BenchBrawl
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Mario Lemieux best prospect ever?
- Thread starter BenchBrawl
- Start date
I'd say Eric Lindros came into the league with even more hype than Lemieux did. At least around the time of the draft.
Reading back, Lemieux was seen as boom or bust leading into the '84 draft. An extremely talented player who was either going to be a bust, or one of the greatest hockey talents of all-time.
Many felt Lemieux was a sure bet, but there were some scouts who questioned weather he'd be a great pro player.
Reading back, Lemieux was seen as boom or bust leading into the '84 draft. An extremely talented player who was either going to be a bust, or one of the greatest hockey talents of all-time.
Many felt Lemieux was a sure bet, but there were some scouts who questioned weather he'd be a great pro player.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Yes, I would say Mario Lemieux was the biggest prospect ever. I was too young to remember the hype firsthand, but I've read about it a lot, and it looks like more than Lindros, Spezza, and Crosby ever received.
Crosbyfan
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- Nov 27, 2003
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Well. Internet and Media being what it is, you could argue it's Sid.
But for their day, chronologically I would say Beliveau, Mahovlich, Orr, Gretzky, Mario, Lindros, then Sid. AO might be in there if not for Sid.
SidGenoMario
Registered User
In terms of pure hockey abilities, and not in terms of media hype? Gretzky was more of a hot commodity coming in, even more than Lemieux. The only reason Mario had the ridiculous 280 point season was because he was 18 and NHL ready. Gretzky had a better junior season at 16 (Compared to Mario's 16 year old season) and was already playing pro at 17.
Dark Shadows
Registered User
Some aspects of Gretzky's game were questioned. Size and ability to carry his game to NHL level. Obviously he proved them dead wrong.
Up the Irons
Registered User
hmmm. it might be 66. as usual, its Mario or Gretz. some others that were up there: Bobby Smith, Dale Hawerchuk, Bure/Mogilny/Fedorov, Tony Tanti, Modano.
Up the Irons
Registered User
Someone mentioned Beliveau. It could very well be him. Considering the Habs had to buy a whole league and then shut it down just to get him...
Wasn't Morenz highly touted or was he already in the league when his legend was born?
That said, Gretz was well known, if not famous, from 12 years old!!!
Wasn't Morenz highly touted or was he already in the league when his legend was born?
That said, Gretz was well known, if not famous, from 12 years old!!!
Sens Rule
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- Sep 22, 2005
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Modano, Tanti and Smith do not belong in the discussion IMO.
Guy Lafleur was hyped forever along with Dionne for the same draft. Perreault was going to be huge for either Vancouver or Buffalo. I would add those 3 to the list that was already posted (below). Montreal made two different trades in order to snag Lafleur!!! Dionne was nearly as sought after I think Montreal tried to swap 3 good players to Detroit for him. Also Denis Potvin.
But for their day, chronologically I would say Beliveau, Mahovlich, Orr, Gretzky, Mario, Lindros, then Sid.
Big Phil
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I did a poll on this a while back. I picked Lemieux, Lindros, Lafleur, Crosby and Ovechkin, all guys drafted after 1969 when the NHL draft was instituted. Another guy you would pick would be Orr prior to that and he is right there with Lemieux in terms of potential and such.
Gretzky had too many critics. He was too slow, he was too skinny, he even had a guy like Bobby Clarke publicly say that he wouldn't last at the NHL level. There were a lot less doubts about Lemieux or even Lindros. Lemieux had the work ethic knock against him but few thought he wouldn't be a tantalizing prescence in the NHL. Ditto for Lindros and even Crosby had few doubters about his game and the transition into the NHL.
That being said, Lemieux is my pick
Gretzky had too many critics. He was too slow, he was too skinny, he even had a guy like Bobby Clarke publicly say that he wouldn't last at the NHL level. There were a lot less doubts about Lemieux or even Lindros. Lemieux had the work ethic knock against him but few thought he wouldn't be a tantalizing prescence in the NHL. Ditto for Lindros and even Crosby had few doubters about his game and the transition into the NHL.
That being said, Lemieux is my pick
lextune
I'm too old for this.
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
BenchBrawl
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Im not arguing Gretzky was dominating as much as Lemieux as a prospect , but Mario had the size and skills combination going for him so it was less likely he would become someone that couldnt handle playing against big adult players , Gretzky COULD have been that way like others have been , but of course he didnt.
Its kinda funny/strange to look back at how everyone valued Lemieux for his size, and criticized Wayne for his. In the long run, Gretzky turned out to be the more durable player, despite being smaller and weaker. Lindros, highly anticipated because of the combination of size, strength, and talent (as opposed to just the 1st two), proved even less durable still.
Sens Rule
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I find people forget just how big Mario was. Mario was HUGE. He was among the biggest player in the NHL. When he came back after the 4 years and was fatter he might have weighed 245-260. It is easy to foget just how big Mario was since he did not play a game like Lindros but as a prospect it had to make everyone drool. He is that good AND he is tall and huge and strong as well!
Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
It's hard to believe he weighed as much as Jagr and Lindros, but he was deceptively strong. There was something about Lemeiux, Jagr and Lindros wearing numbers 66, 68 and 88 that made them appear even bigger than they actually were... and they were about as tall, big and strong as any highly skilled forwards in history. Ovechkin is in the same mold... combine Malkin's frame and Crosby's strength and you get one of these guys.
redbull
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In terms of pre-NHL hype, you must adjust for the "information age" which is extremely significant and usually not in a good way.
Tavares suffered from the information age by playing in the OHL too young and breaking 99s scoring record at 16. That set unfair expectation and created far too much hype relative to how he rated as a pure prospect.
Lindros was hyped as a can't miss "next one" more than anyone since Mario Lemieux, rightly so - he was an incredible prospect who was flawless in terms of on-ice toolset.
But Mario was the most "can't miss" prospect ever. I recall watching highlights of Mario in Laval on French television in Canada. I learned French just from watching the sports report - he was getting consistent coverage in his draft year. I think he had 282 points, averaged 4pts per game which, on any scale, is astonishing.
I always felt he'd end up in Monteal, someway. I'm kinda surprised he didn't. Montreal may have actually, physically, exploded (the team, the city) if that ever happened.
Tavares suffered from the information age by playing in the OHL too young and breaking 99s scoring record at 16. That set unfair expectation and created far too much hype relative to how he rated as a pure prospect.
Lindros was hyped as a can't miss "next one" more than anyone since Mario Lemieux, rightly so - he was an incredible prospect who was flawless in terms of on-ice toolset.
But Mario was the most "can't miss" prospect ever. I recall watching highlights of Mario in Laval on French television in Canada. I learned French just from watching the sports report - he was getting consistent coverage in his draft year. I think he had 282 points, averaged 4pts per game which, on any scale, is astonishing.
I always felt he'd end up in Monteal, someway. I'm kinda surprised he didn't. Montreal may have actually, physically, exploded (the team, the city) if that ever happened.
I'll go with this but a lot depends on how many years a guy spent in junior. I think Mario had 4 while Lindros only had a couple and actually played for Canada in the Canada Cup before making his 2nd appearance in the WJC.
I think Lemieux, Gretzky, Lindros and Crosby all were hyped pretty much the same, taking into account their different time periods.
All 4 players performed at their peaks as well so the hype was warranted.
I sitll think Lindros was the most hyped prospect ever. I was 18 so its more clear in my memory then Lemieux.
Lindros hype is comparable to Crosby in the day of the internet. Those two trades for Lindros were insane and speak volumes to the expectations for his career.
They both share draft day drama and Penguins had the whole tanking drama, so they both stick out.
Lindros hype is comparable to Crosby in the day of the internet. Those two trades for Lindros were insane and speak volumes to the expectations for his career.
They both share draft day drama and Penguins had the whole tanking drama, so they both stick out.
buffalowing88
Registered User
While for some reason or another, the OP has quite the hard on for Lemieux on this forum, I have to think it was Mario.
That being said, I still don't understand how Spezza scatters into the occasional post. Was he really that well hyped? I was only in high school but I don't remember his hype approaching even that of Tavares. I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm just saying I must have missed it and i'd love to hear someones comments on that.
Also, I had no idea Hawerchuck was a hyped prospect. It makes perfect sense to me as I'm fairly convinced that he's top 10 in terms of pure talent for the forwards of the 80's, but I wasn't aware that he had a reputation that preceded him before entering the NHL.
That being said, I still don't understand how Spezza scatters into the occasional post. Was he really that well hyped? I was only in high school but I don't remember his hype approaching even that of Tavares. I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm just saying I must have missed it and i'd love to hear someones comments on that.
Also, I had no idea Hawerchuck was a hyped prospect. It makes perfect sense to me as I'm fairly convinced that he's top 10 in terms of pure talent for the forwards of the 80's, but I wasn't aware that he had a reputation that preceded him before entering the NHL.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
I agree.
Lindros was the most hyped. And Potvin and Lafleur were more hyped as sure things than Mario.
I think Spezza was hyped a lot the year before his draft year when he was nicknamed "The Special One".
Jeffler
See You At Game 3
I'd have Lindros as #1.
I cant citate this, but I know I've read that up until draft day, though the Penguins were fairly certain they were gonna take Lemieux, they weren't sure if he was "all that" that he had been showing in junior, and at many times contemplated picking Muller.
On the other hand, a team that knew they couldn't sign him signed Lindros because the hype was so big that it guaranteed the biggest trade return ever to flip him.
In short, Mario was thought to have a higher peak, but Lindros didn't have any shades of uncertainty.
I cant citate this, but I know I've read that up until draft day, though the Penguins were fairly certain they were gonna take Lemieux, they weren't sure if he was "all that" that he had been showing in junior, and at many times contemplated picking Muller.
On the other hand, a team that knew they couldn't sign him signed Lindros because the hype was so big that it guaranteed the biggest trade return ever to flip him.
In short, Mario was thought to have a higher peak, but Lindros didn't have any shades of uncertainty.
The Canadiens neither bought nor shut down a league to get Beliveau. They had the rights to him as a professional but had no say over his career as long as he was an amateur. Beliveau had not signed a c-form and as a result could not be turned pro against his will. What the Canadiens did was play a major role in having the QSHL leave the amateur ranks and declare themselves a pro league.
It was an issue that had been brewing for several years as the players were all paid to play, with salaries comparable to those paid in the AHL for many of the better performers. The QSHL had been referred to as "shamateur" regularly in the press.
