Value of: Mark Scheifele

[GaryPoppins]

Many things that go beyond on ice production. Reputation has him as a guy who has incredible work ethic, and is always continually trying to better himself and learn. He imports specific water, he did DNA testing to see what his body metabolizes the best so he can be good to go for games.... the list goes on... Guy is a stud and a Jets lifer.

To be 100%, I could see him staying with the Jets and getting into coaching/management eventually.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

But your stance implies that the Oilers aren't able to ice a good 2nd line due to McDavid's contract which is entirely false. I've already laid out how you can spend less on wingers on McDavid's line and still have superior results from that line to cover the difference in salary. Do you think Scheifele could yield similar results as he is right now if you swapped Wheeler for Rattie?

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying for $12 million, I take Scheifele and Stastny over McDavid. Nothing more.

And no, I don't think Scheifele would look as good with lame wingers.

 

[McFlyingV]

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying for $12 million, I take Scheifele and Stastny over McDavid. Nothing more.

And no, I don't think Scheifele would look as good with lame wingers.

Ok, but a replacement player still needs to play in that spot for Edmonton that you're claiming the extra 6 mil goes towards. McDavid's value goes far beyond the way that you're thinking about it in a vacuum because he doesn't need good wingers to put up the numbers he does. So in a value argument you're accepting that by having Stasny to make up the dollar amount you're now sticking the same amount of money on Scheifele's wing as would be on McDavid's, and someone is still going to be playing in the spot that Stasny occupies (on the Oilers) reducing his impact in this comparison. Your argument would make sense if the cap was 12.5M and you physically got two players instead of one, but thats not how it works because the 12 forward positions still need to be filled, and the cap far exceeds 12.5M meaning having McDavid doesn't mean you can't have a good 2nd line.

Put it this way. If Winnipeg made this trade they could still have Stastny on the 2nd line with McDavid centring Wheeler + a replacement player (this could be a cheap UFA, or a revolving door of developing prospects on ELCs). In that scenario your cap hit is the same, and your first line becomes better.

 

[MardyBum]

What a strange bump.

 

[Starat327]

Ok, but a replacement player still needs to play in that spot for Edmonton that you're claiming the extra 6 mil goes towards. McDavid's value goes far beyond the way that you're thinking about it in a vacuum because he doesn't need good wingers to put up the numbers he does. So in a value argument you're accepting that by having Stasny to make up the dollar amount you're now sticking the same amount of money on Scheifele's wing as would be on McDavid's, and someone is still going to be playing in the spot that Stasny occupies (on the Oilers) reducing his impact in this comparison. Your argument would make sense if the cap was 12.5M and you physically got two players instead of one, but thats not how it works because the 12 forward positions still need to be filled, and the cap far exceeds 12.5M meaning having McDavid doesn't mean you can't have a good 2nd line.

Put it this way. If Winnipeg made this trade they could still have Stastny on the 2nd line with McDavid centring Wheeler + a replacement player (this could be a cheap UFA, or a revolving door of developing prospects on ELCs). In that scenario your cap hit is the same, and your first line becomes better.

The Jets can afford better depth - theoretically - by fielding a 6 mil Scheifele over a 12 million McDavid. Thats the point. They are getting two good players for 12 million as opposed to one exceptional player. They can afford to pay a more expensive winger because they have a #2C spot filled.

To draw it out more - the Oilers will have approximately 21 million tied into their top 2 Cs. In this scenario, the Jets will have 12. It stands to reason that the Jets are in a much better position to surround their 'not as good' centers with better wingers, to the tune of 10 million, that's all. Obviously how they spend that money has to come in to play, but again - theoreteically - they can build a deeper, more well rounded team by dividing production into several lines instead of one or two.

 

[rent free]

A lot.

 

[oXo Cube]

McDavid is significantly better than any other player in the league, but the cap hit difference of 6.375 between him and Scheifele at least allows one to have a case in regards to which one is actually better for a team to have. The thing is, claiming that McDavids and Kanes cause cap problems is often quite far from the truth, for it is the middle range guys who cause the bulk of the issues. See: Lucic, Milan.

Also, smart management might just be the best asset any team could ever ask for.

This right here.

McDavid may have the biggest contract in the NHL but he's actually still underpaid because he's really that good. He's a one player first line and a dominant one at that.

What's killing the Oilers are the Lucic's and the Russell's on the roster. The players being paid big money to not get the job done.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

The Jets can afford better depth - theoretically - by fielding a 6 mil Scheifele over a 12 million McDavid. Thats the point. They are getting two good players for 12 million as opposed to one exceptional player. They can afford to pay a more expensive winger because they have a #2C spot filled.

To draw it out more - the Oilers will have approximately 21 million tied into their top 2 Cs. In this scenario, the Jets will have 12. It stands to reason that the Jets are in a much better position to surround their 'not as good' centers with better wingers, to the tune of 10 million, that's all. Obviously how they spend that money has to come in to play, but again - theoreteically - they can build a deeper, more well rounded team by dividing production into several lines instead of one or two.

Yes, thanks. This is pretty much what I was saying.

 

[GMpuckFan66]

What if Buffalo offered Eichel

No way. Jets aren't giving up their number 1 center for a kid that still hasn't proven shit. Eichel starts living up to his potential and maybe they talk....maybe

 

[Skolman]

In a hockey world without a cap you are right. In the cap world you are wrong. Having the best player does not guarantee team success which the Oilers prove in 2017/18.

So your saying Scheifele has more value than McDavid?

 

[Maukkis]

This right here.

McDavid may have the biggest contract in the NHL but he's actually still underpaid because he's really that good. He's a one player first line and a dominant one at that.

What's killing the Oilers are the Lucic's and the Russell's on the roster. The players being paid big money to not get the job done.

If McDavid and Lucic underperformed by four million dollars each, one would be a top flight 1C, whereas the other would be a replacement level player.

It doesn't hurt you nearly as badly to pay a little extra to your stars as it does to overpay your depth. I'm pretty sure any NHL team could hire you or me to repeat that statement for the last week of June and it would be very worth it.

 

[PensandCaps]

Barkov
Schef
Mackinnon


All 3 are untouchable in terms of value. Those contracts are more valuable than simply acquiring a better player or a bunch of players for them.

6 million for the next 7-8 years for an elite Centre is amazing. I wouldn't trade Schef for anything bar McDavid.

 

[Stuzchuk]

with his contract (8x6.125), there's not a single player in the league with the exception of McDavid that I would trade Scheifele for... plain and simple

in 2 years, he'll be seen as the best deal in the league

 

[libertarian]

Yes you will though. Guys like Myers and Perreault aren't going to fit under the cap once Wheeler, Laine and Connor get new contracts, and thats ok because they aren't important pieces and are pieces you should be replacing internally through prospect development.

You are absolutely correct but we would have to lose more very skilled players to pay McD 12.5m then Scheifele's 6.15m. Losing a Ehlers or Conner type young player to get what? 25-30 more offensive points from McD? Not worth it.

LV has proven you can win without a superstar player.

 

[libertarian]

What a strange bump.

That's my fault, I totally missed this thread when it first appeared. Jets had just lose to LV and I was in mourning for a few weeks and just stayed away from anything to do with hockey. This morning I came across it and had to put my 2 cents worth.

 

[libertarian]

So your saying Scheifele has more value than McDavid?

In the cap world yes. That is value, not the better player.
I've stated before I believe that McD when his career is over may be considered the best player since Mario.

 

[Skolman]

In the cap world yes. That is value, not the better player.
I've stated before I believe that McD when his career is over may be considered the best player since Mario.

Yikes, okay. We'll agree to disagree

 

[Deam78]

The madness continues.

 

[My3Sons]

Many things that go beyond on ice production. Reputation has him as a guy who has incredible work ethic, and is always continually trying to better himself and learn. He imports specific water, he did DNA testing to see what his body metabolizes the best so he can be good to go for games.... the list goes on... Guy is a stud and a Jets lifer.

To be 100%, I could see him staying with the Jets and getting into coaching/management eventually.

You make excellent points. He’s the face of the franchise and beyond his play his intangibles help the other players and probably put some extra fannies in the seats. I think there are a lot of relatively young posters here who at times forget that the players are actual people and not just lines of computer code in a video game. They look at points without taking all the extras into account. Jets are lucky to have him and I am glad he bought into a small market, albeit a passionate one. Jets have a bright future.

 

[TheJadePipe]

Yikes, okay. We'll agree to disagree

I’ll take Chef at 6mil over McD at 12mil 10/10 times.
If this wasn’t a Cap league it would be opposite

 

[Skolman]

I’ll take Chef at 6mil over McD at 12mil 10/10 times.
If this wasn’t a Cap league it would be opposite

I'm sure your owners wouldn't, same with your GM

 

[Starat327]

I'm sure your owners wouldn't, same with your GM

I think if you're starting a team from scratch tomorow, everyone takes McDavid. However, there are a few teams where the upgrade from their current 1C to McDavid might not be worth the difference in what they'd have to sacrifice to fit him, the Jets being one of them.

 

[Saitama]

Yikes, okay. We'll agree to disagree

That's ok, you say a lot of things that most of us disagree with.

 

[Skolman]

I think if you're starting a team from scratch tomorow, everyone takes McDavid. However, there are a few teams where the upgrade from their current 1C to McDavid might not be worth the difference in what they'd have to sacrifice to fit him, the Jets being one of them.

So you would rather have Schiefele + Little up the middle over McDavid?

 

[Starat327]

So you would rather have Schiefele + Little up the middle over McDavid?

So you would rather have McDavid than Schieifele + Wheeler?