Mikko Koivu [Mod Warning Post #955]

[Wild11MN]

And if he wasn't robbed by anderson and neimi and didn't have a goal called of he would have five goals he is third on the team in taking shots.

Yeah but if you wanna play that game we'd probably be 11-2 right now. Whether he was robbed or it was a routine save, it counts the same. It seems like we have too many players who regularly get 'robbed'. The truth is we just don't have great finishers still. You are right about him shooting more, which is a good sign.

I've always been a pro-Koivu guy, but this start is unacceptable. He has been playing better the past few games, though, that's for sure.

Someone pointed it out above, but odd how the top three guys that I think need to get going the most are all Finns.. our top 3 centers.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Ever since Parise went out, Koivu's been the best forward and it's not even close at all.

That isn't hard when our forwards have been a turd sandwich. Though hopefully Koivu will translate that beast mode into points soon.

 

[Eye Floater]

Koivu's playing like crap... 3 points still. That's less than 1 pt per 4 games. That's ridiculous. How he played against San Jose is how he needs to play 82 games. Parise has no problem doing that.

About the only positive thing that can be said about Koivu this year is this: he's winning faceoffs and put home his one shootout opportunity. Otherwise, nothing. He's beyond invisible. I'm tired of people trying to defend him. HE HAS THREEEEEE POINTS THIS YEAR.

This..this is just flat out wrong. Like Jarick said, he has been the best forward out there the past handful of games, and it really isn't close. He is one of the few bright spots in our forward group right now. His line is the only line capable of providing any sustained offensive pressure right now.

So Koivu has 3 points. Well, Granlund has 5, and Haula has 1. All of our centers need to score more. Not just Koivu. All of our centers are under-producing offensively this year. At least Koivu and his line are getting close.

 

[NHLPodium]

It's clear that Parise deserves the C. I can't believe Koivu still has it. We are not the same without Parise on the ice.

 

[DeuceMN]

It's clear that Parise deserves the C. I can't believe Koivu still has it. We are not the same without Parise on the ice.

The whole team has been **** the last few games. Parise there or not should not make that much of a difference if our team was playing the way it should be.

You think Parise has some special gift that all the other guys on our team can play without? You think he's not around during practices and spending time with the team offering his sage advice still?

No. We have a team of professionals not playing well. It's a group effort and Parise is only one voice on it.

Parise having the C wouldn't change a damned thing.

It's like some people just base their perspective on what's shown to them on TV and completely forget that these guys pretty much live and work together all the time, and that we have no idea what goes on when the TV camera is not on them.

 

[Generic User]

Can we please avoid turning this into another "who deserves the captaincy" thread? It's been discussed to death and the conversation is always the same.

 

[countrygentleman]

Anyone else see Russo mention on twitter to a fan that the Wild at least discussed moving Koivu during off season organizational meetings? Russo implied that they were hesitant then but that might not really be the case after the first fifth of this season. Food for thought... I think the wild would be better off without him. And vanek who is essentially heatley 2.0 We could use that $12+ mil cap space for someone who might actually contribute tp the cause.

 

[Jarick]

Granlund right now is playing like about a third line center, Haula's playing like a fourth line LW, and that would leave Brodziak and Carter. Moving Koivu right now would be giving up on the season.

I would agree IF Granlund was playing near PPG and Haula was pushing for a big role...but they aren't.

 

[Nharris31]

Moving koivu would make the wild an awful possession team.

 

[Gaps]

Anyone else see Russo mention on twitter to a fan that the Wild at least discussed moving Koivu during off season organizational meetings? Russo implied that they were hesitant then but that might not really be the case after the first fifth of this season. Food for thought... I think the wild would be better off without him. And vanek who is essentially heatley 2.0 We could use that $12+ mil cap space for someone who might actually contribute tp the cause.

I can find no such thing on Twitter so you are going to have to provide a link.

As for the actual idea: well, I'm sure Parise & co would appreciate going into rebuild mode at this stage.

 

[NHLPodium]

Anyone else see Russo mention on twitter to a fan that the Wild at least discussed moving Koivu during off season organizational meetings? Russo implied that they were hesitant then but that might not really be the case after the first fifth of this season. Food for thought... I think the wild would be better off without him. And vanek who is essentially heatley 2.0 We could use that $12+ mil cap space for someone who might actually contribute tp the cause.

The Wild wanted to trade Koivu for Kesler last year but Vancouver didn't approve of it.

 

[countrygentleman]

I can find no such thing on Twitter so you are going to have to provide a link.

As for the actual idea: well, I'm sure Parise & co would appreciate going into rebuild mode at this stage.

Sorry I'm at work on mobile or else I would have linked it originally.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Russostrib/status/532544349012516865

I fail to see how moving a faceoff/shootout specialist on the downhill of his career with 3 points in fourteen games would trigger a rebuild. His +/- is nothing special anymore indicating he's lost major strides in the defensive zone he once was elite in.

 

[Generic User]

The Wild wanted to trade Koivu for Kesler last year but Vancouver didn't approve of it.

Source?

 

[Gaps]

Sorry I'm at work on mobile or else I would have linked it originally.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Russostrib/status/532544349012516865

I fail to see how moving a faceoff/shootout specialist on the downhill of his career with 3 points in fourteen games would trigger a rebuild. His +/- is nothing special anymore indicating he's lost major strides in the defensive zone he once was elite in.

Thanks for the link. So it's basically the same thing that was brought up last season but that seemed very vague and it was left unclear how serious of a talk it even was. I'm not going to put any more weight on it now than I did back when Russo mentioned it for the first time.

What do you call a team with top 2 centers that have an average age of 22.5 years, have played a combined 183 NHL games (including playoffs), scored a combined 83 points in the NHL (including playoffs), that can't be trusted to win faceoffs, drive puck possession, defend well or provide enough offense on a consistent basis? I would call that a rebuilding team.

+/- is the crappiest stat ever and doesn't make for a good argument for/against an individual player without context.

 

[DeuceMN]

The Wild wanted to trade Koivu for Kesler last year but Vancouver didn't approve of it.

I read every Wild article I can find and I never once heard anything like that.

If there were any legs to it Russo would have been on top of it as well.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I read every Wild article I can find and I never once heard anything like that.

If there were any legs to it Russo would have been on top of it as well.

Also as I've been told; NMC. No way would Koivu go to Vancouver.

 

[plock]

Also as I've been told; NMC. No way would Koivu go to Vancouver.

All Russo said was that it has been discussed (and discounted) in organizational meetings.I'm sure in current organizational meetings they are discussing possible moves involving pretty much any player not named Suter,Pommenville or Parise and probably Vanek as well.It is becoming pretty obvious that Fletcher has to shake things up somehow.Trading a veteran player would send a message that there are no sacred cows and if you don't perform you're not going to be in the team.They have Koivu,Cooke,Brodziak, and Ballard (maybe Vanek as well though I doubt it) to deal in a possible trade.The problems are..

Koivu- Has a NMC and would have to waive it so it limits the options.

Cooke- All the baggage and possible fan backlash limit any type of decent return,never going to get full value for him.

Brodziak-They tried hard to move him last year and over the summer.

Ballard-Just not really a lot of trade value there,maybe to a team that is really hurting on D.

So if they are going to move any of those guys out and upgrade the team in the process they will probably have to move a prospect and/or draft picks.Fletcher has been reluctant to deal prospects in the past but the fact is we have too many prospects trying to fill roles they are not ready for.If they could add a significant player by moving one of those veterans and a prospect/draft picks it may be a good move.The Wild aren't going to guarantee making the playoffs in November but if they continue to put up these results they could destroy their chances to make it through.

 

[Wild11MN]

The only way we could move Koivu is if we upgrade at the C position, and that doesn't really seem plausible. No one will want him at the cost on the downswing of his career, especially giving up a better center.

Always been a big Koivu fan, but there's no way around it - we have major issues at C right now, and it'll be hard to win a cup with our situation at center now/in the next few years.

 

[plock]

The only way we could move Koivu is if we upgrade at the C position, and that doesn't really seem plausible. No one will want him at the cost on the downswing of his career, especially giving up a better center.

Always been a big Koivu fan, but there's no way around it - we have major issues at C right now, and it'll be hard to win a cup with our situation at center now/in the next few years.

Well you never know. S.J. wants to move Thornton,Edmonton may want to move youth for experience.Los Angeles is right up against the cap end may have to shed the salary of Mike Richards,how about Brodziak ,Ballard and a 3rd. round pick for Richards?

 

[countrygentleman]

Well you never know. S.J. wants to move Thornton,Edmonton may want to move youth for experience.Los Angeles is right up against the cap end may have to shed the salary of Mike Richards,how about Brodziak ,Ballard and a 3rd. round pick for Richards?

That doesn't move Koivu....

 

[rynryn]

Sorry I'm at work on mobile or else I would have linked it originally.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Russostrib/status/532544349012516865

I fail to see how moving a faceoff/shootout specialist on the downhill of his career with 3 points in fourteen games would trigger a rebuild. His +/- is nothing special anymore indicating he's lost major strides in the defensive zone he once was elite in.

okay, how about this: what in the world are we going to get for said nearly useless and getting worse player besides cap space? Assuming we could then use this cap space on a serious upgrade over Koivu is just plain stupid. It is a rebuild if you're just chucking someone this early in the season in hopes you can turn that into something better the next season. That's a ****ing rebuild. shedding assets now for help later. edit: i should tack on "when the team is already underperforming the way it is." if the team was doing great and it was deemed the player in question could be easily replaced with someone in the system then nah, not a rebuild. if you're jettisoning someone who plays significant minutes and have no one nearly capable of playing the same role then that's a rebuild.

 

[plock]

That doesn't move Koivu....

It possibly moves him to third line center.

 

[countrygentleman]

okay, how about this: what in the world are we going to get for said nearly useless and getting worse player besides cap space? Assuming we could then use this cap space on a serious upgrade over Koivu is just plain stupid. It is a rebuild if you're just chucking someone this early in the season in hopes you can turn that into something better the next season. That's a ****ing rebuild. shedding assets now for help later. edit: i should tack on "when the team is already underperforming the way it is." if the team was doing great and it was deemed the player in question could be easily replaced with someone in the system then nah, not a rebuild. if you're jettisoning someone who plays significant minutes and have no one nearly capable of playing the same role then that's a rebuild.

I guess it just comes down to a fundamental difference of opinions. I don't consider Koivu much of an asset anymore. More of a liability in my eyes.

 

[countrygentleman]

It possibly moves him to third line center.

I would still expect my third line center to put up more than the 20 points Koivu's on pace for. So I don't see how that solves anything.

 

[plock]

okay, how about this: what in the world are we going to get for said nearly useless and getting worse player besides cap space? Assuming we could then use this cap space on a serious upgrade over Koivu is just plain stupid. It is a rebuild if you're just chucking someone this early in the season in hopes you can turn that into something better the next season. That's a ****ing rebuild. shedding assets now for help later. edit: i should tack on "when the team is already underperforming the way it is." if the team was doing great and it was deemed the player in question could be easily replaced with someone in the system then nah, not a rebuild. if you're jettisoning someone who plays significant minutes and have no one nearly capable of playing the same role then that's a rebuild.

Well it probably wouldn't be Koivu alone but Koivu + a prospect.At this point I think we have too many prospects trying to fill roles they are not yet ready for.Everybody wants to move Zucker,Nino and Haula up into the top 6 but the truth is when they have been in that position they have failed to produce,Coyle and Granlund have also not produced enough this season to justify top 6 status.And it would not be jettisoning the player(s) for nothing but getting a significant return a player with term on his contract who is better than Koivu.
Is there anyone out there who fits that description?