Matthews vs Scheifele

[kylbaz]

i love the whole "hes defensively better" argument. It seems like it is always the one thing fans revert to since it is harder to tangibly measure. Not saying AM is a slouch defensively at all. But just notice that always seems to be the default argument. For the record, Scheifele had selke votes last year as well (according to hockey reference AM was 38th and MS was 30th)...

Leafs fans will do anything to tip the scales. The other poll was who was best under 25 and Scheif was included. One Leafs fan said oh yeah what about under 21!

 

[DRW204]

Leafs fans will do anything to tip the scales. The other poll was who was best under 25 and Scheif was included. One Leafs fan said oh yeah what about under 21!

I am not saying they are right or wrong. But if someone can provide stats/evidence/numbers etc that make AM (far) better than MS defensively that would hold stronger. All I saw on the last page is that AM doesn't penalty kill and received a few Selke votes last year.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

Plural literally just explained it to you. I'm not sure why it's so difficult for you to understand. Here' the post in case you missed it.

"And more importantly, using your superstar on PK is not optimal. I mean, if you're superstar also happens to be one of the rare players in your team that can PK then you don't have a choice. But if you have players who usually carry around 7-12 minutes a night then it's better to use them on the PK (assuming they're capable) and save the energy of the stars to more proficient scoring situations.

Matthews defensive play is getting tad overrated but his lack of PK is not the reason for it."

It makes no sense to waste your best players minutes on the pk if you have other players who can fill that role.

in other words hes not even the best defensive player on his team, lets stop beating around the bush here

 

[cc]

If asking about the here and now, I would say Scheifele

 

[PhilJets]

Schiefele

He is also getting better.

 

[nobody]

HF jinx at its finest. Scheifele production fell off after this thread. My fantasy team suffered.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

big time jinx!!!

 

[MidWestJet]

HF jinx at its finest. Scheifele production fell off after this thread. My fantasy team suffered.

No he got injured and is out 6-8 weeks now, that why your teams suffering

 

[tntkid]

Scheifele has not played since December 27th because of an upper body injury.

Scheifele out 6-8 weeks for Jets with upper-body injury

 

[olli]

No he got injured and is out 6-8 weeks now, that why your teams suffering

He also had 4 points on 11 games prior to getting injured.

 

[Arizonan God]

I’ll take the guy who is 4 years younger, producing at the same PPG rate and higher GPG rate with inferior line mates.

 

[ole ole]

All you do is talk about Toronto fans this, Toronto fans that when it's been proven on here already the vast majority of neutral fans think Matthews is better than your boy. You are a broken record who clearly has a hate for Matthews and Toronto.

I don't have a horse in this race but i think you have something wrong here. You may be right on that poster having a hate on for Matthews but you sure as hell are wrong in thinking the vast majority of neutral fans think Matthews is better . Don't believe me just check the poll. Twice as many votes for the other guy.

 

[leafsfan1234]

I guess this is why you don't evaluate players 2 months into the season. Matthews is much better.

 

[ole ole]

I don't have a horse in this race but i think you have something wrong here. You may be right on that poster having a hate on for Matthews but you sure as hell are wrong in thinking the vast majority of neutral fans think Matthews is better . Don't believe me just check the poll. Twice as many votes for the other guy.

I guess this is why you don't evaluate players 2 months into the season. Matthews is much better.

How do you figure that?

 

[nowhereman]

That's just a primitive way of looking at it though.

Look at their ice time differences for starters.

Matthews is number 1 in the entire league in high danger scoring chances generated, despite missing 4 games. Do you know who number 2 is? Zach Hyman, that's how unbelievable Matthews has been this year.

Matthews is playing like a generational talent this year, and he's been fantastic defensively. The guy has a crazy +42 high danger scoring chances for/against as well. This is all 5 on 5.

Would all of you Leafs fans just quit it with this "generational" nonesense? There is nothing generational about Matthews other than his hype. He is an absolutely tremendous player and that's where it ends. Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Crosby, OV, etc. Those are generational players, guys so dominant they don't need excuses. They're at the top of the scoring race, year after year, from the moment they enter the league.

Many people consider Crosby a generational talent but he's not as clearcut as guys like Gretzky and Lemieux. If Sid/OV is the cutoff for generational players, just take a look at what they accomplished in their first few years. Sid put up 120 points and won every major award in only his second season, while OV put up 65 goals and repeated by taking home every major award. Has Matthews done that? Does it look like he's trending toward doing that? Guys like Boeser and Barzal are putting up similar, if not better rookie seasons than what Matthews did last year. Yes, they are a year older but my point still stands, since one year in age/development should be negligible for a "generational" player. Crosby had over 100 points when he was 18. THAT'S generational.

Generational players are the best players of all time, the best the sport has ever seen. Can Leafs fans, with a straight face, actually say that about Matthews?

 

[authentic]

I guess this is why you don't evaluate players 2 months into the season. Matthews is much better.

Lol, but Scheifele is such a hard working and dedicated player. Lol.

 

[authentic]

Would all of you Leafs fans just quit it with this "generational" nonesense? There is nothing generational about Matthews other than his hype. He is an absolutely tremendous player and that's where it ends. Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Crosby, OV, etc. Those are generational players, guys so dominant they don't need excuses. They're at the top of the scoring race, year after year, from the moment they enter the league.

Many people consider Crosby a generational talent but he's not as clearcut as guys like Gretzky and Lemieux. If Sid/OV is the cutoff for generational players, just take a look at what they accomplished in their first few years. Sid put up 120 points and won every major award in only his second season, while OV put up 65 goals and repeated by taking home every major award. Has Matthews done that? Does it look like he's trending toward doing that? Guys like Boeser and Barzal are putting up similar, if not better rookie seasons than what Matthews did last year. Yes, they are a year older but my point still stands, since one year in age/development should be negligible for a "generational" player. Crosby had over 100 points when he was 18. THAT'S generational.

Generational players are the best players of all time, the best the sport has ever seen. Can Leafs fans, with a straight face, actually say that about Matthews?

Yeah, nothing generational about him except his goal scoring and even strength dominance.

 

[nowhereman]

Yeah, nothing generational about him except his goal scoring and even strength dominance.

Being on a 45 goal pace is generational these days? I guess that makes Boeser generational too, I suppose? Hell, Anders Lee has a higher GPG than Matthews does.

Great player, yes, but stop clutching at the "generational" title. It's delusional.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Matthews

 

[Saidin]

Hahaha oh look the generational talk. #LeafsLogic

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

	March Schieffle	Auston Matthews
Age	24 (25 in March)	20 (21 in Sept)
Size	6'3" 207 lbs	6'3" 216 lbs
Draft	7th OA 2011	1st OA 2016
Career Pts	265 Pts in 344 Games	101 Pts in 114 Games
Career PPG	0.77	0.89
17/18 Pts	32 Pts in 32 Games	38 Pts in 38 Games
17/18 PPG	1.00	1.00
Linemates	Wheeler & Connor/Ehlers	Hyman & Nylander
Career Takeaways	242 (0.70/GP)	108 (0.95/GP)
Career Giveaways	166 (0.48/GP)	66 (0.58/GP)
FO% This Year	52.3%	53.7%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So Matthews is almost 4.5 years younger, bigger, has more PPG in his young career, Carried a line with two rookies last season, and still has Zach Hyman on his wing this season putting up a point per game, just like Schieffle and Yet people beleve Schieffle is MUCH BETTER?!?! Someone please Explain.

Dont get me wrong, Schieffle is great, and any team would love to have him buy im sick of the Daily _____ vs Matthews polls. If the guy played for any team other than the leafs, he would be viewed as a much better player.​

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I’ll take the guy who is 4 years younger, producing at the same PPG rate and higher GPG rate with inferior line mates.

Agreed
Matthews plays with scrubs while Scheifele has good linemates.
It's not really a fair poll.

 

[brock0791]

All you do is talk about Toronto fans this, Toronto fans that when it's been proven on here already the vast majority of neutral fans think Matthews is better than your boy. You are a broken record who clearly has a hate for Matthews and Toronto.

	March Schieffle	Auston Matthews
Age	24 (25 in March)	20 (21 in Sept)
Size	6'3" 207 lbs	6'3" 216 lbs
Draft	7th OA 2011	1st OA 2016
Career Pts	265 Pts in 344 Games	101 Pts in 114 Games
Career PPG	0.77	0.89
17/18 Pts	32 Pts in 32 Games	38 Pts in 38 Games
17/18 PPG	1.00	1.00
Linemates	Wheeler & Connor/Ehlers	Hyman & Nylander
Career Takeaways	242 (0.70/GP)	108 (0.95/GP)
Career Giveaways	166 (0.48/GP)	66 (0.58/GP)
FO% This Year	52.3%	53.7%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So Matthews is almost 4.5 years younger, bigger, has more PPG in his young career, Carried a line with two rookies last season, and still has Zach Hyman on his wing this season putting up a point per game, just like Schieffle and Yet people beleve Schieffle is MUCH BETTER?!?! Someone please Explain.

Dont get me wrong, Schieffle is great, and any team would love to have him buy im sick of the Daily _____ vs Matthews polls. If the guy played for any team other than the leafs, he would be viewed as a much better player.​

In a poll about who is better right now going back further than 100 games on the Sheifele column is irrelevant

 

[Willy Styles]

Yeah guys its just NHL coaches and media experts that called him generational.

If they were HF posters i'd take them more seriously.

 

[Harhis]

Yeah guys its just NHL coaches and media experts that called him generational.

If they were HF posters i'd take them more seriously.

How about we first see some results generational players put up? Like a season with atleast ppg? I see nothing generational in 69 points.