Confirmed with Link: Mark Stuart signs extension: 4-years, 10.5 million (2.625 per season)

[MrBoJangelz71]

Excellent signing, in years and $$.

For those complaining that it was a year to long, or 250$ K to much per season, I say this:

We have a budding superstar in our mix in Jacob Trouba. Yesterday, Mr Trouba sent out a tweet congratulating Stuart on the contract, and expressing his happiness that he will be a Jet for the next 4 years.

We are going to want to lock Trouba up for the majority of his career. Yesterday, our management sent a message to Jacob, that this organization recognizes hard work, dedication and professionalism. Chevy offered a fair to over fair contract to a leader that Jacob looks up to.

This type of signing has value not only in the player it was linked to, but the message it sends to the dressing room, and the culture that it breeds.

Play hard, work hard, and we will make you part of this team and family. Trouba saw that yesterday. And even though money will talk when it comes contract time, yesterday Jacob has a more positive view of this team's management than he had the previous day.

You let Stuart walk, Jacob says nothing.

His perception of this team though, that may be pushed south and come contract time, Jacob may not have any feelings of loyalty to this franchise that warrants signing here long term.

 

[pucka lucka]

Results oriented? When has that ever worked in sports?

It works if they consider the results that matter

 

[cbcwpg]

Excellent signing, in years and $$.

For those complaining that it was a year to long, or 250$ K to much per season, I say this:

We have a budding superstar in our mix in Jacob Trouba. Yesterday, Mr Trouba sent out a tweet congratulating Stuart on the contract, and expressing his happiness that he will be a Jet for the next 4 years.

We are going to want to lock Trouba up for the majority of his career. Yesterday, our management sent a message to Jacob, that this organization recognizes hard work, dedication and professionalism. Chevy offered a fair to over fair contract to a leader that Jacob looks up to.

This type of signing has value not only in the player it was linked to, but the message it sends to the dressing room, and the culture that it breeds.

Play hard, work hard, and we will make you part of this team and family. Trouba saw that yesterday. And even though money will talk when it comes contract time, yesterday Jacob has a more positive view of this team's management than he had the previous day.

You let Stuart walk, Jacob says nothing.

His perception of this team though, that may be pushed south and come contract time, Jacob may not have any feelings of loyalty to this franchise that warrants signing here long term.

Agreed on all fronts. If you look at the Stu signing by itself and nothing else, yes it might be a bit long and a bit high, but like you said there is more to this as well. I will go even farther and say this is a message to the whole league.... if you work hard and commit yourself to this franchise we will try to commit to you.

 

[Whileee]

It is also important that Stuart is a hard-working and mature professional. The franchise needs to ensure that as the young players develop they have good role models that are setting the tone in terms of work ethic and professional behaviour, on and off the ice. By all accounts, Stuart fills that role very well.

 

[pucka lucka]

Agreed on all fronts. If you look at the Stu signing by itself and nothing else, yes it might be a bit long and a bit high, but like you said there is more to this as well. I will go even farther and say this is a message to the whole league.... if you work hard and commit yourself to this franchise we will try to commit to you.

It could also say, if you are a plug, you can come here and try real hard and we'll overpay you. I am playing devil's advocate of course.

 

[Whileee]

My thoughts as well.

I personally have no problem re signing Stuart. The money and term is probably a little too much and too long for my liking, but sometimes when you're dealing with a UFA, you (mgmt) don't get exactly what you want.

I don't know if this is true, but I'm speculating that one of the differences between some of the people that are not happy with this signing, with those that are ok with it, is whether or not someone puts any weight on "non ice" factors.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong way to look at that. It's perfectly valid for someone to point to Stuart's contract, look at his numbers, compare them to some others, and make the decision that he's not worth it.

I think the salary numbers are close enough to other comparables that the "off ice" factors do contribute to being ok with keeping Stuart. But that's also because I believe that a team needs those off ice things to improve the on ice product. I think you need guys on your team whose work ethic leads the way. That show everyone how to be a professional off the ice (not only working out, but Lawless's story about Stuart ripping into the team to get out and face the media springs to mind). I personally think that over time, those kinds of things can shape your culture, and in this case TNSE is saying "This guy (Stuart), is what we are about. Hard work. Effort. Dedication. Sacrifice." I'm guessing the retort to that is, great, but where is skill and winning in there? Winning is obviously the goal, but IMO, you need the other things as building blocks to get there. I don't know who said it, but I'm referring to the quote, "Will beats skill if the skill isn't willing."

Players are not going to publicly throw a guy under the bus. But Trouba and Bogo especially go out of their way to talk about Stuart's presence on the team. I'm sure his work ethic has an effect on pretty much the entire room. And speaking of Trouba and Bogo, Scheifele probably, and when guys like Morrissey, Lowry, Lipon, etc join the team, I don't think it's such a bad thing to have guys like Stuart around to model their work ethic and commitment around.

If signing Stuart, even to a slight premium keeps us that much further away from creating a situation like the Oilers, a team who cast off any veteran leadership presence, handed the reins over to their kids, and now have a rudderless ship, I'm all for it.

I also read all the other boards here. There are probably more than half of them that either in their TD talk, or talk about 2014 UFA's talk about adding Stuart to their roster.

Great post. I completely agree.

I also think that Maurice would have had input into this decision. He obviously appreciates what Stuart brings to the team, in all roles.

 

[Whileee]

It could also say, if you are a plug, you can come here and try real hard and we'll overpay you. I am playing devil's advocate of course.

Stuart has been more than a plug for the past couple of months. On the PK, he has been rock solid.

I think Maurice will get more out of him than Noel ever did.

Once we start seeing contracts in the upcoming seasons I think we'll realize that Stuart's deal was right for the market. I remember a lot of people saying that Chevy overpaid for our core players. Pretty soon, those deals are going to look like real bargains.

 

[theamazingchris]

I'd prefer the organization value a healthy mix of hard work and, oh, I don't know, actual talent? If everyone's egos are so fragile that they couldn't stand Stuart leaving, then we should toss it all out and start over.

Anyway, I'm personally not gonna try to turn back the tide of positive sentiment anymore. Stuart will do that for me! We'll get to watch the tide recede, and recede, and recede...

 

[Howard Chuck]

If we as a team value work ethic and determination, then I guess Buff leaving is a foregone conclusion.

 

[Jet]

Ha you guys are funny.

Cap is going up and up and this.. I guess in the eyes of some... huge contract is somehow going to ruin the franchise for the next 4 years.

The guy is our best D-man Penalty Killer which is ranked 6th in the league. He stands people up at our blueline better than any other D-man we have and is a fearless shot blocker. On top of that he's our most physical presence in front of the net and is tied with the best +/- on the team while playing 18+ mins a game.

There are plenty of teams who would give the same contract to Stuart.

I think the problem people have is with term. I think the dollars are too high too.

The main thing is a guy like Stuart is very easy to find. Hell, give me league minimum and I will try my bag off every night for the Jets. He has heart, he is a decent PKer, but he is not someone you have to offer that term to or risk losing a special asset.

I would have rather seen him walk and take our chances in the system or FA next season.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Stuart is an asset that we now control for 4 years. He has a Modified NTC that shouldn't prevent us from moving him, if the braintrust feels that will improve the team. I'd rather have that, than let an asset walk for nothing. I don't think the contract is terrible (perhaps a bit too high on both $$ and term), and he's useful in a 5-6 role. At the moment, he also seems to be playing better in Maurice's system, and has functioned pretty well with Trouba.

Add in the intangibles, and even as a fan who would rather see someone else in Stuart's position, I think the signing is fine.

 

[pucka lucka]

What I don't get about intangibles is how do you know they matter? How many CF% points is heart worth?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

What I don't get about intangibles is how do you know they matter? How many CF% points is heart worth?

I was talking about the intangible aspects of mentoring our prospects, most specifically Trouba. It's ONE aspect of his worth - read the rest of my post for how 'excited' I am about this signing. Hint: it's "Ok".

 

[Whileee]

What I don't get about intangibles is how do you know they matter? How many CF% points is heart worth?

Good point. I guess we need to trust the GM and coach that it matters. I expect that Maurice had a role in this decision, and he is a pretty experienced coach.

I don't think that Stuart only brings "intangibles". I think his penalty killing is very good, and that has been an important strength for the Jets recently. He does better when all he needs to do with the puck is whack it out of the zone.

 

[Whileee]

I think the problem people have is with term. I think the dollars are too high too.

The main thing is a guy like Stuart is very easy to find. Hell, give me league minimum and I will try my bag off every night for the Jets. He has heart, he is a decent PKer, but he is not someone you have to offer that term to or risk losing a special asset.

I would have rather seen him walk and take our chances in the system or FA next season.

Chevy and Maurice and the rest of the Jets organization clearly felt that Stuart has an important leadership role on the team. I'm pretty sure that they are aware of his on-ice limitations. I suppose that we have to trust that they know something about what makes a winning team (at least as much as HFB posters).

 

[pucka lucka]

I was talking about the intangible aspects of mentoring our prospects, most specifically Trouba. It's ONE aspect of his worth - read the rest of my post for how 'excited' I am about this signing. Hint: it's "Ok".

I wasn't asking you specifically. It's a perfectly legitimate question.

Why do you seem to take offence to most things I say lately?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I wasn't asking you specifically. It's a perfectly legitimate question.

Why do you seem to take offence to most things I say lately?

I don't take offense - you're reading FAR too much into my posts. Of course it's a completely legitimate question, and I gave my opinion.

Some more smileys, just ensure I'm not read as being 'angry' or offended:

 

[buggs]

Stuart has been more than a plug for the past couple of months. On the PK, he has been rock solid.

I think Maurice will get more out of him than Noel ever did.

Once we start seeing contracts in the upcoming seasons I think we'll realize that Stuart's deal was right for the market. I remember a lot of people saying that Chevy overpaid for our core players. Pretty soon, those deals are going to look like real bargains.

I have a very hard time comprehending some of the salaries some of these guys get. True, first line studs I understand how they attract the money they get, but then it gets odd, mostly because of some unreasonable deals for questionable players.

But it seems to me that Chevy has taken the long view on many deals and projected where he'll stand under rising cap structures more than trying to deal under existing cap structures. And in that, I think he's done an excellent job. Perhaps Kane, Wheeler, Bogosian, Little were all over valued under the cap their deals were negotiated under. But it's seeming that those are all going to seem like tremendous bargains in short order. I suspect that a PK specialist that is a team leader is going to seem like a bargain at this price within about 18 months. It's way better than paying Gonchar $5 mill per.

 

[garret9]

I dont agree that Stuart is a PK specialist, in the way of results since his PK results are near bottom of team and league... I do however believe he is a PK specialist in how he takes the minutes from our more offensive players so that we can give them more offensive mins without tiring them out.


Also, I don't agree with thie Edmonton example at all. In fact I think it speaks very differently. Edmonton kids have not been ruined by lack of vets, as there always have been vets on the team + the kids are the few good players on the team. The thing that hurts EDM is the very few good players they have: from poor draft/devel outside of their top picks AND they didn't get great value for some of their sells AND the vets they chose from trades/signings tended to be bad and/or overpaid and/or played beyond a role that they are skilled for.

Rebuilding doesn't work if you aren't getting any hits on non-top 5 picks. It sucks even worse when almost all of your Vets only attributes are their non-on ice attributes.

Not saying Jets are equivelant to EDM at all. Just pointing out the prob with them isn't their good players, its their lack thereof.

Still good with the Stu signing as long as we pick up a top 4 D by UFA or Buff trade.

 

[ICdave]

Mark Stuart - On getting the call. Was he tempted to wait till the summer? Re-committing to this organization/city. Being a leader in the room and influencing the young players. The players who helped him when he first got into the league. Has he used what they taught him with players like Trouba? Might this be his last contract?

Listen here.

Quite the connection to the city for the Minnesota native. Worth a listen.

 

[Huffer]

...
Also, I don't agree with thie Edmonton example at all. In fact I think it speaks very differently. Edmonton kids have not been ruined by lack of vets, as there always have been vets on the team + the kids are the few good players on the team. The thing that hurts EDM is the very few good players they have: from poor draft/devel outside of their top picks AND they didn't get great value for some of their sells AND the vets they chose from trades/signings tended to be bad and/or overpaid and/or played beyond a role that they are skilled for.

Rebuilding doesn't work if you aren't getting any hits on non-top 5 picks. It sucks even worse when almost all of your Vets only attributes are their non-on ice attributes.

Not saying Jets are equivelant to EDM at all. Just pointing out the prob with them isn't their good players, its their lack thereof.

...

I mentioned Edmonton so I will respond to this. I do think there is a similarity. From a lot of things that I have heard (people are free to discount), the dressing room had been passed over to the kids. Sure, there might have been a few "vets" on the team due to games played, but I don't think they had any vets that were keeping that room in line, and demanding hard work, etc. I have heard more than a few reports of the room having more of a country club atmosphere.

They definitely need more talent, need to hit on more picks outside the top 10, trades, etc. No argument there.

But from what I have heard of their dressing room, there IS, or at least has been a real culture problem in their room. And some of that IMO, has to do with a true lack of veteran leadership and accountability.

 

[Grind]

I've come off the ledge a little bit.

I mean i wasn't really on it to begin with, but i was definitely looking at it.

I guess my "issue" with the stu signing still comes down to

A) his skill level is easily replaceable
B) his "heart" is actually much more easily replaceable then people like to think
C) we already have clitsome at 2M for a similar role (bottom pairing/transitional dman)

I value his heart/grit/mentorship. What I don't value is the supposed rarity of it when combined with a skill level as small as Stu's.

I believe guys like stu can still be had cheaply from outside the org. I also think 4 years is too long. It's just odd to me to give term to that sort of guy.

My concern is one of two things will happen

1. We get an upgrade at second pairing left D. Looking at our organization, that means one of Stu or Clitsome is going to be in the pressbox. That's not crippling, but it's far less then idea.

2. We're playing Clitsome or Stuart as second pairing left D.

Neither of those situations is ideal.

 

[Boreal]

The more I think about it, 4 years and $10,500,000 is not a horrible price to pay to keep Trouba smiling and learning. Thus, I look at this contract as an investment in Jacob Trouba. Since I value Trouba more then any other Jet, and by a decent margin at that, I think this is a sound move. Additionally, as others have pointed out, Stuart is what he is as a player, but given his high character nature and self-sacrificing play, he probably is not the most difficult asset to move should that become a necessity.

Clitsome is a different story (but we didn't have Ellerby at the time of his signing and JoMo was a bit more of an unknown).

 

[garret9]

I mentioned Edmonton so I will respond to this. I do think there is a similarity. From a lot of things that I have heard (people are free to discount), the dressing room had been passed over to the kids. Sure, there might have been a few "vets" on the team due to games played, but I don't think they had any vets that were keeping that room in line, and demanding hard work, etc. I have heard more than a few reports of the room having more of a country club atmosphere.

They definitely need more talent, need to hit on more picks outside the top 10, trades, etc. No argument there.

But from what I have heard of their dressing room, there IS, or at least has been a real culture problem in their room. And some of that IMO, has to do with a true lack of veteran leadership and accountability.

A lot of the advance stats crowd are Oilers bloggers because they basically started this game so I've gotten a good perspective of what has gone right and wrong with them.

There are people like Staples and Spector who fought that was the problem.

Then there were people like Vic Ferrarai, J. Likens, Tyler Dellow, Jonathan Willis, etc. who fought otherwise.

IMO the later group was right, or at least more right.

I think if the EDM had less of a talent problem, no one would mention the dressing room problem. I'm not saying dressing room stuff doesn't matter, but I don't think many people get it right when it is or isn't.

I just don't think the EDM situation is a good comparable for why Vet leadership is needed. Just IMO.

I do however agree that leadership is an asset.

 

[Gm0ney]

My biggest problem is that it's one of those deals that forces Stu into the lineup for 4 years, whether he deserves to be there or not. On top of that, it's the kind of deal that precludes the team from signing that 4th D that Garret is hoping for. We've now got nearly $4.7 million tied up in Stu and Clitsome - how much is left under our "internal cap" to bring in a competent left-hander? (See also: Pavelec)