Mighty turnaround for Toronto Maple Leafs prospects pool

[Mitchy]

It's insane how well our 2015 draft prospects are doing.

 

[sommervr]

Winning a cup is a team achievement , people are conceding JT is a pretty good player because he's actually proven with his play that he's a pretty good player.

I asked what Dubas has done so far to earn praise and i get nothing but speculation . And to be fair, in his position it's hard to gauge what exactly is his influence is on decisons the club makes which is why i said i'll wait until there's tangible results (i.e. promoted to GM) before i pass judgment on his performance .

Dubas has done a good job with the Marlies. Campbell and Holl were amazing pickups. Marlies D lost Granberg and MacWilliam and somehow got better.

Marlies are prioritizing NHL upside over everything else. Some of this is heartless and I hate it (MacWilliam, the Ruperts) but they definitely have a plan.

Marlies new coach is getting the job done too. That was probably the riskiest move Dubas has made. Rookie coach with a lineup full of teenagers but they are getting it done.

 

[Menzinger]

you act like every player we're scouting teams pour the same resources we do into analytics so we can go over the data and make our picks , or are you saying we're breaking down every game teams around the world play ?

I'm also pretty sure the the head of the scouting dept has just a touch more influence over who we pick than the rest of the employees , not to mention Shanny already said it was Hunters call on the scouts and who to draft .

What the **** is this incessant need to praise Dubas for every positive thing that may happen to this team . I'm still waiting to see how the boy genius is going invent new ways in how we use the ECHL in development like he said he would .

We do know the team takes into account various degrees of analyctics when making draft decisions. the leafs likely don't need internalized team numbers for this - they have their resources to take their own data. For example they've recently hired guys like this who have been focusing on building methods and software for data tracking in the minor leagues

http://www.saskatoonblades.com/article/blades-statistical-analyst-is-going-pro

Sure, Hunter seems to be the main guy from the draft, I just take objection to the claim that Dubas is just a PR man with no influence - it's quite the bold claim, when there seems to be a reasonable amount of evidence pointing to his involvement in the drafting process (ie overseeing the Team's ever growing analyctics department). He still deserves some praise for the team's direction, even if his role is likely smaller than Hunters.

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas has done a good job with the Marlies. Campbell and Holl were amazing pickups. Marlies D lost Granberg and MacWilliam and somehow got better.

Marlies are prioritizing NHL upside over everything else. Some of this is heartless and I hate it (MacWilliam, the Ruperts) but they definitely have a plan.

Marlies new coach is getting the job done too. That was probably the riskiest move Dubas has made. Rookie coach with a lineup full of teenagers but they are getting it done.

outside of stat watching i haven't really followed what's going on down there and while they're having a great year i'm wondering how our prospects other than Nylander (who's lighting it up) are doing since the main purpose of the team is develop players for the Leafs

are the kids getting ice time or are the vets carrying a large load ?

 

[sommervr]

outside of stat watching i haven't really followed what's going on down there and while they're having a great year i'm wondering how our prospects other than Nylander (who's lighting it up) are doing since the main purpose of the team is develop players for the Leafs

are the kids getting ice time or are the vets carrying a large load ?

The kids are getting all the ice time they could possibly want. Marlies do alot of back to backs and sometimes 3 in 3 so it's all hands on deck.

It's all development all the time. You can actually see what they are trying to do with the kids and their improvement. For instance Leipsic on zone entries, Gauthier and his skating, Nylander in the D zone.

The days of Eakins playing Komisarek over Rielly are done (yes that actually happened)

 

[hotpaws]

We do know the team takes into account various degrees of analyctics when making draft decisions. the leafs likely don't need internalized team numbers for this - they have their resources to take their own data. For example they've recently hired guys like this who have been focusing on building methods and software for data tracking in the minor leagues

http://www.saskatoonblades.com/article/blades-statistical-analyst-is-going-pro

Sure, Hunter seems to be the main guy from the draft, I just take objection to the claim that Dubas is just a PR man with no influence - it's quite the bold claim, when there seems to be a reasonable amount of evidence pointing to his involvement in the drafting process (ie overseeing the Team's ever growing analyctics department). He still deserves some praise for the team's direction, even if his role is likely smaller than Hunters.

Hunter doesn't seem to be the main guy , he is the main guy and that's why he's the oversees the scouting dept .

I have no problem believing that Dubas and his team provide Hunter and his staff with there data to provide another tool which Hunter may/will use in determining which player he wants to select . All i'm saying is there's a heck of a lot more than goes into drafting a kid than just seeing if he has a positive f/a shot ratio which is pretty much what many of these stats are based on . To me it's a small part of what goes into a team selecting a player . Also Hunters job isn't to determine who's the best player in jr which is what these stats may help in doing . Hunters job is to determine which prospects game best translates to the pros .

Dubas is now the ass't GM to LL who will decide what influence he will have in any personal decisions . Knowing LL he will take Dubies input and regardless of whether he uses it he will keep track of how his views play out to gauge whether he believe his opinion is of value . If it is then he'll become more and more trusted in the decision making process , if he's not providing anything of value he'll be shown the door and that goes for any of the other employees of the team .

 

[Warden of the North]

It's insane how well our 2015 draft prospects are doing.

Jeff Marek said on his podcast that based on what hes heard and seen the Leafs think they hit a homerun with the draft as a whole

 

[hotpaws]

The kids are getting all the ice time they could possibly want. Marlies do alot of back to backs and sometimes 3 in 3 so it's all hands on deck.

It's all development all the time. You can actually see what they are trying to do with the kids and their improvement. For instance Leipsic on zone entries, Gauthier and his skating, Nylander in the D zone.

The days of Eakins playing Komisarek over Rielly are done (yes that actually happened)

good to hear since a winning season would mean nothing if we weren't developing our prospects , as you said we already went through that with Eakins

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

It's insane how well our 2015 draft prospects are doing.

Good scouting. And they drafted small players, but skillful. Maybe overlooked, especially Timmy.

 

[Pholus]

outside of stat watching i haven't really followed what's going on down there and while they're having a great year i'm wondering how our prospects other than Nylander (who's lighting it up) are doing since the main purpose of the team is develop players for the Leafs

are the kids getting ice time or are the vets carrying a large load ?

The kids are getting all the ice time they could possibly want. Marlies do alot of back to backs and sometimes 3 in 3 so it's all hands on deck.

It's all development all the time. You can actually see what they are trying to do with the kids and their improvement. For instance Leipsic on zone entries, Gauthier and his skating, Nylander in the D zone.

The days of Eakins playing Komisarek over Rielly are done (yes that actually happened)

TBH, it seems like the Marlies play a lot of 3-in-3. But yes, the focus is totally on development. Arcobello, Brennan and Campbell are the only vets who are carrying any kind of 'load,' and that's mainly because it helps to insulate the young guys who are developing (ex. Campbell plays with Valiev, so when Campbell gets lots of ice time, Valiev also gets a solid amount).

 

[sessiroth]

I know it's early, but man is our last years draft looking promising. The kind that could turn a franchise around

What pops in my mind are

BOSTON 2007 kessel/lucic/marchand

COLORADO 2009 duchene/oreilly/barrie

 

[HockeyAndWings]

With the right people, it's just amazing how our draft fortunes have changed in one year.

Even going back to the 2014 draft, Nylander was a great selection by Bergman at 8th, I can only imagine how the draft would turn out in hindsight, if someone like Bergman or someone who is a good predictor of talent evaluation ended up making all the selections in the draft.

 

[Trapper]

No one is ever getting datsyuk and zetterberg in the late rounds ever again. Scouting is far more improved from those days. Same with Lidström in the third.

I'd say Jamie Benn (a 5th round pick in 07) is one many scouts missed in recent memory.

 

[King Mapes]

We actually have 2 top tier prospects. We rarely have one

 

[Gabriel426]

I'd say Jamie Benn (a 5th round pick in 07) is one many scouts missed in recent memory.

That's the guy I think scouts missed. Since you can argue that Johhny hockey, Triplets and others are rather small, but Benn is a big boy and got some good numbers.

 

[Semantics]

We actually have 2 top tier prospects. We rarely have one

I still have to pinch myself sometimes. Two legit blue chip #1 line prospects, who have continued to meet and exceed expectations after the draft. Can't remember the last time we had that. To say nothing of the supporting cast.

 

[-DeMo-]

I will never understand why people believe one person is responsible for something the team does. it's never one person, everything is done as a team. for example I know for a fact Dubas was out scouting players last year I seen him at the Colts/Frontenacs game. probably looking at Crouse, and I would also hazard a guess that he went out and seen all the top prospects, and then gave his input into them. just the same as I'm sure when UFA's or trades are discussed I'm sure Hunter is apart of that aswell. Management is a team, nothing is done by a single individual.

 

[Damisoph]

edit - unnecessary

 

[LV*]

Mac-Grab-Kulemin left for 0 assets

Nonis was pretty bad with asset management too.

He could have kept Komisarek for 1 year, compliance buy out Liles and boom problem solved.

Instead he complianced Komisarek, kept Liles, traded Liles for Gleason and bought out Gleason. Gleason was a more expensive buy out then Liles would have been.

Also trading a better defenseman in Gunnarsson for Polak, and including a 4th + salary retention.

Didn't Burke say he was offered 3 first rd picks for Grabo, Kule and Mac?

 

[LV*]

What pops in my mind are

BOSTON 2007 kessel/lucic/marchand

COLORADO 2009 duchene/oreilly/barrie

Montreal 2007 McDonagh/Pacioretty/Subban

2 #1 dmen + a first line winger with their first 3 picks.

 

[Terrible GM]

Unfortunately when Burke traded the picks for Kessel it forced him into a win now mode and that's why he didn't trade Mac/Grabo among others . He was too consumed with trying not to weaken the team short term instead of building for the future .

Anyway thankfully he's gone and the new boys in charge seem to have us on the right path , damn it feels good to finally have a few studs to look forward too .

No, that trade did not force him into a new mode. JFJr. has been on the record about the MLSE board not allowing him to do a rebuild, and then Burke comes in and says they are going to re-tool.

It has always been the board driving the GM's in these major changes. Trading UFA assets to picks was not part of that plan. Yes the new boys got it right, but only because they could convince the board on the direction, which Burke could not do, and was his biggest failing.

 

[hotpaws]

No, that trade did not force him into a new mode. JFJr. has been on the record about the MLSE board not allowing him to do a rebuild, and then Burke comes in and says they are going to re-tool.

It has always been the board driving the GM's in these major changes. Trading UFA assets to picks was not part of that plan. Yes the new boys got it right, but only because they could convince the board on the direction, which Burke could not do, and was his biggest failing.

JFJ took over a 100 pt team and only after he drove it into the toilet did he ask to do a full rebuild which he was denied . People seem to always remember him asking but never for some reason remember the timing of the request .

Burke was gainfully employed and would never have come if he didn't have full control . No one one put a gun to his head to trade the picks and no one was pulling the strings on his moves .

 

[ponder]

No one is ever getting datsyuk and zetterberg in the late rounds ever again. Scouting is far more improved from those days. Same with Lidström in the third.

Looking just at the 2005-2011 drafts, we've seen a few superstars, and TONNES of very good players go outside of the first round, including:

• Jamie Benn (in the conversation for top forward in the league)
• PK Subban (in the conversation for top dman in the league)
• Jonathan Quick (often in the conversation for top goalie in the league)
• Gaudreau
• ROR
• Josi
• Faulk
• Klingberg
• Hamonic
• Yandle
• Vlasic
• Stralman
• Holtby
• Bobrovsky
• Neuvirth
• Martin Jones (undrafted)
• Toffoli
• Stepan
• Kucherov
• Tyler Johnson (undrafted)
• Palat
• James Neal
• Mark Stone
• TJ Brodie
• Nyqvist
• Lucic
• Marchand
• Voynov
• Henrique
• Barrie
• Tatar
• Gallagher
• Jenner
• Jurco
• Jaskin
• John Gibson
• Helm
• Hornqvist (last pick in the draft)
• etc.

We'll continue to see lots from the more recent drafts, too, as they get older. There's plenty of talent to be had outside the first round, you just need a combination of great scouting and some luck to snag it. Look at the Dallas Stars, currently tied for 1st in the league, and their top forward (Benn) and top dman (Klingberg) were both later round picks. Their other mega star, Seguin, was a very high pick, but they got him in a trade where the two main pieces going back were guys they picked in the 2nd and 3rd rounds (Loui Eriksson and Reilly Smith).

Obviously the first round has the main concentration of talent, but scouting is far from perfect, there's still tonnes of talent to be had in the later rounds if you draft well.

 

[Stats01]

Hunter's doing the scouting , building the scouting department from the ground up and made the decisions on who to draft , all Dubas seems to be doing is some PR work .

Dubas runs the Marlies, he's done a great job with that team. As was said when we first hired Dubas, he's a GM in the making, he's running the AHL team, he has a hand in the draft although Hunter has a lot of responsibility there. Dubas is doing a lot more than just "some PR work" From what it looks like Dubas will be Lou's successor in a few years.

 

[ponder]

What pops in my mind are

BOSTON 2007 kessel/lucic/marchand

COLORADO 2009 duchene/oreilly/barrie

The Habs first 3 picks in 2007 were McDonagh, Pacioretty and Subban. Obviously their GM later screwed up trading McDonagh for garbage, but that's not the scouts fault, and it was still a franchise changing draft with Patches and Subban.