Mark Stone vs Leon Draisaitl

Who would you rather have on your team?

  • Stone

  • Draisaitl


Results are only viewable after voting.

supsens

Registered User
Oct 6, 2013
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Hall and McDavid played 75 minutes together at 5v5. You cannot draw any conclusion based on that sample size. Anyway, if you really want to use that sample, most of the other stats, like CF%, SF%, SCF%, xGF%, suggest Hall and McDavid were better together than without each other. They probably would have started scoring more if the Oilers let them play more than 75 minutes together.

Even if you could draw from a large sample, all you would have shown is that inductive arguments, sometimes, cannot be proven, and they can be wrong in certain situations. These are two reasons why people use the word PROBABLY when using inductive arguments. Telling me that Hall does not improve with McDavid does nothing to diminish the truth that Stone would probably see a spike in scoring rate next to McDavid.
If you want to show it is probably not the case, maybe show me a list of players that actually play significant minutes with McDavid and not improve point production rate. After that, show me that that list is longer than the one of the players that McDavid does improve. Since McDavid is generally considered a top 3 offensive player in the world, the burden of proof is on you to show that Stone would probably not improve point production playing with him.

In any event, Stone really does not need to show his production would increase with McDavid. Much of the difference in production over the last two years can be explained by Draisaitl playing more minutes, and it can be explained the fact that Draisaitl ran a near 20% shooting rate this year, which is well above his norm.

A tip, if you are going to be condescending, which I love, truly, come up with some better arguments.

In the end, this thread is pretty simple. If you value the "advanced stats" approach, you will probably prefer Stone. If you prefer the "points scored" approach, you will probably prefer Drasiaitl.

Advanced stats never tell the story even the most basic stat like shooting % tells you little
Shooting % if I like to pick the top corner but many of my shots are 1 inch wide how good would my shooting % look?
4 near misses 2 saves and one goal. 50% must be fluke. Yet its only 1 goal in seven good chances. Average shooting at best
 

ijif

Registered User
Dec 20, 2018
749
733
Advanced stats never tell the story even the most basic stat like shooting % tells you little
Shooting % if I like to pick the top corner but many of my shots are 1 inch wide how good would my shooting % look?
4 near misses 2 saves and one goal. 50% must be fluke. Yet its only 1 goal in seven good chances. Average shooting at best

I love word soup.
 

Kairi Zaide

Unforgiven
Aug 11, 2009
104,901
12,291
Quebec City
[mod]

The votes show that considering contract, age, and everything, most people would rather have Draisaitl than Stone on their team - Which is totally fine. It doesn't, in any way, shape or form, show that Draisaitl IS a better player than Stone. Not that I would expect the results to be much different if the initial question was worded otherwise, since most hockey fans are uneducated and will just look at points and conclude Draisaitl is better for the sole reason points have historically been seen as the best indicator of how good a player is due to lack of better tools we have today.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Llamamoto

Nice Bison. Kind Bison. Yep.
Sep 5, 2018
8,855
12,207
Stone.

He actually has value defensively. A lot of it.

Couple that with being a PPG player over the last 2 seasons?

Easy choice.

Draisaitl.

He has more value offensively. By a lot.

He was the only player to score 50 goals and hit 100 points last year?

Couple that with being 4 years younger and with a better contract?

Easy choice.
 

Kairi Zaide

Unforgiven
Aug 11, 2009
104,901
12,291
Quebec City
Advanced stats never tell the story even the most basic stat like shooting % tells you little
Shooting % if I like to pick the top corner but many of my shots are 1 inch wide how good would my shooting % look?
4 near misses 2 saves and one goal. 50% must be fluke. Yet its only 1 goal in seven good chances. Average shooting at best
I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with this post tbh.
Draisaitl.

He has more value offensively. By a lot.

He was the only player to score 50 goals and hit 100 points last year?

Couple that with being 4 years younger and with a better contract?

Easy choice.
The value Stone brings "defensively" over Draisaitl is substantially superior to the value Draisaitl brings "offensively" over Stone.
 
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supsens

Registered User
Oct 6, 2013
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I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with this post tbh.

The value Stone brings "defensively" over Draisaitl is substantially superior to the value Draisaitl brings "offensively" over Stone.

Im saying shooting% isn't really shooting % it's saves vrs goals and it does not count all shots taken.
I have not been keeping up on all the stats, is there a shot attemp goal% stat floating around?
It would be a more accurate gauge of shooting %
 
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Kairi Zaide

Unforgiven
Aug 11, 2009
104,901
12,291
Quebec City
Im saying shooting% isn't really shooting % it's saves vrs goals and it does not count all shots taken.
I have not been keeping up on all the stats, is there a shot attemp goal% stat floating around?
It would be a more accurate gauge of shooting %
I get what you mean. That obviously makes sense. Albeit the reason people point out his sh% is because literally no high volume scorer maintains such high sh%.

For your info, corsica has CorsiSh% and FenwickSh% if you select "individual" under report in the skater stats page.
 

Rhaegar Targaryen

Registered User
Jun 25, 2016
6,375
4,203
If Drai was Canadian this thread would get **** on and wouldve been closed for loopsided result in his favor way back.

Career high 73p VS 105p. If Stones was by far The best defensive foward ever, maybe you could have a debate. This is not close at all.

It’s because Drai is an Oiler not named McDavid. All Oilers get shit on
 

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
15,670
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Sarnia, On
I am the first to say the Oiler fans over rate Dra but I don't have to think much to pick him on this one. Dra simply is an elite winger, Stone is a very good one who has mad stealing skills. Stone would fit my team better but if I was building from scratch I take Dra every time.
 

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