Guerin gave contract extensions to:
Kaprizov
Spurgeon
Foligno
Greenway
Eriksson Ek
Hartman
Brodin
Merrill


Guys with good contracts:
Kaprizov
Brodin
Hartman

Guys with okay contracts:
Foligno
Eriksson Ek

Guys with "why did you give him that contract" contracts:
Spurgeon
Greenway
Merrill

 

[AKL]

Trades Guerin has made:
Menell for a 7th
Kunin and a 3rd for Bonino, 2nd, 4th
Dubnyk and a 7th for a 5th
Staal for Johansson
Bjugstad for a 7th
Zucker for a 1st, Addison, Galchenyuk


Good trades:
Zucker for a 1st, Addison, Galchenyuk

Meh trades:
Kunin and a 3rd for Bonino, 2nd, 4th
Bjugstad for a 7th
Dubnyk and a 7th for a 5th

"Why did you make that trade" trades:
Menell for a 7th
Staal for Johansson

 

[AKL]

It feels like at every aspect of roster management, Guerin has done at least as much bad as good, and a whole lot of meh. I think the one area you look at as having done more good than bad is hiring Brackett and letting him run the draft. And even then, it's too early to tell for, well, all of them. Not a single Brackett pick has made the NHL yet, so it's too early to tell if he's actually been good or not.

IF Brackett is the real deal and his picks turn out good for us, that may make Guerin look a lot better than he's been based on signings, contracts and trades. Because to me it seems like 25% of his moves have been good, 30% have been bad, and 45% have been meh.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

It feels like at every aspect of roster management, Guerin has done at least as much bad as good, and a whole lot of meh. I think the one area you look at as having done more good than bad is hiring Brackett and letting him run the draft. And even then, it's too early to tell for, well, all of them. Not a single Brackett pick has made the NHL yet, so it's too early to tell if he's actually been good or not.

IF Brackett is the real deal and his picks turn out good for us, that may make Guerin look a lot better than he's been based on signings, contracts and trades. Because to me it seems like 25% of his moves have been good, 30% have been bad, and 45% have been meh.

Yeah I think this assessment is a little harsh. I support the logic of almost everything Guerin's done. Where he goes wrong is when he gets a bit too emotional, as seems to be the case with the Menell and Staal (and Boudreau) situations.

Even a little deal like getting Bjugstad.. he's not a world-beater but a solid NHLer for a 7th round pick is meh+ work, at least.

I know Greenway has disappointed this season to some extent, but I think he has a fair market contract that many teams would probably willingly bet on.

 

[Sota Popinski]

I've never hidden my love of having Dumba on this team either.

Yes, Wild fans have generally underestimated what he brings to the squad though overall.

He hasn't exactly jumped off the screen since his shoulder injury

Trades Guerin has made:
Menell for a 7th
Kunin and a 3rd for Bonino, 2nd, 4th
Dubnyk and a 7th for a 5th
Staal for Johansson
Bjugstad for a 7th
Zucker for a 1st, Addison, Galchenyuk


Good trades:
Zucker for a 1st, Addison, Galchenyuk

Meh trades:
Kunin and a 3rd for Bonino, 2nd, 4th
Bjugstad for a 7th
Dubnyk and a 7th for a 5th

"Why did you make that trade" trades:
Menell for a 7th
Staal for Johansson

Your "why did you make that trade" trades have had zero impact on the team. Mennell and Staal proved to be pretty much worthless on their new teams

 

[Minnewildsota]

Your "why did you make that trade" trades have had zero impact on the team. Mennell and Staal proved to be pretty much worthless on their new teams

But that doesn't fit the narrative

 

[District 5]

But that doesn't fit the narrative

Ding Ding Ding!

 

[Mickey the mouse]

Trades Guerin has made:
Menell for a 7th
Kunin and a 3rd for Bonino, 2nd, 4th
Dubnyk and a 7th for a 5th
Staal for Johansson
Bjugstad for a 7th
Zucker for a 1st, Addison, Galchenyuk


Good trades:
Zucker for a 1st, Addison, Galchenyuk

Meh trades:
Kunin and a 3rd for Bonino, 2nd, 4th
Bjugstad for a 7th
Dubnyk and a 7th for a 5th

"Why did you make that trade" trades:
Menell for a 7th
Staal for Johansson

Mennel has been a healthy scratch for the AHL Toronto Marlies

 

[Joseph Nathan]

Ding Ding Ding!

Plus the people criticizing greenway signing: foligno and Ek for whatever reason have sucked without each other, or without greenway on that line

Fiala not being offered deal yet , or no reports that he has made me think whether, or not he continues to ask for kaprizov's money.

One last thing, why do people want to rid of kaprizov's safety net in Zuccarello? Not talking about you, but others

 

[AKL]

Your "why did you make that trade" trades have had zero impact on the team. Mennell and Staal proved to be pretty much worthless on their new teams

If you disagree and want to nitpick over whether a couple moves were "meh" instead of bad, that's fine. It doesn't change the point I was trying to make, that he's done at least as much bad as good, and has been mostly "meh". Taking the position that, Guerin, in his three years here, has been mostly "meh" isn't really that different from me saying that he's done mostly "meh" things in his time here.

If you want to make the case that he's actually been mostly good or mostly bad with his moves, I'd love to hear it. But if not, we're on the same page, that he's been mostly "meh".

 

[Minnewildsota]

If you disagree and want to nitpick over whether a couple moves were "meh" instead of bad, that's fine. It doesn't change the point I was trying to make, that he's done at least as much bad as good, and has been mostly "meh". Taking the position that, Guerin, in his three years here, has been mostly "meh" isn't really that different from me saying that he's done mostly "meh" things in his time here.

If you want to make the case that he's actually been mostly good or mostly bad with his moves, I'd love to hear it. But if not, we're on the same page, that he's been mostly "meh".

Why not say he's done as much good as bad?

 

[AKL]

Yeah I think this assessment is a little harsh. I support the logic of almost everything Guerin's done. Where he goes wrong is when he gets a bit too emotional, as seems to be the case with the Menell and Staal (and Boudreau) situations.

Even a little deal like getting Bjugstad.. he's not a world-beater but a solid NHLer for a 7th round pick is meh+ work, at least.

I know Greenway has disappointed this season to some extent, but I think he has a fair market contract that many teams would probably willingly bet on.

What percentages would you assign to "good", "meh, and "bad" if you were to evaluate his tenure here?

And when I say the Greenway move was bad, it's not just about his disappointing on ice performance (the inconsistency, mainly), it's that we're already struggling to make the cap work, and given his issues, he's a luxury moreso than a need at 3M. If we were working with a full 81.5M in cap space? Sure it's a fine contract. But given our situation, we should have gotten assets for him and let someone else bet on that.

Why not say he's done as much good as bad?

Because it is my personal opinion that he's done slightly more bad than good, as explained above. If you have a differing opinion, please explain it, instead of petty troll attempts like "it doesn't fit the narrative".

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

As far as what I consider to be relatively "major" moves...

Good, varying degrees:
Zucker trade
Kaprizov extension
Foligno extension
Hartman extension
Brodin extension
Kulikov signing
Parise buyout

Unsure:
Spurgeon extension (yes, putting that in here for now, instead of "bad", but I understand why people would disagree)
Eriksson Ek extension (closer to good than the alternative though)
Greenway extension
Kunin trade (heavily dependent on Marat)

Not a fan:
Fiala contract situation
Suter buyout + Goligoski signing

Might have missed one or two.

 

[Sad People]

Im new to all this and following hockey this closely but getting Bjugstad for a 7th seems like a great trade imo

 

[Joseph Nathan]

What percentages would you assign to "good", "meh, and "bad" if you were to evaluate his tenure here?

And when I say the Greenway move was bad, it's not just about his disappointing on ice performance (the inconsistency, mainly), it's that we're already struggling to make the cap work, and given his issues, he's a luxury moreso than a need at 3M. If we were working with a full 81.5M in cap space? Sure it's a fine contract. But given our situation, we should have gotten assets for him and let someone else bet on that.

Greenway was kept because Ek struggled without him
Foligno struggled without him
They struggled without each other
Our pk has been poor because for whatever reason, all three players can't play with others and communicate

So what is exactly greenway issue? Yes, he's very inconsistent. when people say he gets pushed around, I will push back and say he gets taken down with dirty hits, and others hits on him , or blatant interference that should led to penalties for wild but it doesn't

As far as what I consider to be relatively "major" moves...

Good, varying degrees:
Zucker trade
Kaprizov extension
Foligno extension
Hartman extension
Brodin extension
Kulikov signing
Parise buyout

Unsure:
Spurgeon extension (yes, putting that in here for now, instead of "bad", but I understand why people would disagree)
Eriksson Ek extension (closer to good than the alternative though)
Greenway extension
Kunin trade (heavily dependent on Marat)

Not a fan:
Fiala contract situation
Suter buyout + Goligoski signing

Might have missed one or two.

Very Much disagree with you on suter. He and Parise were a cancer, and it seems they didn't gel with dumba, and several other wild teammates.

Is fiala worth 9mil like kaprizov zdx? I have begun to wonder whether he's not coming off that which is why there hasn't been one reports of extension talks?

Eriksson signing is great
Kunin would have been lost in expansion. (Yes, you are right it depends on Marat)

 

[AKL]

Greenway was kept because Ek struggled without him
Foligno struggled without him
They struggled without each other
Our pk has been poor because for whatever reason, all three players can't play with others and communicate

So what is exactly greenway issue? Yes, he's very inconsistent. when people say he gets pushed around, I will push back and say he gets taken down with dirty hits, and others hits on him , or blatant interference that should led to penalties for wild but it doesn't

I'm not seeing what you're seeing with Greenway

Kunin would have been lost in expansion. (Yes, you are right it depends on Marat)

That might be true, but then we'd still have Soucy and our defense would be a lot better, and that would probably translate to our goaltending being a little better.

 

[Webster]

One last thing, why do people want to rid of kaprizov's safety net in Zuccarello?

Good question, age perhaps? This seems to be the only criteria for some fans. But it doesn't hold water imo, as we can see that some players in their mid 30's are doing very well.

I'd say when Zuccarello's contract expires he'll re-sign a yr at 2-3M. He's important to this team for many reasons...Kaprizov, playmaking, leadership, playoff experience etc.

 

[Joseph Nathan]

Good question, age perhaps? This seems to be the only criteria for some fans. But it doesn't hold water imo, as we can see that some players in their mid 30's are doing very well.

I'd say when Zuccarello's contract expires he'll re-sign a yr at 2-3M. He's important to this team for many reasons...Kaprizov, playmaking, leadership, playoff experience etc.

Perfectly said

 

[Sota Popinski]

Good question, age perhaps? This seems to be the only criteria for some fans. But it doesn't hold water imo, as we can see that some players in their mid 30's are doing very well.

I'd say when Zuccarello's contract expires he'll re-sign a yr at 2-3M. He's important to this team for many reasons...Kaprizov, playmaking, leadership, playoff experience etc.

People want to get rid of Zucc simply because they view it as an either/or with Dumba and Fiala. And those two could potentially be on the team in 7-8 years whereas we know Zucc won't.

 

[AKL]

People want to get rid of Zucc simply because they view it as an either/or with Dumba and Fiala. And those two could potentially be on the team in 7-8 years whereas we know Zucc won't.

Fiala is also better and Dumba plays defense, which is a more important position than wing. Those are important factors too.