Value of: Mark Scheifele

[Skolman]

So you would rather have McDavid than Schieifele + Wheeler?

Right now? I absolutely would. Wheeler turns 32 right away and might have 2-3 years left where he is a top 20 scorer in the league. McDavid is 21 years old, and is a 2X Art ross trophy winner, he will probably have 10+ Art Ross trophies before his career is over.

Also, Wheeler is about to get paid, next off-season Wheeler and Scheifele will make more combined than McDavid.

 

[Starat327]

Right now? I absolutely would. Wheeler turns 32 right away and might have 2-3 years left where he is a top 20 scorer in the league. McDavid is 21 years old, and is a 2X Art ross trophy winner, he will probably have 10+ Art Ross trophies before his career is over.

Also, Wheeler is about to get paid, next off-season Wheeler and Scheifele will make more combined than McDavid.

"Yikes, okay. We'll agree to disagree"

 

[scarbrow21]

The whole argument about McDavid vs Schiefele is stupid because it has to many "but what about"s... Fact remains, if you think Wheeler is good with Scheifele in the middle...how good do you think he'd be with McDavid? The McDavids and Crosbys of the world are line drivers. Throw almost ANYONE on their wing and that line STILL drives. The same can't be said about Scheif at least not yet.

 

[TheJadePipe]

So you would rather have Schiefele + Little up the middle over McDavid?

Yes I will take Chef on line 1 and Little in line 2 opposed to Mcdavid on line 1 and nobody centering line 2

 

[TheJadePipe]

I'm sure your owners wouldn't, same with your GM

Well I guess that’s why Wpg can make the playoffs and Edm can’t ..... A good surrounding cast can be afforded in Wpg, A lot harder with McD contract

 

[My3Sons]

The whole argument about McDavid vs Schiefele is stupid because it has to many "but what about"s... Fact remains, if you think Wheeler is good with Scheifele in the middle...how good do you think he'd be with McDavid? The McDavids and Crosbys of the world are line drivers. Throw almost ANYONE on their wing and that line STILL drives. The same can't be said about Scheif at least not yet.

I think for both guys it’s a projection. Both are young and both have to be given several seasons with competitive teams and playoff runs to really know how the relative values stack up in a cap league. My outside impression is that Schief does have an offensive impact on the play of his line mates but that is admittedly anecdotal from watching the Jets in the playoffs and several games in the regular season. I get that in a vacuum CROSBY and McDavid are better players but in a cap league there is definitely an argument to be made that Schief at his cap hit might be more valuable but that will only be determined in hindsight. Right now I would just say that with the exception of the COL and MacK Leafs and Matthews and probably PIT because they have two 1Cs, I imagine every other team in the league would love to be able to have either player as the 1C for the next ten years. I’m not saying that MacK and Matthews are better than Schief and McD just that I could see the teams saying they are happy with their prospects going forward enough not to make a change.

 

[strongcomp05]

ITT Schiefele is extremely overrated

 

[Skolman]

Well I guess that’s why Wpg can make the playoffs and Edm can’t ..... A good surrounding cast can be afforded in Wpg, A lot harder with McD contract

Easy, don't act like Winnipeg has been this big success story. This was the 1st year you guys have won a playoff round

 

[antiqueslivers]

Ehlers and Schief for the cost of Mcdavid. I think I would go ehlers and schief.

 

[Starat327]

ITT Schiefele is extremely overrated

IRL cap space isnt overrated, which is why we see teams attach good prospects (Tervainen) to get it.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Eichel is not a top 5 player... I could list a lot more players who are better than eichel, Scheifele being one of them

I personally think, Eichel will become better, than Scheifele, in a couple of years, like MacKinnon became this season. And I'm a neutral fan, who mostly cares about Russian players...

 

[TheJadePipe]

Easy, don't act like Winnipeg has been this big success story. This was the 1st year you guys have won a playoff round

I’m not, just trying to be clear....
Chefs contract allows us to sign another quality player, Like Wheeler or Ehlers or even a #1 Rhd like Trouba or Buff. With McD contract, He will have to play with a player like Dano or a Defman like Poolman. Hurts team depth, in order to equal $$ spent

 

[scarbrow21]

I’m not, just trying to be clear....
Chefs contract allows us to sign another quality player, Like Wheeler or Ehlers or even a #1 Rhd like Trouba or Buff. With McD contract, He will have to play with a player like Dano or a Defman like Poolman. Hurts team depth, in order to equal $$ spent

PIT has been putting players like that with Crosby and Malkin and it's seemed to work out all right

 

[Snowman]

PIT has been putting players like that with Crosby and Malkin and it's seemed to work out all right

So has Edmonton and it hasn't worked too well for them.

 

[Skolman]

So has Edmonton and it hasn't worked too well for them.

McDavid turned 21 this year, how many Cups did Crosby win at the age of 21? Mcdavid has done things 3 years into the league that even Crosby hasn't done. Scheifele is 25, and finished PPG on a very good team with good linemates.

It's easy to pick Scheifele if you're a Jets fan, he's your guy I get it.

If anyone in hockey had the opportunity to acquire McDavid today, they would give up their best player in a heartbeat.

 

[rubikscube]

Would Edmonton trade McDavid for

Scheifele+(rights) trouba?

 

[Panthaz89]

Scheifele is better than Eichel.

meh opinions Eichel is much better offensively if you watch the two...the difference is one player plays with dead weight all season the other would be lucky to be PPG if he had the Crosby treatment too where you expect a guy to produce no matter who you put with him.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Not criminalizing at all. Just stating that two very good players are likely better than one superstar in the cap world.

You can probably fit both types of players on your roster. Pittsburgh did it. Washington did it. McDavid is a legitimate superstar, who is worth every penny he's being paid. He also needs a smart and savvy GM to build a team around him.

 

[Flyerfan52]

But your stance implies that the Oilers aren't able to ice a good 2nd line due to McDavid's contract which is entirely false. I've already laid out how you can spend less on wingers on McDavid's line and still have superior results from that line to cover the difference in salary. Do you think Scheifele could yield similar results as he is right now if you swapped Wheeler for Rattie?

Fottunately the Jets don't have to find out as they have the extra $6+ million to pay a premimum winger.
Last year McDavid was on an ELC but still had a $0.8 winger in Rattie. Considering his contract tripled (if you allow for his bonuses) how do you improve McDavid's wingers when even after the cap going up you have $5 million less to play with?
It's easy to say the lack of $s to surround him with better players is due to the anchor cap hits of players like Lucic but those are a fact the Oilers have to live with. End result is Edmonton has 3 top 6 forwards in McDavid, Draisaitl & RNH that are all listed as centers. The D is more than suspect while the goalie position is iffy as well.
To fill out the roster of 18 there is under $11 & Nurse will take a big chunk of that.
Regardless of if McDavid is truelly a generational player he looks destined to remain surrounded by scrubs. He deserves a better fate but that would involve moving him to a team with competent management unless the Oilers learn to draft outside the top 10. Then he might have a chance 1/2 way through his 2nd contract.

 

[McFlyingV]

Fottunately the Jets don't have to find out as they have the extra $6+ million to pay a premimum winger.
Last year McDavid was on an ELC but still had a $0.8 winger in Rattie. Considering his contract tripled (if you allow for his bonuses) how do you improve McDavid's wingers when even after the cap going up you have $5 million less to play with?
It's easy to say the lack of $s to surround him with better players is due to the anchor cap hits of players like Lucic but those are a fact the Oilers have to live with. End result is Edmonton has 3 top 6 forwards in McDavid, Draisaitl & RNH that are all listed as centers. The D is more than suspect while the goalie position is iffy as well.
To fill out the roster of 18 there is under $11 & Nurse will take a big chunk of that.
Regardless of if McDavid is truelly a generational player he looks destined to remain surrounded by scrubs. He deserves a better fate but that would involve moving him to a team with competent management unless the Oilers learn to draft outside the top 10. Then he might have a chance 1/2 way through his 2nd contract.

The bolded has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread though, and nor does anything after it. The thread is about value of each player with contracts considered.

As for your first point, does it matter if McDavid is playing with one cheap winger and one good winger? A line of RNH-McDavid-Rattie still out produces a line that Schiefele centres with two good wingers at the same cap hit (once Kyle Connor is off his ELC). The only wildcard in this conversation is if you think swapping a player like Kyle Connor for a cheap replacement winger hurts your power play enough to negate the scoring advantages that a McDavid line brings. Considering that Kyle Connor only had 7PP goals and 4 PP assists I think you'd have a hard time making a case that it does because McDavid's line already outproduces Scheifele's (prorated over 82 games since he missed time) by 17 goals at even strength (Scheifele was pro-rated to 78 goals at even strength scored while on the ice over 82 games, Edmonton scored 95 at evens while McDavid was on the ice).

People sincerely under-rate just how much offence McDavid can create without a quality winger on each side. His additional cap hit more than covers the difference by being able to produce more than any other player even with a cheap winger on his line.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

The bolded has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread though, and nor does anything after it. The thread is about value of each player with contracts considered.

As for your first point, does it matter if McDavid is playing with one cheap winger and one good winger? A line of RNH-McDavid-Rattie still out produces a line that Schiefele centres with two good wingers at the same cap hit (once Kyle Connor is off his ELC). The only wildcard in this conversation is if you think swapping a player like Kyle Connor for a cheap replacement winger hurts your power play enough to negate the scoring advantages that a McDavid line brings. Considering that Kyle Connor only had 7PP goals and 4 PP assists I think you'd have a hard time making a case that it does because McDavid's line already outproduces Scheifele's (prorated over 82 games since he missed time) by 17 goals at even strength (Scheifele was pro-rated to 78 goals at even strength scored while on the ice over 82 games, Edmonton scored 95 at evens while McDavid was on the ice).

People sincerely under-rate just how much offence McDavid can create without a quality winger on each side. His additional cap hit more than covers the difference by being able to produce more than any other player even with a cheap winger on his line.

FWIW, I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying. That McDavid can play with cheap players on his wing and still produce gold. Scheifele has been blessed to have a guy like Wheeler for most of his career, and kids like Connor on the other side are pretty rare. So yes, I’m not sure Scheifele could produce with Rattie, whoever that is, lol.

 

[McFlyingV]

FWIW, I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying. That McDavid can play with cheap players on his wing and still produce gold. Scheifele has been blessed to have a guy like Wheeler for most of his career, and kids like Connor on the other side are pretty rare. So yes, I’m not sure Scheifele could produce with Rattie, whoever that is, lol.

Absolutely. The only argument I was making was that imo McDavid more than covers the difference in salary because he doesn't need as much salary around him to have a superior impact. So imo Winnipeg would be better off with say a Wheeler-McDavid-cheap contract than they would with a Wheeler-Scheifele-Connor line at the same price. Of course that is just an example as I have no idea if McDavid would be a better fit with Wheeler or someone like Laine or Ehlers instead in Wheelers spot. I think people are just associating team success far too much into this argument when thats much more indicative of quality scouting and management than it is of Scheifele at 6.2M being more valuable than McDavid at 12.5. The Oilers could have surrounded McDavid just fine with quality players and a competitive team even at his 12.5M cap hit. They just chose to do a horrible job drafting over the years, making some poor trades, and signing bad contracts instead.