Speculation: Mathew Barzal Contract Discussion

[Uncle Duke]

And you know how he came to that decision? What the contract comparables were for his contract? But of course, he resigned himself to failure in the UFA so, of course, was elated to find Lou tossing out an overpayment money, so he decided to stay.

I think that's right. In fact, though I don't want to put words in your mouth, haven't you opined on more than one occasion that Lou has to overpay to keep players here?

 

[Throttle]

I think that's right. In fact, though I don't want to put words in your mouth, haven't you opined on more than one occasion that Lou has to overpay to keep players here?

Sure, did I say they overpaid Eberle? We know... a downtrodden franchise, with minimal attendance, yearly lotto fever, Snow/Weight/Cappy trio, and two arenas just magically pays the going rate for unrestricted free agents and also is an attractive place for players to sign. No worries, the Isles will spend another decade (hey, why not another one?) building through the draft, paying their cost controlled players, and when making trades, always getting the better of the deal, and never trading first round picks... AZ and Florida (oops Miami) say hi.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Sure, did I say they overpaid Eberle? We know... a downtrodden franchise, with minimal attendance, yearly lotto fever, Snow/Weight/Cappy trio, and two arenas just magically pays the going rate for unrestricted free agents and also is an attractive place for players to sign. No worries, the Isles will spend another decade (hey, why not another one?) building through the draft, paying their cost controlled players, and when making trades, always getting the better of the deal, and never trading first round picks... AZ and Florida (oops Miami) say hi.

I understand your reasoning and accept that it may even be true. But as I have said before, if it is true, as far as I am concerned it is a guaranteed recipe for long term mediocrity and is yet one more reason this team should build through the draft and not try to buy our way to a Cup.

No need to keep rehashing it. You won't convince me and I won't convince you. Let's just both agree that we want the Isles to win however that can be achieved.

 

[periferal]

Depressing as it's gonna be ,I have pretty much accepted giving up a high pick to Seattle.All three of the isles impending rfas- Sorokin, Pelech and Beau are too important to see them dumped for magic beans like Toews was.

Not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing. There shouldn't be an issue with us protecting who we need to in the Seattle draft without trading them a good asset for them to take someone specific. You simply take the 7/3/1 option and protect...

• Barzal
• Beauvillier
• Nelson
• Lee
• Pageau
• Bailey
• Eberle (you could even expose him if you want to dangle a 5M cap hit hoping Seattle takes him)

• Pelech
• Pulock
• Leddy (I can see people wanting Mayfield here, but he was a trainwreck in the playoffs and people need to stop overrating a player because his cap his is low. Leddy is much better and we should try to either trade him or resign him as in 22-23 we will have many holes on D. Obviously if we trade Leddy prior and don't pick up a better D Mayfield will slide in here).

• Varlamov

Dobson/Sorokin are exempt so then Seattle would be choosing from:

• Ladd
• Komarov
• Clutterbuck
• Martin
• Johnston
• Dal Colle
• Cizikas
• Hickey
• Mayfield
• Schneider

I'm very concerned about our cap situation the next 2-3 years, but not concerned at all really with the expansion draft (unles Lou f's it up).

 

[Throttle]

Not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing. There shouldn't be an issue with us protecting who we need to in the Seattle draft without trading them a good asset for them to take someone specific. You simply take the 7/3/1 option and protect...

• Barzal
• Beauvillier
• Nelson
• Lee
• Pageau
• Bailey
• Eberle (you could even expose him if you want to dangle a 5M cap hit hoping Seattle takes him)

• Pelech
• Pulock
• Leddy (I can see people wanting Mayfield here, but he was a trainwreck in the playoffs and people need to stop overrating a player because his cap his is low. Leddy is much better and we should try to either trade him or resign him as in 22-23 we will have many holes on D. Obviously if we trade Leddy prior and don't pick up a better D Mayfield will slide in here).

• Varlamov

Dobson/Sorokin are exempt so then Seattle would be choosing from:

• Ladd
• Komarov
• Clutterbuck
• Martin
• Johnston
• Dal Colle
• Cizikas
• Hickey
• Mayfield
• Schneider

I'm very concerned about our cap situation the next 2-3 years, but not concerned at all really with the expansion draft (unles Lou f's it up).

Long way to go here, but depending on how Eberle performs, he may be exposed due to the poison pill cash bump on his contract for year 1 to Seattle and the Isles use that slot for someone like a Mayfield. It was negotiated into his contract for a reason and both parties agreed to it.

One has to think that if Czikas is exposed, he's probably the leading candidate to be taken.

 

[Throttle]

I understand your reasoning and accept that it may even be true. But as I have said before, if it is true, as far as I am concerned it is a guaranteed recipe for long term mediocrity and is yet one more reason this team should build through the draft and not try to buy our way to a Cup.

No need to keep rehashing it. You won't convince me and I won't convince you. Let's just both agree that we want the Isles to win however that can be achieved.

Seems like a reasonable compromise, away we go.

 

[CREW99AW]

Not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing. There shouldn't be an issue with us protecting who we need to in the Seattle draft without trading them a good asset for them to take someone specific. You simply take the 7/3/1 option and protect...

• Barzal
• Beauvillier
• Nelson
• Lee
• Pageau
• Bailey
• Eberle (you could even expose him if you want to dangle a 5M cap hit hoping Seattle takes him)

• Pelech
• Pulock
• Leddy (I can see people wanting Mayfield here, but he was a trainwreck in the playoffs and people need to stop overrating a player because his cap his is low. Leddy is much better and we should try to either trade him or resign him as in 22-23 we will have many holes on D. Obviously if we trade Leddy prior and don't pick up a better D Mayfield will slide in here).

• Varlamov

Dobson/Sorokin are exempt so then Seattle would be choosing from:

• Ladd
• Komarov
• Clutterbuck
• Martin
• Johnston
• Dal Colle
• Cizikas
• Hickey
• Mayfield
• Schneider

I'm very concerned about our cap situation the next 2-3 years, but not concerned at all really with the expansion draft (unles Lou f's it up).

Cizikas is a UFA.

Isles need Seattle to take one of their larger contracts. Does not help the isles cap crunch for Seattle to take Mayfield at $1.4m or Martin at $1.5m.

Isles need them to take Eberle's $5.5m or Bailey's $5m. Even if that means giving up a high pick.

 

[Throttle]

Cizikas is a UFA.

Isles need Seattle to take one of their larger contracts. Does not help the isles cap crunch for Seattle to take Mayfield at $1.4m or Martin at $1.5m.

Isles need them to take Eberle's $5.5m or Bailey's $5m. Even if that means giving up a high pick.

They'll glad take Bailey w/o throwing them a pick. Do you want to actually play hockey on the ice? or is everything about getting rid of players and what the cost will be? Bailey actually has value and his contract is pretty darn reasonable for most teams.

 

[CupHolders]

They'll glad take Bailey w/o throwing them a pick. Do you want to actually play hockey on the ice? or is everything about getting rid of players and what the cost will be? Bailey actually has value and his contract is pretty darn reasonable for most teams.

Can definitely see Seattle's Ron Francis being fan of Bailey.

 

[periferal]

Long way to go here, but depending on how Eberle performs, he may be exposed due to the poison pill cash bump on his contract for year 1 to Seattle and the Isles use that slot for someone like a Mayfield. It was negotiated into his contract for a reason and both parties agreed to it.

One has to think that if Czikas is exposed, he's probably the leading candidate to be taken.

If you protect 4 defnsemen then you can only protect 8 skaters overall. So if you don't protect Eberle it should probably be for another forward, but just doesn't seem to be one right now.

 

[CREW99AW]

They'll glad take Bailey w/o throwing them a pick. Do you want to actually play hockey on the ice? or is everything about getting rid of players and what the cost will be? Bailey actually has value and his contract is pretty darn reasonable for most teams.

Unlike this off-season,I want to keep all three of next off-season's key rfa. You know, not have Lou's bad contracts bite the isles on the azz, so they are forced to camp dump another quality rfa the way they did Toews.

And I already posted in this thread, that I value Beau and Bailey over Eberle,who is the one I hope Seattle takes. Even if the isles have to give up a high pick to salary dump him.

 

[JRD76]

Not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing. There shouldn't be an issue with us protecting who we need to in the Seattle draft without trading them a good asset for them to take someone specific. You simply take the 7/3/1 option and protect...

• Barzal
• Beauvillier
• Nelson
• Lee
• Pageau
• Bailey
• Eberle (you could even expose him if you want to dangle a 5M cap hit hoping Seattle takes him)

• Pelech
• Pulock
• Leddy (I can see people wanting Mayfield here, but he was a trainwreck in the playoffs and people need to stop overrating a player because his cap his is low. Leddy is much better and we should try to either trade him or resign him as in 22-23 we will have many holes on D. Obviously if we trade Leddy prior and don't pick up a better D Mayfield will slide in here).

• Varlamov

Dobson/Sorokin are exempt so then Seattle would be choosing from:

• Ladd
• Komarov
• Clutterbuck
• Martin
• Johnston
• Dal Colle
• Cizikas
• Hickey
• Mayfield
• Schneider

I'm very concerned about our cap situation the next 2-3 years, but not concerned at all really with the expansion draft (unles Lou f's it up).

A name you left off is Bellows. What if he makes the team and does real well. Do you protect him? Seattle might be interested in a young player like him.

 

[periferal]

A name you left off is Bellows. What if he makes the team and does real well. Do you protect him? Seattle might be interested in a young player like him.

Yes - I did leave Bellows off as I've basically written him off. If he surprises and looks like a keeper well that's a good problem to have.

 

[Throttle]

A name you left off is Bellows. What if he makes the team and does real well. Do you protect him? Seattle might be interested in a young player like him.

Depends on what the PED meter returns...

 

[IslesCLT]

Yes - I did leave Bellows off as I've basically written him off. If he surprises and looks like a keeper well that's a good problem to have.

Pretty glad you're not in charge

 

[ScaredStreit]

They'll glad take Bailey w/o throwing them a pick. Do you want to actually play hockey on the ice? or is everything about getting rid of players and what the cost will be? Bailey actually has value and his contract is pretty darn reasonable for most teams.

This 100%. I was harsh on Bailey for a long time, but since moving to wing he's been just fine. Not every player needs to be a 1st line all-star. Bailey is a good 2nd line player and is paid as one. Not to mention his term is fine, and he brings consistency, reliability, and loyalty to the team.

Many HF fans: boo I hate Tavares! He's so disloyal! That snake!
Same HF fans: We need to get rid of that loyal Bailey! He pledged his entire career to the team!

 

[Beacon Isles]

A name you left off is Bellows. What if he makes the team and does real well. Do you protect him? Seattle might be interested in a young player like him.

If Bellows has a good season, I might protect him and leave Eberle exposed, thinking that they possibly dont take him due to that contract. Or they do and we get cap relief. Win/win either way.

 

[MJF]

If Bellows has a good season, I might protect him and leave Eberle exposed, thinking that they possibly dont take him due to that contract. Or they do and we get cap relief. Win/win either way.

I’d leave Eberle exposed no matter what. Too streaky a player for my liking.

 

[periferal]

Pretty glad you're not in charge

Don't be to sensitive about it. You'll pardon me if I don't value "coachspeak" over actual production....Because so far Bellows has shown basically zero to suggest that he will be an NHL regular. Unlike Nelson, Bellows doesn't seem fast/strong enough against NHL (not AHL) competition to get off his good shot.

That said with our total lack of depth/scoring this year there's no question Bellows will be given a chance to prove himself. I'm hoping that his play merits actually being in the lineup nightly, and not just because he's really not good enough and there's really no other option.

 

[PWJunior]

I’d leave Eberle exposed no matter what. Too streaky a player for my liking.

When Eberle isn't scoring, he brings so little else to the table. He's essentially a Remora racking up 2nd assists simply passing it to Barzal to do something with it. Soft as hell too.

 

[13th Floor]

When Eberle isn't scoring, he brings so little else to the table. He's essentially a Remora racking up 2nd assists simply passing it to Barzal to do something with it. Soft as hell too.

I distinctly remember wanting to strangle Eberle in the playoffs last year. He single-handedly let the Flyers tie the series by missing every point blank opportunity that was fed to him. It got so bad that he was flubbing shots instead of just missing.

 

[MJF]

When Eberle isn't scoring, he brings so little else to the table. He's essentially a Remora racking up 2nd assists simply passing it to Barzal to do something with it. Soft as hell too.

Basically this. ^^^^

For the amount of money Eberle makes I’d try to move on from him. If he was making in the $4-5M range getting 2nd line minutes I’d be more likely to keep him.

 

[MJF]

I distinctly remember wanting to strangle Eberle in the playoffs last year. He single-handedly let the Flyers tie the series by missing every point blank opportunity that was fed to him. It got so bad that he was flubbing shots instead of just missing.

Agreed. Eberle didn’t score much in the playoffs. The effort was there against the Capitals and he was getting assists. But against the Flyers and Bolts you could see he was trying too hard, forcing passes and gripping his stick so tightly that he was airmailing wide open shots.

 

[PK Cronin]

Agreed. Eberle didn’t score much in the playoffs. The effort was there against the Capitals and he was getting assists. But against the Flyers and Bolts you could see he was trying too hard, forcing passes and gripping his stick so tightly that he was airmailing wide open shots.

He just isn't good enough at other things. I was just listening to Ray Ferraro talk on Spittin' Chiclets the other day and they referenced how players need really good secondary skills because if you're not on your A game, you better be bringing something else to the table. If he was good defensively or serviceable on the PK, that'd be great, but he isn't and that makes him pretty forgettable when he's not scoring.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

He just isn't good enough at other things. I was just listening to Ray Ferraro talk on Spittin' Chiclets the other day and they referenced how players need really good secondary skills because if you're not on your A game, you better be bringing something else to the table. If he was good defensively or serviceable on the PK, that'd be great, but he isn't and that makes him pretty forgettable when he's not scoring.

I'm not an Eberle fan, but I do have to admit that even though he's not effective with the "secondary game" you describe, it's not from softness or lack of effort. He's just not very good at it. Also, at this point, it may be safe to say he's not especially effective at scoring either.