Player Discussion Mike Matheson

[Mrb1p]

I'm not going to harp on him too much, he's playing 5 minutes more per game than he should. It's not his fault we got nobody else for now.

5 minutes on the pp yeah

 

[The Great Weal]

5 minutes on the pp yeah

The whole PP kinda sucks right now

 

[Habby4Life]

The whole PP kinda sucks right now

Matheson isn’t being used properly because of the inexperience of the rest of the D core. He has value if used properly.

PP has sucked for years, so has the PK. Like the rest of the roster, the coaching staff needs serious improvement. Its time to move on from Letowski and Burrows.

I like MSL but he needs better assistant coaches, ones with much more experience while he develops as a head coach.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Most of Matheson issues arent fatigue, playing too much per say, or quality of competition

Most is just he makes careless plays or high risk plays when the simple play is more effective. Thats what gets him in the most trouble

He is his own worst enemy like going 1 on 3 in overtime

 

[Scintillating10]

Most of Matheson issues arent fatigue, playing too much per say, or quality of competition

Most is just he makes careless plays or high risk plays when the simple play is more effective. Thats what gets him in the most trouble

He is his own worst enemy like going 1 on 3 in overtime

He's most popularizing player I think Habs have ever had. Some games he looks like Norris candidate. Next game he would challenge Subban for lead in stupid turnovers and poor positioning. IDK, it's not common.

 

[Lshap]

Most of Matheson issues arent fatigue, playing too much per say, or quality of competition

Most is just he makes careless plays or high risk plays when the simple play is more effective. Thats what gets him in the most trouble

He is his own worst enemy like going 1 on 3 in overtime

I think it still comes down to usage. Matheson is given responsibility beyond his capabilities, which we see in the erratic results. Narrow his role - a function of less ice time and better coaching - and he'd probably play a much cleaner game.

 

[Mrb1p]

Most of Matheson issues arent fatigue, playing too much per say, or quality of competition

Most is just he makes careless plays or high risk plays when the simple play is more effective. Thats what gets him in the most trouble

He is his own worst enemy like going 1 on 3 in overtime

Yep. Most of his plays are just him being god awful. Hed still be god awful if he played less, hed just get less opportunities to do so.

I think it still comes down to usage. Matheson is given responsibility beyond his capabilities, which we see in the erratic results. Narrow his role - a function of less ice time and better coaching - and he'd probably play a much cleaner game.

Like he did in Florida and Pittsburgh? Oh, wait, he was still known to be a terrible defender.

Matter of fact, playing more is probably better for him as hes never produced as much. At least hes producing, in his career prior he was a .4 ppg D and made just as many mistakes.

 

[JianYang]

Most of Matheson issues arent fatigue, playing too much per say, or quality of competition

Most is just he makes careless plays or high risk plays when the simple play is more effective. Thats what gets him in the most trouble

He is his own worst enemy like going 1 on 3 in overtime

Of course quality of competition has something to do with it. There are inherent flaws in his game and what makes the top guys the top guys is that they don't need much to make you pay for mistakes.

If you slide a guy down so that he plays the opposing middle 6 more often, then you get away with more, and you also don't get into the same amount of jams.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Of course quality of competition has something to do with it. There are inherent flaws in his game and what makes the top guys the top guys is that they don't need much to make you pay for mistakes.

If you slide a guy down so that he plays the opposing middle 6 more often, then you get away with more, and you also don't get into the same amount of jams.

But he still made the mistake from his own poor decision making that he could avoid by making a simpler play.

Just shows more of his dumbassery that he tries these plays versus much better players then himself

 

[JianYang]

But he still made the mistake from his own poor decision making that he could avoid by making a simpler play.

Just shows more of his dumbassery that he tries these plays versus much better players then himself

I'm not going to go to in depth on a 3 on 3 overtime play, but yeah, generally, he has moments where I feel like pulling my hair out.

When you put someone out of their realm for an extended period of time, the warts get compounded. It becomes a mental game as well, and from a physical standpoint, that fatigue of playing above your lot (and playing alot) in the league could also lead to increased mishaps.

 

[Pomee]

I dont agree with that argument, that 5 more minutes of his ice time is the reason he sucks.
First of all, Matheson is the one who take those long shifts and refuse to change.
Second, when he has to make decision between simple effective option (like make an easy pass to the wing) or more complicated option (like turn other way and try to deke between two players)
he chooses the complicated one, what ends up in him losing the puck or worse.
Thats how he is wired and his ice time wont change that.

He is now -30!
There is only 6 players in the whole NHL, who are worse than him in the +/- stat.
Thats simply inexcusable! For him and for the coaching stuff.

 

[rik schau]

He is having one heck of an impressive offensive season,great to see.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

He is having one heck of an impressive offensive season,great to see.

Maybe we can find a sucker and sell high

 

[Rapala]

The whole PP kinda sucks right now

They're stuck to that left side approach that doesn't really work.
Not to mention some of the success there came off Suzuki's one timer not Cole's.
Essentially I see two players in a space that should be covered by one man moving with the play and trying to open seams.
Suzuki working with Slaf would present a different animal in my opinion.
I'd like to see Slaf slide down sometimes and interchange with Suzuki on others.
This will perhaps free up Caufield if he continues to move his feet. It will also keep Suzuki on his better passing side.
His weak side backhand is getting picked off far too often lately.

 

[Rapala]

Matheson is good when he can limit his decision making which he struggles with on occasion.
Simple plays move the puck immediately. Stop trying to do it all yourself.
He infuriates me when he turns back on himself when there is no room.
It actually keeps the play alive for the opposition.
It also increases the likelihood we will be stuck with one of those shifts from hell.
Just fire it off the glass make it a constant. Break up the play get some air regroup.
I won't get into his PP work because he shouldn't be there. I think we have better options.
We certainly don't for top pairing...
yet.

 

[teamfirst]

Maybe we can find a sucker and sell high

That sir is the thing to do but.........he is good in the room and the room is part of the culture wich is part of the concept, you know what i mean

 

[The Great Weal]

I think it still comes down to usage. Matheson is given responsibility beyond his capabilities, which we see in the erratic results. Narrow his role - a function of less ice time and better coaching - and he'd probably play a much cleaner game.

People have a hard time understanding that a #3-4 dman who's 5th in ice time per game for dmen will struggle. If he didn't make as many mistakes and made the simple play, he'd be a premier dman in the league to handle those kinds of minutes and make few mistakes. That's not who he is, and logically, less ice time = less opportunities to make mistakes.

 

[Mrb1p]

55% of his points come from A2s.

Maybe we can find a sucker and sell high

55% secondary assists, most of them on the PP. Were bound to crash and burn if hes not moved quickly.

Matheson is good when he can limit his decision making which he struggles with on occasion.
Simple plays move the puck immediately. Stop trying to do it all yourself.
He infuriates me when he turns back on himself when there is no room.
It actually keeps the play alive for the opposition.
It also increases the likelihood we will be stuck with one of those shifts from hell.
Just fire it off the glass make it a constant. Break up the play get some air regroup.
I won't get into his PP work because he shouldn't be there. I think we have better options.
We certainly don't for top pairing...
yet.

Guhle-Savard would do a much, much better job of
A) actually developping Guhle.
B) providing offense and defense
c) letting Matheson exploit his only redeeming quality against weaker opposition, his transition game.
d) limit Mothers Milks playing time.

The only problem is that the coaching staff is very bad at matchup management and other (good) coaches will exploit Mothers Milk without Big play Dave or Gool on his right.

People have a hard time understanding that a #3-4 dman who's 5th in ice time per game for dmen will struggle. If he didn't make as many mistakes and made the simple play, he'd be a premier dman in the league to handle those kinds of minutes and make few mistakes. That's not who he is, and logically, less ice time = less opportunities to make mistakes.

This is all disproved by his play with the Pens and Panthers though. He played less and was just as horrible. Hes a bad hockey player that plays too much, like you said, the only thing youre getting from less ice time is just less bad.

 

[The Great Weal]

This is all disproved by his play with the Pens and Panthers though. He played less and was just as horrible.

I mean he wasn't. Hell, he wasn't even this bad last year for us. It's literally impossible to make the same amount of mistakes with 7 minutes less ice time and not playing against the other team's top guys every shift.

 

[Le Tricolore]

I mean he wasn't. Hell, he wasn't even this bad last year for us. It's literally impossible to make the same amount of mistakes with 7 minutes less ice time and not playing against the other team's top guys every shift.

Literally impossible? We're talking about Mike Matheson.

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean he wasn't. Hell, he wasn't even this bad last year for us. It's literally impossible to make the same amount of mistakes with 7 minutes less ice time and not playing against the other team's top guys every shift.

He was. Do you remember his 2021 POs for the Pens? 4th or 5th in ice-time. He was literally ridiculed by the hockey world.


He has been like that for his whole career. Ive been following him since his Dubuque days, I had him ranked in the first round. Hes been like.this for more than a decade now. Go read up old threads here or on reddit. Hes f***ing bad lol, this isnt some new development. He drags down whole defensive squads.

Remember KKs only highlight? It was on Matheson who tried to pokecheck lazily, took the wrong angle and then gave up on the play. He was 20 times the skater KK was.

2020:

Florida Panthers: Michael Matheson has become a liability

Florida Panthers defenseman Mike Matheson has been a huge liability in the Stanley Cup Playoffs for his team, as he has cost them the past two games.

puckprose.com

2021:

Florida Panthers: Is Defenseman Mike Matheson Untradeable?

Does Mike Matheson's horrid 2018-19 season make him expendable or would the Florida Panthers be jumping the gun if they were to trade him so soon?

therattrick.com

 

[The Great Weal]

Literally impossible? We're talking about Mike Matheson.

If you make 3 mistakes a shift and play 7 more minutes than you should, you make a lot more mistakes.

He was. Do you remember his 2021 POs for the Pens? 4th or 5th in ice-time. He was literally ridiculed by the hockey world.

And then he was 3rd in ice time in the 2022 playoffs where he had 6 points in 7 games.

He has been like that for his whole career. Ive been following him since his Dubuque days, I had him ranked in the first round. Hes been like.this for more than a decade now. Go read up old threads here or on reddit. Hes f***ing bad lol, this isnt some new development. He drags down whole defensive squads.

He literally wasn't this bad last year. Even if I've never heard of him as a player until last year when he joined our team, by definition, he's not always been this horrible because he wasn't this horrible last year.

Remember KKs only highlight? It was on Matheson who tried to pokecheck lazily, took the wrong angle and then gave up on the play. He was 20 times the skater KK was.

What does this have to do with Matheson playing too much as a Montreal Canadien?

2020:

Florida Panthers: Michael Matheson has become a liability

Florida Panthers defenseman Mike Matheson has been a huge liability in the Stanley Cup Playoffs for his team, as he has cost them the past two games.

puckprose.com

2021:

Florida Panthers: Is Defenseman Mike Matheson Untradeable?

Does Mike Matheson's horrid 2018-19 season make him expendable or would the Florida Panthers be jumping the gun if they were to trade him so soon?

therattrick.com

Yes he was pretty much a cap dump at the time. Tatar was also a cap dump for the Knights and then he ended up becoming a pretty great player for us until the playoffs. You're going way off topic here. My whole point is that a #3-4 dman should not be top 5 in ice time in the league. Talking about how KK turned him inside out like 5 years ago and him sucking as a Panther doesn't change what I'm saying. I've never claimed that he's a mistake-free player because if he was and can play this type of minutes, he'd be a top 10 dman in the league making less than 5 million. In terms of the sheer quantity of mistakes, playing 7 minutes more than you should will yield more mistakes. So no, it's impossible to be "as horrible" by making as many mistakes when you play a lot less. He wasn't even this bad last year despite playing way too much still.

 

[Mrb1p]

If you make 3 mistakes a shift and play 7 more minutes than you should, you make a lot more mistakes.

And then he was 3rd in ice time in the 2022 playoffs where he had 6 points in 7 games.

He literally wasn't this bad last year. Even if I've never heard of him as a player until last year when he joined our team, by definition, he's not always been this horrible because he wasn't this horrible last year.

What does this have to do with Matheson playing too much as a Montreal Canadien?

Yes he was pretty much a cap dump at the time. Tatar was also a cap dump for the Knights and then he ended up becoming a pretty great player for us until the playoffs. You're going way off topic here. My whole point is that a #3-4 dman should not be top 5 in ice time in the league. Talking about how KK turned him inside out like 5 years ago and him sucking as a Panther doesn't change what I'm saying. I've never claimed that he's a mistake-free player because if he was and can play this type of minutes, he'd be a top 10 dman in the league making less than 5 million.

My whole point is that hes not a #3, mayyybe a #4, most likely hes a bottom pairing D, which is what hes been his whole career before joining the Habs.

4 secondary assists in 6 games doesnt mean much, its pretty much the exact same thing thats happening here, stats padding and people get excited.

I disgress. Hes not gonna be "better" when hes on the 2nd pair, hes never gonna be adequate for a PO team, hes shown so in his career. Ergo, we need to stop with the "plays too much" excuse. We need to get in the "gtfo" train.

I compared his situation with Danaults earlier for us, Phil was a perfect 3C and would probably be a very good 2C to play behind Nick, ironically. Do you think Matheson has a similar effect on this roster? I mean maybe as a 5/6D. Theres no way I want that guy manning one of my top two pairs if Im a playoff team.

 

[OldCraig71]

The puck bobble at the blueline is an autopilot feature of Mike Matheson. He has flaws but I love his skating, so smooth and effortless. When he turns behind the net with the puck and strides up the ice it is a thing of beauty.

 

[The Great Weal]

My whole point is that hes not a #3, mayyybe a #4, most likely hes a bottom pairing D, which is what hes been his whole career before joining the Habs.

Ok so a #4-5 dman is playing top 5 minutes in the NHL. That's a team issue, not a Matheson issue.

4 secondary assists in 6 games doesnt mean much, its pretty much the exact same thing thats happening here, stats padding and people get excited.

So he wasn't getting ridiculed during the time that Letang was awful in that run and was one of their better players.

I disgress. Hes not gonna be "better" when hes on the 2nd pair, hes never gonna be adequate for a PO team, hes shown so in his career. Ergo, we need to stop with the "plays too much" excuse. We need to get in the "gtfo" train.

Mathematically, he will make less mistakes given that he will play like 7 minutes less. It's not possible to make the same amount of mistakes with that much less ice time. Now factoring in other elements such as quality of competition and less mental strain, it makes it even less likely to make mistakes. We've seen this with a similar player in Petry where he made a lot more mistakes when Weber was out of the lineup.

I compared his situation with Danaults earlier for us, Phil was a perfect 3C and would probably be a very good 2C to play behind Nick, ironically. Do you think Matheson has a similar effect on this roster? I mean maybe as a 5/6D. Theres no way I want that guy manning one of my top two pairs if Im a playoff team.

I'm not sure what you're going on about again. Like I said, he shouldn't be playing this much because his flaws become more apparent. There's nothing more to it.