Mike Modano or Anze Kopitar?

[SeanMoneyHands]

Peak and career, who was the better of the two?

Kopitar - 1211pts in 1372 games. 2 cups, 2 Selkes.
Modano - 1374pts in 1499 games, 1 cup.

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[HolyHagelin]

Solid comparo, i will dig in a little more on them before i vote, flash reaction is that they are practically the same player

 

[x Tame Impala]

I missed a lot of Modano’s career, but based on narrative would it be fair to say Kopitar was a more effective player while Modano had more skill?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Quoting myself from another recent thread:

"I was going to do a deep dive when I have time, but there are a lot of parallels between Modano and Kopitar.

Both spent all (or virtually all) of their career with a southern USA team. Both were excellent two-way players, and probably could have scored more, had they not focused on defense so diligently. Both were pretty clearly the best forward on their team for the majority of their careers. Neither had a really huge peak season (the closest would be Kopitar's 2018 campaign), but were steadily in the 5-10 range among forwards for an extended period. Neither was overly physical, but they weren't pushed around. Both lost the Conn Smythe to a weaker forward in playoff runs when they really should have won.

In terms of differences - Modano was a better skater, and a better goal-scorer. Kopitar was a better playmaker (but overall offensive production was similar). Kopitar's Selke trophy voting results look much stronger, but I think that exaggerates the gap (he was better defensively than Modano, but not by nearly as large a gap as the results would suggest)."

 

[HolyHagelin]

Quoting myself from another recent thread:

"I was going to do a deep dive when I have time, but there are a lot of parallels between Modano and Kopitar.

Both spent all (or virtually all) of their career with a southern USA team. Both were excellent two-way players, and probably could have scored more, had they not focused on defense so diligently. Both were pretty clearly the best forward on their team for the majority of their careers. Neither had a really huge peak season (the closest would be Kopitar's 2018 campaign), but were steadily in the 5-10 range among forwards for an extended period. Neither was overly physical, but they weren't pushed around. Both lost the Conn Smythe to a weaker forward in playoff runs when they really should have won.

In terms of differences - Modano was a better skater, and a better goal-scorer. Kopitar was a better playmaker (but overall offensive production was similar). Kopitar's Selke trophy voting results look much stronger, but I think that exaggerates the gap (he was better defensively than Modano, but not by nearly as large a gap as the results would suggest)."

Modano also lost votes to Guy Carbonneau on his own team for a chunk of years; Carbonneau was so good at defense for so long guys were still arguing for him out of habit.

I missed a lot of Modano’s career, but based on narrative would it be fair to say Kopitar was a more effective player while Modano had more skill?

Saw more Modano than I have of Kopitar, I think the best thing I can say about Modano is that the only reason people have Patty Kane ahead of him as the best US forward is 3>1, nobody who saw them both really thought Kane was better.

Modano had a 50 goal 90 point year and was basically in the doghouse with his coach because he wasn’t playing defense as hard as offense. The narrative around him at the time was “as soon as he sacrificed his offense for the team they became the best team.”

I don’t think I ever heard arguments that Kopitar was the best forward in the league, with Modano there was a few year stretch where he was in that conversation. Ultimately I don’t think Modano’s career lived up to how we talked about him the first 5-7

 

[norrisnick]

Modano also lost votes to Guy Carbonneau on his own team for a chunk of years; Carbonneau was so good at defense for so long guys were still arguing for him out of habit.

Saw more Modano than I have of Kopitar, I think the best thing I can say about Modano is that the only reason people have Patty Kane ahead of him as the best US forward is 3>1, nobody who saw them both really thought Kane was better.

Modano had a 50 goal 90 point year and was basically in the doghouse with his coach because he wasn’t playing defense as hard as offense. The narrative around him at the time was “as soon as he sacrificed his offense for the team they became the best team.”

I don’t think I ever heard arguments that Kopitar was the best forward in the league, with Modano there was a few year stretch where he was in that conversation. Ultimately I don’t think Modano’s career lived up to how we talked about him the first 5-7

Maybe in Minny and/or Texas, but as far the rest of the hockey watching world goes, none of that is ringing any bells.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Modano AINEC

 

[Regal]

Both pretty similar levels of players though went about it differently. I think I liked Modano slightly more in his prime, but Kopitar’s refined his defensive game earlier and looks to be aging better. I could see Kopitar having the case for career when all is said and done.

 

[Spotty 2 Hotty]

Maybe in Minny and/or Texas, but as far the rest of the hockey watching world goes, none of that is ringing any bells.

Thank the Hockey Gods we have someone like you who speaks for the entirety of the hockey world to set the record straight.

 

[Siludin]

Maybe in Minny and/or Texas, but as far the rest of the hockey watching world goes, none of that is ringing any bells.

Modano was as big a name as any of the other 90s players because he was perfectly nestled in that new wave of player while consequently also being an American. Roenick got similar treatment.
Nobody thought Modano was better than Bure, Gretzky, Fedorov - they were just excited that there were some young guys who would seemingly have the potential to be perennial all-stars.

 

[Albatros]

Kopitar peak and career. More success, significantly better defensively, about the same offensively.

 

[LokiDog]

Kopi’s stats are pretty much identical pace wise but the fact that he could have had a few more Selkes if not for the existence of Bergeron makes this an easy Kopitar for me. I live in Dallas, I went to the the Modano statue unveiling, I have tons of love for the high flying game he played in his prime, but I’m always going to go with the complete player over the flashy one when points are similar.

 

[Rorschach]

Can someone compare their wingers?

 

[Felidae]

Kopitar's Selke trophy voting results look much stronger, but I think that exaggerates the gap (he was better defensively than Modano, but not by nearly as large a gap as the results would suggest)."

I'm curious, why do you say this?

As another user pointed out earlier, Kopitar was competing with Bergeron and prime Toews for the selke.

Modano often times wasn't seen as the best defensive forward on his team, so you can't even say where he played affected his placements that much given Lethinen finished higher most years.

Lastly, Modano turned into a two way player later in his career, which is also reflected in his selke record.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I'm curious, why do you say this?

As another user pointed out earlier, Kopitar was competing with Bergeron and prime Toews for the selke.

Modano often times wasn't seen as the best defensive forward on his team, so you can't even say where he played affected his placements that much given Lethinen finished higher most years.

Lastly, Modano turned into a two way player later in his career, which is also reflected in his selke record.

Ultimately, I agree that Kopitar was the better defensive player. What I meant (but didn't really explain) is the voting for the Selke was different during Modano's prime.

During Modano's prime, generally speaking, the voters picked lower scoring 2nd and 3rd line players as the Selke winners/finalists (Lehtinen, Peca, Madden, Draper, Walz, Ricci, Handzus, Arvedson, McCauley etc). Yes, there were exceptions (Forsberg, Sakic) but generally the voters seemed to focus on the forwards who scored less, and really focused on defense. During Kopitar's prime, it felt like the voters were looking for two-way forwards (who played great defense, but also scored a fair bit - Bergeron, Datsyuk, Toews, Richards, Kesler, Couturier, O'Reilly, Stone, Barkov, etc).

I think that if they switched eras, Modano's voting record for the Selke trophy would have improved, and Kopitar's would have gotten worse, simply due to changes in what the voters look for.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I'm curious, why do you say this?

As another user pointed out earlier, Kopitar was competing with Bergeron and prime Toews for the selke.

Modano often times wasn't seen as the best defensive forward on his team, so you can't even say where he played affected his placements that much given Lethinen finished higher most years.

Lastly, Modano turned into a two way player later in his career, which is also reflected in his selke record.

Modano was also really soft early in his career. I remember the year when he scored 50 the hockey news yearbook said something like Modano finally figured out you have to get your hands dirty to score 50 in this league. Something to that effect.

I always maintain that Modano improved defensively, but looks better than he actually was because of his team's philosophy, great goaltending, and a Selke winning winger riding shotgun.

 

[norrisnick]

Ultimately, I agree that Kopitar was the better defensive player. What I meant (but didn't really explain) is the voting for the Selke was different during Modano's prime.

During Modano's prime, generally speaking, the voters picked lower scoring 2nd and 3rd line players as the Selke winners/finalists (Lehtinen, Peca, Madden, Draper, Walz, Ricci, Handzus, Arvedson, McCauley etc). Yes, there were exceptions (Forsberg, Sakic) but generally the voters seemed to focus on the forwards who scored less, and really focused on defense. During Kopitar's prime, it felt like the voters were looking for two-way forwards (who played great defense, but also scored a fair bit - Bergeron, Datsyuk, Toews, Richards, Kesler, Couturier, O'Reilly, Stone, Barkov, etc).

I think that if they switched eras, Modano's voting record for the Selke trophy would have improved, and Kopitar's would have gotten worse, simply due to changes in what the voters look for.

Lehtinen was Modano's most common winger on the top line.