Series Talk: MDSF: (3) Penguins vs. (2) Islanders - Part II

[Honour Over Glory]

I think you're overrating this team if you think it's like 2013 tbh, although a part of that is due to the Penguins having an incredibly easy path to the ECF in 2013. I can't see the Penguins getting anywhere significant in the playoffs this year. The 2013 team also had Vokoun pulling rabbits out of his ass, I don't think Murray this year will likely do that.

This team does remind me of the 2014 team if the Penguins were playing the Rangers in the 1st round, though.

Yeah good call on the Rangers in 2014.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Isolating on one occasion where he got beaten by Kuhnhackl is also ignoring the other 59 minutes of the game where we are exiting our zone cleaner because we have Maatta on the ice rather than JJ.

You sure about that? How about the 3rd goal, when Maatta iced it to no one, then proceeded to get schooled trying to make a fancy play corralling a rebound, leading to a turnover and a goal?

Or the 1st line's general ineptitude, which had as much to do with the forwards as it did the fact that they were with Maatta's pairing for the majority of even strength, stuck in their own zone because they were unable to get the puck.

Regular season metrics, compiled against a whole slew of different teams with different styles, are irrelevant now. We're playing a fast, hard forechecking team night and night, which is the worst possible match-up for Maatta.

 

[Pancakes]

I honestly don't know what game people are watching if they're saying things like Maatta has better stickwork than Johnson or Johnson is just as slow as Maatta is. There are 3 major criticisms with Johnson: he's an incredibly dumb player, he's a bad puck mover and he's a non-existent threat offensively. Anything beyond those 3 are just making stuff up to complain about him. His 1 on 1 work is downright fantastic, because of his strength, how strong he is along the boards and his stickwork. If Maatta had as good of stickwork as Johnson, he wouldn't get dangled by players like Kuhnhackl.

I don't know what 82 games people were watching if they want any part of one of the absolute worst players in the NHL entering a playoff lineup.

but to each their own I suppose.

 

[Andy99]

The frustrating thing about Sullivan taking Johnson out of the lineup for Maatta is that Sullivan probably won't scratch Maatta unless he sucks for numerous games in a row. People can argue that it was the right or wrong decision to make the move for game 1, but I don't criticize Sullivan for making the move regardless. It was an educated move that didn't pay off like you hoped it would, I don't criticize Sullivan for playing his best players. I will, however, criticize the **** out of him if he keeps Maatta in after the performance he put up last night. It's inexcusable to play Maatta in game 2 after the way he played in game 1.

The way Johnson is talking makes me think that he's thinking that he won't be back in for a while, which is absolutely laughable after the performance Maatta had.

Maatta definitely played poorly last night, but why don't you ask Schultz who he would rather play with? It's not coincidental that the first game Schultz looked good all year was without JJ on his pair...

 

[Pancakes]

Regular season metrics, compiled against a whole slew of different teams with different styles, are irrelevant now. We're playing a fast, hard forechecking team night and night, which is the worst possible match-up for Maatta.

Most teams play a fast hard forechecking style now. The Isles are not unique in that regard. If Maatta were incapable of playing against that kind of team, his numbers would be substantially worse than JJ's. They aren't.

This is the problem with relying solely on the eye test. People see situations where Maatta looks really bad and that just forms their opinion which becomes unshakeable. But they forget the numerous other points in the game where he's in better position defensively than JJ would have been, where he's moving the puck better than JJ would have, etc.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I thought our zone exits were awful all night long.

Maatta was garbage, but JJ will also be garbage. I'm fairly certain of that. It's just up to whether you want Maatta's complete inability to skate at an NHL level on your blueline, or JJ's complete inability to think at an NHL level on your blueline.

Fun stuff. Enjoy that one, Sully.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Most teams play a fast hard forechecking style now. The Isles are not unique in that regard

They're the best systematic team in the league, I don't see how that's debatable.

My opinion is very much shakeable, as are many others'. Gudbranson has been good, when I and everyone else was ready to jump on him for sucking and looking for opportunities to do so.

I hated Johnson for a while, then he played much better, then he became mediocre again, but Maatta was a new level of bad last night. You gotta have a quick trigger finger in the playoffs as a coach.

 

[Andy99]

After digesting last night's game it's hard to see the team making a deep run. No switch was flipped. They played just like they have for the last month or so. That's probably not good enough to make it much past the first round. Maatta had a bad game, but so did Crosby. They won't make it past the first round if he doesn't play better than that.

Yeah, even if they manage to get past the Isles, it's over in round two...we're in the downslope of the Sid-G years already, unfortunately....we haven't been able to consistently sustain excellence in play since the 2017 Cup...that's the beginning of the end...

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

The biggest reason why Pittsburgh is so damn hard to play against in the playoffs is that the coaching staff makes adjustments that are hard to keep up with. I admittedly haven't followed the Pens all that much this year – is that still the case? Or at least, the hope?

At this point, it is the hope

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Yeah, even if they manage to get past the Isles, it's over in round two...we're in the downslope of the Sid-G years already, unfortunately....we haven't been able to consistently sustain excellence in play since the 2017 Cup...that's the beginning of the end...

Oh jeez. Same shit was said before they rattled off back-to-back cup wins, and you then site a sample size of.... one playoffs?

If Pens advance, I could see them owning that Caps as much as I could see them losing to the Canes. Matchups are so underrated come playoff time.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think you're overrating this team if you think it's like 2013 tbh, although a part of that is due to the Penguins having an incredibly easy path to the ECF in 2013. I can't see the Penguins getting anywhere significant in the playoffs this year. The 2013 team also had Vokoun pulling rabbits out of his ass, I don't think Murray this year will likely do that.

This team does remind me of the 2014 team if the Penguins were playing the Rangers in the 1st round, though. A struggling Crosby, a shaky Fleury, defensive miscues due to a struggling Letang and Martin, depth that isn't productive....I can see it.

You literally were saying a week ago we were great lol.

 

[Pancakes]

They're the best systematic team in the league, I don't see how that's debatable.

My opinion is very much shakeable, as are many others'. Gudbranson has been good, when I and everyone else was ready to jump on him for sucking and looking for opportunities to do so.

I hated Johnson for a while, then he played much better, then he became mediocre again, but Maatta was a new level of bad last night. You gotta have a quick trigger finger in the playoffs as a coach.

That's fine. I'm getting carried away with my opinion here anyways. @Empoleon8771 @KIRK you guys may be right. Who knows. I don't want to get too adversarial here. I respect everyone's opinion, even if I'm sometimes fiery about my own. We're all pulling for the same thing here.

I don't even hate JJ. If he plays, I'll root for him to do well. I'm not one of those who gets mad when someone I don't want to play starts playing.

 

[SEALBound]

So we all agree Maatta is GTG for Game 2?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Jesus. It's like we drained all the logic out of the tank and we're just running this ship on empty come playoff time, huh?

This place is nuts. It's like the antithesis of reddit and facebook where everything is brainlessly optimistic, whereas this place is brainlessly pessimistic.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I honestly don't know what game people are watching if they're saying things like Maatta has better stickwork than Johnson or Johnson is just as slow as Maatta is. There are 3 major criticisms with Johnson: he's an incredibly dumb player, he's a bad puck mover and he's a non-existent threat offensively. Anything beyond those 3 are just making stuff up to complain about him. His 1 on 1 work is downright fantastic, because of his strength, how strong he is along the boards and his stickwork. If Maatta had as good of stickwork as Johnson, he wouldn't get dangled by players like Kuhnhackl.

I don't even think JJ is bad offensively, I just think he's abandoned that part of his game with us. Not sure why. One of the things I remember about Jack when he was with the Kings and even the Jackets, was that he could put up points and was a guy you can count on for 35-40pts. The last few years he seemed to sort of prioritize being more of a defensive defenseman, albeit not a good one, but the guy is capable of far more than he's let on.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

This place is nuts. It's like the antithesis of reddit and facebook where everything is brainlessly optimistic, whereas this place is brainlessly pessimistic.

If we win tomorrow, we're winning the cup.

In all seriousness though, line-ups and line combos are the most easy/fun to debate about because they're the most basic to understand, in the sense of "take X out and put it with Y / combine these pieces differently to get the desired result." Everybody gets to play human chemist, and it's a lot easier than making a systemic evaluation and suggesting nuanced-adjustments to neutral zone schemes, etc.

Also, who goes online to be perfectly level-headed? This is what the internet is for, man!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If we win tomorrow, we're winning the cup.

In all seriousness though, line-ups and line combos are the most easy/fun to debate about because they're the most basic to understand, in the sense of "take X out and put it with Y / combine these pieces differently to get the desired result." Everybody gets to play human chemist, and it's a lot easier than making a systemic evaluation and suggesting nuanced-adjustments to neutral zone schemes, etc.

Also, who goes online to be perfectly level-headed? This is what the internet is for, man!

I was more referring to the Andy99 post where Sid and Geno are suddenly over the hill (Sid scored his 100th point of the season like a week ago, haha) and this is the beginning of the end.

It's been one game against an evenly matched opponent which we took to OT, in their building, with a myriad of things going wrong for us.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I haven't seen anybody bash JJ in months but now he will be horrible if he plays??

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I was more referring to the Andy99 post where Sid and Geno are suddenly over the hill (Sid scored his 100th point of the season like a week ago, haha) and this is the beginning of the end.

Yeah, that was pretty egregious.

 

[Gurglesons]

I haven't seen anybody bash JJ in months but now he will be horrible if he plays??

 

[Ryder71]

Riikola will save us.

I almost forgot about him and truthfully I'd consider him over either JJ or OM. TBH There isn't a good choice there.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Don't make me dig up post. You have been praising JJ for months and now you are acting like it's the end of the world if he plays over Maatta.

 

[Gurglesons]

Don't make me dig up post. You have been praising JJ for months and now you are acting like it's the end of the world if he plays over Maatta.

No I haven’t..

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I just can't accept that this coaching staff thinks the roster is fine the way it is for Game 2 as well. They're unwilling to put the right guys together to win, dress the right guys to take advantage of what we have, and so forth.

It's just nuts to me. There's a very vocal group and in numbers, that saw what we saw. Yet some how, it's like that entire coaching staff saw an entirely f***ing different game.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No I haven’t..

Listen, I hated the JJ signing and tried to be positive about it, then was overwhelmingly negative af about it because his play justified and warranted that response. He was terrible with virtually everyone except Schultz before he got hurt and that was because Justin Schultz was doing lords work carrying his ass. Then we got Pettersson and both did well together for a stretch, but when we got Gudbranson, JJ really started to turn his game around and was less of a nightmare, still a brutal defensemen at times, but his game started to simplify and he stopped making the mistakes that drove us nuts, on a frequent basis.

His bad shit got inconsistent - which was good.

But the weirdest thing is to go from using him all season, literally all f***ing season, and then inserting a slower moving defenseman that has been exploited for his decision making skills in his own end, lack of foot speed, and untimely pinches against an Islanders team that preys on that kind of player. It's like someone sent Sullivan a prank scouting report on Olli Maatta while ignoring everything he's seen and decided he was the right choice.