Mario Lemieux best prospect ever?

[mrzeigler]

hmmm. it might be 66. as usual, its Mario or Gretz. some others that were up there: Bobby Smith, Dale Hawerchuk, Bure/Mogilny/Fedorov, Tony Tanti, Modano.

This was responsible for my first "what the?" moment of the day (he was drafted a couple years before I got into hockey). Then I discovered he broke Gretzky's junior rookie goal record. I know have a new name to mention when people drool over a hotshot prospect.

Still, he was taken 12th overall. That's not a draft position for a best-ever prospect.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Does Brian Bellows deserve a place on the shortlist? Not only was he touted as another Gretzky in junior but the Bruins, North Stars and Flyers all traded up in the summer of 81 for a shot at taking first overall in 82.

Granted, the Bruins wound up selecting Gord Kluzak, but only after Minnesota traded them a couple of players for an agreement not to draft Bellows.

I read that the Canadiens' trade of Pierre Larouche to the Whalers during 81/82 was an attempt to put themselves in the frame for Lemieux two and a half years later by landing Hartford's first round draft pick in 1984.

 

[JaymzB]

I read that the Canadiens' trade of Pierre Larouche to the Whalers during 81/82 was an attempt to put themselves in the frame for Lemieux two and a half years later by landing Hartford's first round draft pick in 1984.

That it was, however they didn’t make enough other moves to ensure Hartford finished last (unlike the Lafleur draft). It was also similar to how the Habs made a trade in the 70’s to try and position themselves to be able to pick Gretzky.

 

[Malefic74]

The Canadiens neither bought nor shut down a league to get Beliveau. They had the rights to him as a professional but had no say over his career as long as he was an amateur. Beliveau had not signed a c-form and as a result could not be turned pro against his will. What the Canadiens did was play a major role in having the QSHL leave the amateur ranks and declare themselves a pro league.

It was an issue that had been brewing for several years as the players were all paid to play, with salaries comparable to those paid in the AHL for many of the better performers. The QSHL had been referred to as "shamateur" regularly in the press.

All true. Also despite the fact that Montreal and a lot of the other teams who played against Beliveau in his brief 10 game stint with the Habs were excited and hyped him quite a bit, he still had some doubters, including Conn Smythe who didn't think much of Big Jean at all.

Delicious irony that it was Beliveau who won the very first Conn Smythe Trophy.

 

[alko]

Intersting that nobody mentioned A. Daigle

 

[gifted88]

Lindros was the most hyped prospect ever. The hype started even before his draft year.

I would slot Lemieux at 2 and probably LaFleur at 3. Daigle had a lot of hype but I think most of it was localized and not on the grand scale as the three I mentioned.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

I'm not old enough to see any other "next ones" come up besides crosby but I don't understand how anyone was more hyped than him. Especially with the media in today's day and age it just made it ridiculous. There's a crosby section in the ns hall of fame at the metro centre in halifax and there's a quote by crosby there from when we was a kid that says "some people on the internet are calling me the best peewee player in the world, I think that's a bit of a stretch"

 

[Hawksfan2828]

I think Lemieux, Gretzky, Lindros and Crosby all were hyped pretty much the same, taking into account their different time periods.

All 4 players performed at their peaks as well so the hype was warranted.

This is what Scotty Bowman had to say about Gretzky:

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=565875&navid=DL|CHI|11DRAFT

Indeed, “The Great One†signed with the rival World Hockey Association as a 17-year-old in 1978. When the NHL consumed four WHA teams in 1979, Gretzky became part of the establishment with the Edmonton Oilers. But some organizations, notably the Winnipeg Jets, were not convinced he could succeed.

“I have to admit,†Bowman said. “I saw Wayne play in Montreal with the World Juniors in 1977, and there’s no way I would have expected him to become what he was. He was a skinny kid. Now, if I have a criticism of all these tests the prospects undergo these days, it’s that so many of them are off-ice, to gauge strength and body fat and all. Wayne always joked that he was the weakest guy on his team. But like he said, ‘How many push-ups do you have to do during a game?’

 

[ozzie]

I was really surprised when TSN kept calling Ovechkin the best prospect since Mario.

I honestly think Lindros was the best prospect in the history of the game. With all his bad press ontop of his accomplishments. His physical stature and skill level was just making people drool. His baggage and drama just added to it.

He was supposed to be the new Gordie Howe, a combination of Messier and Wayne/Mario. Dominating player. No one had ever seen a player like that.

Lindros may also be the biggest What If since Bobby Orr. He might also be the biggest disappointment for a career for any top prospect.

Mountains were moved just to trade for him. OHL changed the draft rules just to allow his trade so he could play in their league, for fear of losing him to someplace else. Its called the Lindros rule for a reason.

 

[Hardyvan123]

This is what Scotty Bowman had to say about Gretzky:

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=565875&navid=DL|CHI|11DRAFT

Interesting stuff but we have to remember that we would have seen Wayne in the OHL just destroying it for another year if there was no WHA.

Just to compare Gartner who went 4th in the 79 draft had a 64-41-49-90 line in 76-77 while Wayne was 63-70-112-182 in the same year.

As far as hype goes there is the big 4 of Wayne, Mario, Sid and Lindros IMO then there is the next tier down.

The next tier would include guys like Lafluer, Dionne and Potvin and AO.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Saying ovie was as hyped as crosby is pretty far fetched, he was a consensus 1, I'd probably put him in the same tier as tavares but below crosby

 

[steveat]

Intersting that nobody mentioned A. Daigle

Haha.. you took the name right out of my mouth. I was a very young kid when Gretzky was coming in. He was all hype from when he was like 14 or even earlier. He started his pro career in the WHL I think and when those teams merged into the NHL, he started to make his mark and solidify it. No hype over the draft because technically he was'nt drafted...by the NHL anyway..or was he? and decided to play in the WHL?

As for Lemieux..he was supposed to be the next big phenom as well and played up to his hype.

I am a year younger than Lindros and I specificall remember reading about him in THN as I used to be a subscriber. There were articles about him when he was only 15. He was a can't go wrong pick..size, skill..everything. His personality sucked and ego through the roof which probably had partly to do with his "could have been, but not so stellar career"

THEN there was Alexandre Daigle..I believe people were comparing him to being the next Lemieux type player. He was playing in the Q and had season(s) of well over 100 points..I think 160 area. Ottawa was investigated for throwing that season to get him...now ..when you get a team trying to throw the season to get you!? The hype is BIG. Daigle was the biggest bust of all time, BUT it wasn't because he could not equate it to the NHL level...it was that his heart wasn't in the game. He even admitted he never liked hockey..he only did it because he was good at it. With all the travel and stress of moving about and playing a 72+ game schedule...it because more like a chore...he just was not into it. Funny enough, he's still playing in Davos Switzerland..he tried his hand in the entertainment industry, but was no good at that, so he went back to hockey..he was a big waste of talent.

THere was a lot of hype with Crosby, but I think that was a for sure franchise player. I don't think he was supposed to be the next Gretzky and or Lemieux. Most #1 picks go on to have "decent" careers and some are even franchise players, but few establish super star status.

Tavares...well, he is playing with nobodies..so I don't think we have seen his potential just yet.

 

[wedge]

Lindros was sooo hyped because of his size and strenght along with all the rest... I don't remember that much about Lemieux but I remember reading somewhere that Pittsburgh flirted with the idea of drafting Kirk Muller. Lindros was an absolute no-brainer.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Considering Pittsburgh was accused by NJ's GM of deliberately tanking at the end of the year to get Lemieux, I highly doubt they would have considered Muller

 

[wedge]

Considering Pittsburgh was accused by NJ's GM of deliberately tanking at the end of the year to get Lemieux, I highly doubt they would have considered Muller

I have no idea where I've read it and I thought it was stupid. Maybe it was from a bad writer or a bad book. It's been more than 10 years so I really don't remember where I've read it.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

THEN there was Alexandre Daigle..I believe people were comparing him to being the next Lemieux type player. He was playing in the Q and had season(s) of well over 100 points..I think 160 area.

Someone needs to do a "Let me HockeyDB that for you" site. Seriously.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm not really talking about hype , more like for knowledgable hockey fans/people who was the best when prospect.

 

[Gylf]

I'm not really talking about hype , more like for knowledgable hockey fans/people who was the best when prospect.

Gretzky is #1 and Lemieux is #2 but I'm missing Jaromir Jagr's name in the discussion. Jagr scored 60 points (30+30) in 51 games in the Czechoslovakian League as a 17 year old.

That´s amazing numbers considering he played against men in one of the topleagues in Europe. And as a 15 year old Jagr scored 57 goals and 84 points in 35 games in the top junior A-league in Czechoslovakia.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Gretzky is #1 and Lemieux is #2 but I'm missing Jaromir Jagr's name in the discussion. Jagr scored 60 points (30+30) in 51 games in the Czechoslovakian League as a 17 year old.

That´s amazing numbers considering he played against men in one of the topleagues in Europe. And as a 15 year old Jagr scored 57 goals and 84 points in 35 games in the top junior A-league in Czechoslovakia.

If there was a draft of all the prospects of all time before they had played a game in the nhl I think lemieux goes over gretzky. A lot of people questioned gretzky's size and didnt think he could make it in the nhl. Lemieux's size was incredible as he had everything else too.

 

[Gylf]

If there was a draft of all the prospects of all time before they had played a game in the nhl I think lemieux goes over gretzky. A lot of people questioned gretzky's size and didnt think he could make it in the nhl. Lemieux's size was incredible as he had everything else too.

I weren't around in the late 70's but I really have a hard time to believe that "a lot of people" didn't think that a U18-player who scored 110 points in WHA weren't gonna make it in the NHL.