Marc Bergevin - Would I lie to you Edition

[Captain Mountain]

The stuff I have to read on other forums ...

Come on, Bergevin clearly knows that the D core is too slow and doesn't move the puck well. Its entirely his fault and shouldn't be trusted to fix the problem, but he's not blind.

 

[Hoople]

Any one of us on HF with half a brain could have built a better team these past 6 years trust me... He's a special kind of clueless Believe me.

A parody of a parody.

 

[Leafsmann]

Why are people still defending him after all these years?

 

[roy munson]

I honestly can't tell if you're a Donald Trump satire account.

Once I "got it", I started enjoying his posts We need humour these days. Sad.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Once I "got it", I started enjoying his posts We need humour these days. Sad.

Sad!

 

[Runner77]

Come on, Bergevin clearly knows that the D core is too slow and doesn't move the puck well. Its entirely his fault and shouldn't be trusted to fix the problem, but he's not blind.

If he knew that his D core was too slow, he would have protected Beaulieu instead of trading him. He wouldn't have had a molasses 30-year old journeyman 7th D like Benn protected. He wouldn't have signed Alzner.

Look at the neanderthals he acquired at the TDL. King, really? Ott? Traded a skilled player for Martinsen, how forward looking is that? Played hardball with Radulov and Markov. Thought he'd be able to stopgap their losses with the likes of Streit and Hemsky.

And despite all of these gems, no one from pro scouting was fired -- they were all promoted, got raises and/or extensions. How is that even possible. He's blinded by his unconditional loyalty to anyone he appoints -- and that will also be his downfall. There is no meritocracy and no performance based decision-making.

He's so not blind that as the GM of a high revenue team that typically spends to the cap max, he's left with sizeable cap room in-season.

He's so not blind that while other teams are hoarding PMDs, he trades his first pairing PMD for an older shutdown D.

He's so not blind that he makes winning attitude, leadership and other assorted intangibles the overwhelming pursuit in his acquisitions.

He's so not blind that he hires a coach from a tv show that no one wanted and did nothing to get back into the game other than make him cry, when the guy is a clueless mangler. He compounds the mistake by keeping him way past his expiry date and doubled down when challenged -- and became his best friend, went on vacations together, even found a girlfriend through him.

He's so not blind that he makes sure his childhood friend JJD beat out the likes and Larry Robinson and then, by some divine intervention, JJD magically survives a 2nd coach but has done nothing to deserve it.

He's so not blind that Sylvain Lefebvre has a job for life, doesn't matter what he's done in the 5 years prior. What does he see in the father of the kid to whom he is a godparent? Hey, Nick Carrière needs a job, no worries. Look at his coaching record in the university ranks -- the guy is a shoo-in, right Larry?

He's so not blind that he completely misreads the situation involving the Black Hawks when they had to get rid of Shaw. He gifts them 2 high 2nd rounders in a deep draft. And then signs a blank cheque meeting the player's onerous demands which were known before the trade, overpaying him and giving him too much term, all that for a third liner who is concussion prone.

If he's not blind, then I don't know what he is.

 

[Captain Mountain]

If he knew that his D core was too slow, he would have protected Beaulieu instead of trading him. He wouldn't have had a molasses 30-year old journeyman 7th D like Benn protected. He wouldn't have signed Alzner.

Look at the neanderthals he acquired at the TDL. King, really? Ott? Traded a skilled player for Martinsen, how forward looking is that? Played hardball with Radulov and Markov. Thought he'd be able to stopgap their losses with the likes of Streit and Hemsky.

And despite all of these gems, no one from pro scouting was fired -- they were all promoted, got raises and/or extensions. How is that even possible. He's blinded by his unconditional loyalty to anyone he appoints -- and that will also be his downfall. There is no meritocracy and no performance based decision-making.

He's so not blind that as the GM of a high revenue team that typically spends to the cap max, he's left with sizeable cap room in-season.

He's so not blind that while other teams are hoarding PMDs, he trades his first pairing PMD for an older shutdown D.

He's so not blind that he makes winning attitude, leadership and other assorted intangibles the overwhelming pursuit in his acquisitions.

He's so not blind that he hires a coach from a tv show that no one wanted and did nothing to get back into the game other than make him cry, when the guy is a clueless mangler. He compounds the mistake by keeping him way past his expiry date and doubled down when challenged -- and became his best friend, went on vacations together, even found a girlfriend through him.

He's so not blind that he makes sure his childhood friend JJD beat out the likes and Larry Robinson and then, by some divine intervention, JJD magically survives a 2nd coach but has done nothing to deserve it.

He's so not blind that Sylvain Lefebvre has a job for life, doesn't matter what he's done in the 5 years prior. What does he see in the father of the kid to whom he is a godparent? Hey, Nick Carrière needs a job, no worries. Look at his coaching record in the university ranks -- the guy is a shoo-in, right Larry?

He's so not blind that he completely misreads the situation involving the Black Hawks when they had to get rid of Shaw. He gifts them 2 high 2nd rounders in a deep draft. And then signs a blank cheque meeting the players onerous demands which were known before the trade, overpaying him and giving him too much term, all that for a third liner who is concussion prone.

If he's not blind, then I don't know what he is.

...Look at my post history. I am not a Bergevin apologist. But none of that means he doesn't recognize the D, as currently constituted, is immobile and struggles with moving the puck. I agree that its his fault. I agree that he shouldn't be trusted to get out of it. But he's said he wants a more mobile D core.

 

[Runner77]

...Look at my post history. I am not a Bergevin apologist. But none of that means he doesn't recognize the D, as currently constituted, is immobile and struggles with moving the puck. I agree that its his fault. I agree that he shouldn't be trusted to get out of it. But he's said he wants a more mobile D core.

I'm not targeting you but the notion of how suspect his decision-making has been, especially since the last summer, and going back to the last two years. Hence my contention with the qualifier that he's "not that bad". There is a profound disconnect between what he says and what he does.

He also said he was building through the draft. He also recognized that the Habs needed a no. 1C. In both of these instances, he expressed a want, he clearly recognized a situation. But, did he act upon it? It's the disconnect that's tiring -- what would make anyone value what he wants as an expression of something meaningful? Again, not on you.

If this had been Year 1 of his tenure and he had said "I want a more mobile D", I'd be giving him the benefit of the doubt. But now? If it weren't for comedic relief, I'd be grappling with my decision to listen to his pressers again.

 

[Runner77]

Sad!

MAGA!!!

 

[kohorevolution]

If he knew that his D core was too slow, he would have protected Beaulieu instead of trading him. He wouldn't have had a molasses 30-year old journeyman 7th D like Benn protected. He wouldn't have signed Alzner.

Look at the neanderthals he acquired at the TDL. King, really? Ott? Traded a skilled player for Martinsen, how forward looking is that? Played hardball with Radulov and Markov. Thought he'd be able to stopgap their losses with the likes of Streit and Hemsky.

And despite all of these gems, no one from pro scouting was fired -- they were all promoted, got raises and/or extensions. How is that even possible. He's blinded by his unconditional loyalty to anyone he appoints -- and that will also be his downfall. There is no meritocracy and no performance based decision-making.

He's so not blind that as the GM of a high revenue team that typically spends to the cap max, he's left with sizeable cap room in-season.

He's so not blind that while other teams are hoarding PMDs, he trades his first pairing PMD for an older shutdown D.

He's so not blind that he makes winning attitude, leadership and other assorted intangibles the overwhelming pursuit in his acquisitions.

He's so not blind that he hires a coach from a tv show that no one wanted and did nothing to get back into the game other than make him cry, when the guy is a clueless mangler. He compounds the mistake by keeping him way past his expiry date and doubled down when challenged -- and became his best friend, went on vacations together, even found a girlfriend through him.

He's so not blind that he makes sure his childhood friend JJD beat out the likes and Larry Robinson and then, by some divine intervention, JJD magically survives a 2nd coach but has done nothing to deserve it.

He's so not blind that Sylvain Lefebvre has a job for life, doesn't matter what he's done in the 5 years prior. What does he see in the father of the kid to whom he is a godparent? Hey, Nick Carrière needs a job, no worries. Look at his coaching record in the university ranks -- the guy is a shoo-in, right Larry?

He's so not blind that he completely misreads the situation involving the Black Hawks when they had to get rid of Shaw. He gifts them 2 high 2nd rounders in a deep draft. And then signs a blank cheque meeting the player's onerous demands which were known before the trade, overpaying him and giving him too much term, all that for a third liner who is concussion prone.

If he's not blind, then I don't know what he is.

Is there a way to save a post?

 

[Runner77]

Is there a way to save a post?

You're way too kind, thank-you. There are so many good posters on this site, I hope you enjoy reading them as much as I do.

 

[voyageur]

If he knew that his D core was too slow, he would have protected Beaulieu instead of trading him. He wouldn't have had a molasses 30-year old journeyman 7th D like Benn protected. He wouldn't have signed Alzner.

Look at the neanderthals he acquired at the TDL. King, really? Ott? Traded a skilled player for Martinsen, how forward looking is that? Played hardball with Radulov and Markov. Thought he'd be able to stopgap their losses with the likes of Streit and Hemsky.

And despite all of these gems, no one from pro scouting was fired -- they were all promoted, got raises and/or extensions. How is that even possible. He's blinded by his unconditional loyalty to anyone he appoints -- and that will also be his downfall. There is no meritocracy and no performance based decision-making.

He's so not blind that as the GM of a high revenue team that typically spends to the cap max, he's left with sizeable cap room in-season.

He's so not blind that while other teams are hoarding PMDs, he trades his first pairing PMD for an older shutdown D.

He's so not blind that he makes winning attitude, leadership and other assorted intangibles the overwhelming pursuit in his acquisitions.

He's so not blind that he hires a coach from a tv show that no one wanted and did nothing to get back into the game other than make him cry, when the guy is a clueless mangler. He compounds the mistake by keeping him way past his expiry date and doubled down when challenged -- and became his best friend, went on vacations together, even found a girlfriend through him.

He's so not blind that he makes sure his childhood friend JJD beat out the likes and Larry Robinson and then, by some divine intervention, JJD magically survives a 2nd coach but has done nothing to deserve it.

He's so not blind that Sylvain Lefebvre has a job for life, doesn't matter what he's done in the 5 years prior. What does he see in the father of the kid to whom he is a godparent? Hey, Nick Carrière needs a job, no worries. Look at his coaching record in the university ranks -- the guy is a shoo-in, right Larry?

He's so not blind that he completely misreads the situation involving the Black Hawks when they had to get rid of Shaw. He gifts them 2 high 2nd rounders in a deep draft. And then signs a blank cheque meeting the player's onerous demands which were known before the trade, overpaying him and giving him too much term, all that for a third liner who is concussion prone.

If he's not blind, then I don't know what he is.

I am not going to comment on the entire post, but I will comment.

I agree with some points. He has mistakes. Show me a GM who hasn't. Bob Gainey trading Ryan Mc Donaugh looms larger than any Bergevin mistake.

The team under performed last year. He moved people out. Beaulieu getting moved was a blessing.
Speed on d is not an issue with Mete, Petry, Sclemko. We're doing mighty fine here in Winnipeg with a slower d. Chemistry is a big issue. People need to stop crying over Markov and Radulov. Markov was past his prime, accept the fact that Dallas offers little taxes, and no scrutiny, that's what attracted Radulov.

Julien is not my favourite coach, better than Therien though, but Muller is one of the best as an assistant. I doubt Robinson wanted to come back to Montreal.

I like the fact that the coaching staff is finally getting with the program, splitting up talent to create more offense. Worked in Pittsburgh, Ottawa, Chicago.

Drouin is a star in development. Danault and Plekanec are no worse than Fisher, Jarnkrok that made the Cup last year. I like Shaw a lot, he brings out more in his teammates, and he fits in the locker room. Might spark Pacman. A lot of things are starting to come together. If Price gets hot, and the fair weather fans get off his back, this could emerge as a playoff team, which is a fresh start, without the dead weight of last year's gang. All the Canadians on this team know how to win, when it counts, that should count for something.

 

[Masuli]

I am not going to comment on the entire post, but I will comment.

I agree with some points. He has mistakes. Show me a GM who hasn't. Bob Gainey trading Ryan Mc Donaugh looms larger than any Bergevin mistake.

The team under performed last year. He moved people out. Beaulieu getting moved was a blessing.
Speed on d is not an issue with Mete, Petry, Sclemko. We're doing mighty fine here in Winnipeg with a slower d. Chemistry is a big issue. People need to stop crying over Markov and Radulov. Markov was past his prime, accept the fact that Dallas offers little taxes, and no scrutiny, that's what attracted Radulov.

Julien is not my favourite coach, better than Therien though, but Muller is one of the best as an assistant. I doubt Robinson wanted to come back to Montreal.

I like the fact that the coaching staff is finally getting with the program, splitting up talent to create more offense. Worked in Pittsburgh, Ottawa, Chicago.

Drouin is a star in development. Danault and Plekanec are no worse than Fisher, Jarnkrok that made the Cup last year. I like Shaw a lot, he brings out more in his teammates, and he fits in the locker room. Might spark Pacman. A lot of things are starting to come together. If Price gets hot, and the fair weather fans get off his back, this could emerge as a playoff team, which is a fresh start, without the dead weight of last year's gang. All the Canadians on this team know how to win, when it counts, that should count for something.

So with all stars aligning we could come out as a playoff team, and you are fine that? After 6 years MB has changed this team from maybe a contender to maybe a playoff team and that fine for you?

 

[bsl]

Once I "got it", I started enjoying his posts We need humour these days. Sad.

There’s nothing to get. It may have been funny once but not 100 times.

 

[voyageur]

So with all stars aligning we could come out as a playoff team, and you are fine that? After 6 years MB has changed this team from maybe a contender to maybe a playoff team and that fine for you?

I will point out that being a playoff team is thereby a contender, as has been proven as such.

Also the elements that built Pittsburgh and Chicago into perennial contenders, epic failure, never happened in Montreal, and its rabid media and fanbase have scapegoated everybody along the way, making building a perennial contender a difficult venture. Trading draft picks, instead of building a future with them, has created a vacuum, I am not sure who is to blame for that ultimately.
There was not a lot in the cupboards when MB came on board.

I think this is a transition year. A lot of vets were moved out. A lot of new faces gives the team a different look. Young players are getting a chance to contribute.

Bergevin has money to spend for next year's bumper free agent crop, saving the investment this year on development.

I don't think he is as astute of a GM as Stan Bowman, Yzerman, Armstrong, Doug Wilson and the likes, but I don't have as strong of an opposition to his direction as a lot people do, or at the very least I am patient to see how it unfolds. Getting the best French Canadian player available earned him a year of armistice, in my books.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I am not going to comment on the entire post, but I will comment.

I agree with some points. He has mistakes. Show me a GM who hasn't. Bob Gainey trading Ryan Mc Donaugh looms larger than any Bergevin mistake.

The team under performed last year. He moved people out. Beaulieu getting moved was a blessing.
Speed on d is not an issue with Mete, Petry, Sclemko. We're doing mighty fine here in Winnipeg with a slower d. Chemistry is a big issue. People need to stop crying over Markov and Radulov. Markov was past his prime, accept the fact that Dallas offers little taxes, and no scrutiny, that's what attracted Radulov.

Julien is not my favourite coach, better than Therien though, but Muller is one of the best as an assistant. I doubt Robinson wanted to come back to Montreal.

I like the fact that the coaching staff is finally getting with the program, splitting up talent to create more offense. Worked in Pittsburgh, Ottawa, Chicago.

Drouin is a star in development. Danault and Plekanec are no worse than Fisher, Jarnkrok that made the Cup last year. I like Shaw a lot, he brings out more in his teammates, and he fits in the locker room. Might spark Pacman. A lot of things are starting to come together. If Price gets hot, and the fair weather fans get off his back, this could emerge as a playoff team, which is a fresh start, without the dead weight of last year's gang. All the Canadians on this team know how to win, when it counts, that should count for something.

Laine, Ehler, Scheifle, Kane, Saad, Crosby, Malkin, Kessel...

and it's not working all that great in Ottawa you know, they havent been to the ECF in a while...

what you like about Shaw ? a whole lot of intangibles people have yet to see from him since he joined. You do not have a single example you can share about his locker room presence or how he helps "bring more in his teammates", none, you were sold he was great and you bought it that is all.


I don't know wich canadians you're talking about cause the ones we saw last PO, well yeah, we didnt see much of them really, they kinda went into ghost mode... unless you're talking about Hudon, Alzner, Schlemko, Davidson or Morrow ??? good ole canadian boy!

seriously ?? the "canadians on this team", lemme guess, more so than Americans Kessel or Kane, or Russian Malkin ? or maybe you meant they know more about winning Cup(s) than Slovenian Kopitar or ? ? ?

 

[yianik]

...Look at my post history. I am not a Bergevin apologist. But none of that means he doesn't recognize the D, as currently constituted, is immobile and struggles with moving the puck. I agree that its his fault. I agree that he shouldn't be trusted to get out of it. But he's said he wants a more mobile D core.

There is only one player that MB wanted on this D who isn't there, Markov. So aside from Markov the D is exactly as MB chose to build it.

If MB had decided a mobile D was not necessary then I would say I strongly disagree with that but okay, that's what he built.

Saying now he wants a more mobile D is telling me he did not appreciate what exactly it was that he was putting together and how that would look and function on the ice. Even with Markov, who we know has slowed, would not have made it a mobile D, though he would have brought other skills like passing and vision.

I just don't get how a few weeks into the season he can say this as if it was something that, you know, just happened somehow. This is what you say when you inherit a team, not when you built it, and just finished doing it.

 

[voyageur]

Laine, Ehler, Scheifle, Kane, Saad, Crosby, Malkin, Kessel...

and it's not working all that great in Ottawa you know, they havent been to the ECF in a while...

what you like about Shaw ? a whole lot of intangibles people have yet to see from him since he joined. You do not have a single example you can share about his locker room presence or how he helps "bring more in his teammates", none, you were sold he was great and you bought it that is all.


I don't know wich canadians you're talking about cause the ones we saw last PO, well yeah, we didnt see much of them really, they kinda went into ghost mode... unless you're talking about Hudon, Alzner, Schlemko, Davidson or Morrow ??? good ole canadian boy!

seriously ?? the "canadians on this team", lemme guess, more so than Americans Kessel or Kane, or Russian Malkin ? or maybe you meant they know more about winning Cup(s) than Slovenian Kopitar or ? ? ?

You clearly don't watch Winnipeg, they had those guys last year dominating, it is Kulikov and Myers who have changed their defensive game, neither are particularly fleet, but the forwards, who have considerable speed, and defense are playing a tighter game. And Hellebuyck has been exceptional, in his maturation.


The Hawks were built on drafting. Started with Toews, Kane, Seabrook and Keith, and had continued. Pittsburgh sucked mightily, until Crosby, Malkin, Staal (who became Bonino eventually), Letang and Fleury. MB inherited Price, Pacman, and Subban (Weber). Eller for Halak. From 2008 -2011 one player made the squad, Gallagher.

So he has improved the talent within, which is necessary to grow, without sacrificing the future, with more picks. Shaw was an exception, but he is a glue guy, very popular in the Hawks room, and missed last year. He may be overpaid, by at least $1 million per, but he is the kind of player you need. Was his line not good for the Habs in the playoffs, aside from a contract performance by Radulov, who Bergy courted when he was high risk, whose value for term isn't even close to Drouin's... Who were the worst players in last season's dance: 1. Beaulieu 2. Markov 3. King, who was not a Dale Weise like acquisition unfortunately. 4. Nesterov 5. Emelin...all gone.

I was talking about Price, Weber, Shaw, Drouin, Gallagher as Canadians, who know how to win.

I watched the feature on the Cup winning team of '93. That was a Canadian team, with 14 Quebeckers on its roster, proudly. I don't fault MB for going in that direction, BG's United Nations of hockey was unsuccessful, and I actually wrote Gainey at one point, telling him to start scouting the WHL after his upstate NY kids did not pan out. He and Gauthier were saved personnel wise by the coaching of Jacques Martin. It is time to go in a different one, after 6 years. I think the chemistry will turn out good in time. Players like Jerabek and Lernout might provide solutions within. If I am looking for a player on the outside, it is Anthony Duclair, otherwise Paul Stastny next year to replace Plekanec.

 

[Saint Patrick]

I'm surprised no one mentioned this gem

 

[417]

I'm surprised no one mentioned this gem

It was what I originally thought of when I saw the thread title...

but I was too embarrassed to post something lol

 

[Doc McKenna]

King Marc!

 

[Masuli]

I will point out that being a playoff team is thereby a contender, as has been proven as such.

You've been eating too much of Bergevin's "Once you get to playoffs anything can happen"-crow.

 

[ECWHSWI]

You clearly don't watch Winnipeg, they had those guys last year dominating, it is Kulikov and Myers who have changed their defensive game, neither are particularly fleet, but the forwards, who have considerable speed, and defense are playing a tighter game. And Hellebuyck has been exceptional, in his maturation.


The Hawks were built on drafting. Started with Toews, Kane, Seabrook and Keith, and had continued. Pittsburgh sucked mightily, until Crosby, Malkin, Staal (who became Bonino eventually), Letang and Fleury. MB inherited Price, Pacman, and Subban (Weber). Eller for Halak. From 2008 -2011 one player made the squad, Gallagher.

So he has improved the talent within, which is necessary to grow, without sacrificing the future, with more picks. Shaw was an exception, but he is a glue guy, very popular in the Hawks room, and missed last year. He may be overpaid, by at least $1 million per, but he is the kind of player you need. Was his line not good for the Habs in the playoffs, aside from a contract performance by Radulov, who Bergy courted when he was high risk, whose value for term isn't even close to Drouin's... Who were the worst players in last season's dance: 1. Beaulieu 2. Markov 3. King, who was not a Dale Weise like acquisition unfortunately. 4. Nesterov 5. Emelin...all gone.

I was talking about Price, Weber, Shaw, Drouin, Gallagher as Canadians, who know how to win.

I watched the feature on the Cup winning team of '93. That was a Canadian team, with 14 Quebeckers on its roster, proudly. I don't fault MB for going in that direction, BG's United Nations of hockey was unsuccessful, and I actually wrote Gainey at one point, telling him to start scouting the WHL after his upstate NY kids did not pan out. He and Gauthier were saved personnel wise by the coaching of Jacques Martin. It is time to go in a different one, after 6 years. I think the chemistry will turn out good in time. Players like Jerabek and Lernout might provide solutions within. If I am looking for a player on the outside, it is Anthony Duclair, otherwise Paul Stastny next year to replace Plekanec.

Are you one who start their sentence "Moé ch'pas raciste mais..." ? ? ?

 

[kohorevolution]

You're way too kind, thank-you. There are so many good posters on this site, I hope you enjoy reading them as much as I do.

Yea. I sure do. In fact, I’m here every day just to read. I rarely post anything.

 

[SakuKoivu11]

Marc Bergevin is the worst signing GM ever.

Desharnais $3.5 mil for 4 years.
Plekanec $6 mil for 3 years.
Semin
Hemsky
Alzner $4.8 mil for 6 years.
Price $10.5 mil for 8 years.

Molson won’t be happy with him throwing money around lol.