Mighty turnaround for Toronto Maple Leafs prospects pool

[Stats01]

Looking just at the 2006-2011 drafts, we've seen a few superstars, and TONNES of very good players go outside of the first round, including:

• Jamie Benn (in the conversation for top forward in the league)
• PK Subban (in the conversation for top dman in the league)
• Gaudreau
• ROR
• Josi
• Faulk
• Klingberg
• Hamonic
• Toffoli
• Stepan
• Kucherov
• Tyler Johnson (undrafted)
• Palat
• Mark Stone
• TJ Brodie
• Nyqvist
• Lucic
• Marchand
• Voynov
• Henrique
• Barrie
• Tatar
• Gallagher
• Jenner
• Jurco
• Jaskin
• John Gibson
• etc.

We'll continue to see lots from the more recent drafts, too, as they get older. There's plenty of talent to be had outside the first round, you just need a combination of great scouting and some luck to snag it. Look at the Dallas Stars, currently tied for 1st in the league, and their top forward (Benn) and top dman (Klingberg) were both later round picks. Their other mega star, Seguin, was a very high pick, but they got him in a trade where the two main pieces going back were guys they picked in the 2nd and 3rd rounds (Loui Eriksson and Reilly Smith).

Obviously the first round has the main concentration of talent, but scouting is far from perfect, there's still tonnes of talent to be had in the later rounds if you draft well.

2nd round picks are almost as important as 1st round picks. Trading our 2nd rounder was almost an annual thing for Nonis, just incredible how bad he run this organization. Just look at our most recent 2nd round picks, one is trying to make TC at the WJHC and the other is putting up more than a PPG with Kitchener. Just keep the picks and select the BPA and we will be fine.

 

[ponder]

2nd round picks are almost as important as 1st round picks. Trading our 2nd rounder was almost an annual thing for Nonis, just incredible how bad he run this organization. Just look at our most recent 2nd round picks, one is trying to make TC at the WJHC and the other is putting up more than a PPG with Kitchener. Just keep the picks and select the BPA and we will be fine.

Agreed, though the comment thread I was replying to was very specifically discussing 1st rounders:

wow shocking how actually keeping your first round picks and drafting skill over potential 4th liners with your other picks drastically improves a prospect pool

First rounders aren't required to do that. Check out how many first round picks Detroit has traded away over the last 25 years.

No one is ever getting datsyuk and zetterberg in the late rounds ever again. Scouting is far more improved from those days. Same with Lidström in the third.

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas runs the Marlies, he's done a great job with that team. As was said when we first hired Dubas, he's a GM in the making, he's running the AHL team, he has a hand in the draft although Hunter has a lot of responsibility there. Dubas is doing a lot more than just "some PR work" From what it looks like Dubas will be Lou's successor in a few years.

are you sure Hunter who's main responsibility is handling the entire scouting department had a lot of responsibility in the draft ? I bet Shanny and a number and our other mgmt also scouted some games and had some input as well but why do they never get mentioned ?

I've never understood the love affair with pimping mgmt before they've accomplished a damn thing , first it was Burke and now Dubas even though neither had/have any success to date .

Dubas may very well be our next GM but it could just as easily be Hunter who has a much longer and much much much more successful jr career than Dubie or it could be neither since Shanny already decided the current guys weren't up to the task at this time and that's why he brought in LL to run the show .

 

[meefer]

I'll reserve judgement on how good our draft history the last two years has been after I see how the Leafs improve when those drafted are added to the roster. Until then, the potential is exciting, but unproven.

As to the discussion regarding Hunter or Dubas and who is responsible for this improvement in potential, I can only shake my head. Anyone who thinks that one person alone is the sole reason for this success is delusional. Scouting departments, analytic departments, management throughout the organization sift through as much data as they can, mesh that with what they see, discuss needs/priorities/potentials and review and re-assess on a regular basis. Sure, there's a heirachy, but this ain't a one man show, jeez.

 

[hotpaws]

I'll reserve judgement on how good our draft history the last two years has been after I see how the Leafs improve when those drafted are added to the roster. Until then, the potential is exciting, but unproven.

As to the discussion regarding Hunter or Dubas and who is responsible for this improvement in potential, I can only shake my head. Anyone who thinks that one person alone is the sole reason for this success is delusional. Scouting departments, analytic departments, management throughout the organization sift through as much data as they can, mesh that with what they see, discuss needs/priorities/potentials and review and re-assess on a regular basis. Sure, there's a heirachy, but this ain't a one man show, jeez.

I have never said it was one person responsible for the draft , I said Hunter is responsible for the final decisions on who to draft after reviewing all available information.

I've also said that many people including Dubas may have given there input but who's to say they were even in favor of drafting the prospects we did? Some are acting that there was a 100% concensus and heaping praise for picks Dubas may not have been even in favor of making.

Dubas, may have been in favor of drafting Hannifin,or even trading down a few spots which may turn out to have been the correct way to go and I'll guarantee you the people praising him now will not say a bad word about him and this draft if these prospects fizzle.

 

[sessiroth]

2nd round picks are almost as important as 1st round picks. Trading our 2nd rounder was almost an annual thing for Nonis, just incredible how bad he run this organization. Just look at our most recent 2nd round picks, one is trying to make TC at the WJHC and the other is putting up more than a PPG with Kitchener. Just keep the picks and select the BPA and we will be fine.

Trading our 1st was JFJ and Burkes trademark and the new regime has giving up a couple of thirds.

Slow progress but I dont like trading picks in the top 4 rounds.

 

[The Legend]

Maricin also had good analytics didn't he and how were Arcobello's-Mathias-Boyes analytics among others ? I guess now the most important aspect of scouting a player now is shots f/a , who knew . I have no idea why we even send scouts into the arena anymore .

also if this was true why are we wasting time developing a Brock sports mgmt grad ? shouldn't we be targeting the top math grad from Waterloo who'd be head and shoulders better at crunching the numbers and finding players based on this new analytics craze?

Ah yes, the "new analytics craze", as if hockey is the only aspect of the world that tries to use mathematics and logic-based analytics to make better informed decisions.

Wasn't Winnik a Dubas recommended signing last year?

 

[hotpaws]

Ah yes, the "new analytics craze", as if hockey is the only aspect of the world that tries to use mathematics and logic-based analytics to make better informed decisions.

Wasn't Winnik a Dubas recommended signing last year?

do other "aspects of the world" not make sure there math based analysis is proven before accepting it's analysis as useful ?

and why not simply track actual possession if that's the end goal instead of trying to come up with other means to try to accurately track possession , i don't see the NFL ignoring actual possession in favor of some formula of running/passing plays to track possession

 

[Razz]

Dubas is the GM for the Marlies. Last time I checked they had an 800 winning percentage and are a legit Calder favourite at this point. He's doing a fabulous job especially considering this Marlies team is filled with actual prospects and few AHL journeymen.

Anyone who asks what has he done so far hasn't been paying attention.

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas is the GM for the Marlies. Last time I checked they had an 800 winning percentage and are a legit Calder favourite at this point. He's doing a fabulous job especially considering this Marlies team is filled with actual prospects and few AHL journeymen.

Anyone who asks what has he done so far hasn't been paying attention.

This past draft was the first one while he was employed with the Leafs but what the hell lets give Dubas credit for Nylander and the rest of the kids down there anyway .

 

[Razz]

This past draft was the first one while he was employed with the Leafs but what the hell lets give Dubas credit for Nylander and the rest of the kids down there anyway .

Umm who said anything about Nylander? Dubas helped bring in a lot of key pieces to that team including the coach. The team has many players drafted by the previous regime but there is no arguing the team is much better since Dubas arrived and is a very well managed team.

Facts are facts, the team is far better since Dubas took over. Am I incorrect in this?

 

[hotpaws]

Umm who said anything about Nylander? Dubas helped bring in a lot of key pieces to that team including the coach. The team has many players drafted by the previous regime but there is no arguing the team is much better since Dubas arrived and is a very well managed team.

Facts are facts, the team is far better since Dubas took over. Am I incorrect in this?

I've given credit to Dubas for recommending Keefe but why is he being given all the credit for everything that happens on the farm when most of the players have nothing to do with him ? Also why are you saying no one else has any input on that team when some of other posters are also giving him credit for our most recent draft when Hunter is in charge of scouting ?

Dubas according to some posters is responsible for running the entire organization from scouting prospects world wide , to negotiating deals , to running the Marlies and the analytics dept to pro scouting , not to mention negotiating contracts . Damn i have no idea when this guy has time to sleep .

The funny thing is i've been following this game for decades and i've never seen an ass't GM get this much attention/praise in my entire life . it's quite shocking to be honest .

 

[meefer]

I have never said it was one person responsible for the draft , I said Hunter is responsible for the final decisions on who to draft after reviewing all available information.

I've also said that many people including Dubas may have given there input but who's to say they were even in favor of drafting the prospects we did? Some are acting that there was a 100% concensus and heaping praise for picks Dubas may not have been even in favor of making.

Dubas, may have been in favor of drafting Hannifin,or even trading down a few spots which may turn out to have been the correct way to go and I'll guarantee you the people praising him now will not say a bad word about him and this draft if these prospects fizzle.

To the bolded, I never said you did. And yes, Hunter may well have had the last say. As to the rest, you may be correct. But, you present conjecture to bolster your belief in Hunter, not fact. As to people here not saying a bad word about Dubas if these prospects fizzle, hahahahaha. Here??? Really???? We live to *****

 

[Gabriel426]

I just hope Hunter and company will continue to draft and develop talents. It is the only way for the Leafs to have long term success.