Value of: Marc-Andre Fleury

[Riptide]

You wouldn't take Murray? Are you insane?

He wants someone more proven. But not someone as proven as Fleury.

 

[airbus220]

The only "gong show"

The gong show is you can't read.

I wrote that PIT has to accept a new list. Do you get this.

And if PIT won't accept why should Fleury agree to anything.

 

[SEALBound]

The gong show is you can't read.

I wrote that PIT has to accept a new list. Do you get this.

And if PIT won't accept why should Fleury agree to anything.

Why do you believe there is so much animosity between the Penguins org and Fleury?

 

[airbus220]

You wouldn't take Murray? Are you insane?

My God, you can't read too.

Sure I would take Murray but I wouldn't want to keep him, I would trade him directly.

And that's the way Vegas will go. They will use the expansion draft as an auction an trade good players away. Why keep Murray.

 

[airbus220]

Why do you believe there is so much animosity between the Penguins org and Fleury?

It's the same what happens in this thread.

I said Fleury should make a new list which PIT would need to accept.
But PIT fans don't want to accept.
So why should Fleury agree to anything.

It's very easy, Fleury wants to stay, that's why he asked for NMC and NTC.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The gong show is you can't read.

I wrote that PIT has to accept a new list. Do you get this.

And if PIT won't accept why should Fleury agree to anything.

Your entire theory doesn't make sense. You're saying Fleury will change his NTC so he's impossible to move, forcing the Penguins to buy him out. Why would the Penguins say yes to that? Fleury doesn't have to power to not agree to anything, his NTC isn't restrictive enough to do that.

If he made his NTC and wants to change it so it's impossible to trade him, the Penguins will say no. Fleury has no power to "not agree to anything" because he doesn't have a full NTC.

 

[Riptide]

The gong show is you can't read.

I wrote that PIT has to accept a new list. Do you get this.

And if PIT won't accept why should Fleury agree to anything.

LOL. Learn what you're talking about would be a good first step before trying to lecture people.

So Pittsburgh should accept a new list that could prevent them from trading him to a team that may want him... just so he waives for the ED? Why would they do that when they could trade him before the ED?

You posts make zero sense.

 

[Riptide]

My God, you can't read too.

Yep. Apparently no one can read. And Vegas will want someone more proven then Grubauer and less proven (but better) then Fleury. Oh and they'll trade all their good players... for stuff.

It's like talking to a 3 year old.

 

[airbus220]

He wants someone more proven. But not someone as proven as Fleury.

I write this only for you because you have trouble to understand things.

Sure I want someone proven but in a cap world I don't want to waste over 5M on a goalie.

Why is this so difficult to understand. Especially for PIT fans who are too cheap to buyout Fleury.

 

[Tripod]

Your entire theory doesn't make sense. You're saying Fleury will change his NTC so he's impossible to move, forcing the Penguins to buy him out. Why would the Penguins say yes to that? Fleury doesn't have to power to not agree to anything, his NTC isn't restrictive enough to do that.

If he made his NTC and wants to change it so it's impossible to trade him, the Penguins will say no. Fleury has no power to "not agree to anything" because he doesn't have a full NTC.[/QUOTE

Has there ever been leaks of MAF trade to list? Because based on Murray taking the #1 role last year in the playoffs, he and his agent could have easily already put together a list of teams that really limit Pitts options.

It would be really interesting to ACTUALLY know who he WOULD accept a trade to.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Has there ever been leaks of MAF trade to list? Because based on Murray taking the #1 role last year in the playoffs, he and his agent could have easily already put together a list of teams that really limit Pitts options.

It would be really interesting to ACTUALLY know who he WOULD accept a trade to.

No, I don't believe so. All I've heard with regards to Fleury's NTC was that he was willing to waive for a team or two he had previously listed on his NTC at the deadline. I'm guessing one of those was Calgary, seeing how JR was talking to Calgary about Fleury prior to the draft.

 

[DomBarr]

The gong show is you can't read.

I wrote that PIT has to accept a new list. Do you get this.

And if PIT won't accept why should Fleury agree to anything.

the penguins don;t have to accept anything. They have a list of 18 teams he can be traded to without requiring anything from MAF. There is a list of 11 teams they can negotiate with however to finalize the trade MAF has to agree to waive his NTC.

If a trade with one of the 18 can't be finalized , then MAF needs to be consulted to see what he wants...

 

[Legion34]

It's no more absurd then the idea that he'll force them to buy him out solely to make a little more money. He's currently made ~49 million over his career and is owed another 11 million on his current contract. The idea that he's going to screw over the only team he's played for for a couple million just doesn't make sense with everything else we've heard about him and with what Rutherford has said about the situation.

There's been very few instances of where we've heard players doing this - in fact I can only think of one who specifically structured his list like this - Wisnewski. I'm not even sure I'd put Kessel in that list, as all he listed was the top teams in the league. Which when you're a scoring winger in your late 20s shouldn't really be a surprise.

Most players do not try and prevent a trade at all costs, but instead try to ensure that they will not end up in a location they do not want to be in.

I think you are dramatically over estimating team loyalty. Especially to a team that wants to trade him. It literally could be millions of dollars.

Anyone who has a job would know that if they were getting let go,
You take the severance (buyout) and go elsewhere to make the same money. It's simple economics. He could be supporting like his whole extended family, gettig ready for a divorce etc. We don't know.

I have no idea who is on his list. He may go to Calgary..... I think waiving for the expansion draft unless there is some gaurantee he won't be picked (possible I guess) wouldn't happen. Seems like wishful thinking.

Players pick locations based on

1.) money
2.) stability (family can stay in 1 spot)
3.) chance to win

How does waiving to move accomplish any of that.

 

[Legion34]

It's no more absurd then the idea that he'll force them to buy him out solely to make a little more money. He's currently made ~49 million over his career and is owed another 11 million on his current contract. The idea that he's going to screw over the only team he's played for for a couple million just doesn't make sense with everything else we've heard about him and with what Rutherford has said about the situation.

There's been very few instances of where we've heard players doing this - in fact I can only think of one who specifically structured his list like this - Wisnewski. I'm not even sure I'd put Kessel in that list, as all he listed was the top teams in the league. Which when you're a scoring winger in your late 20s shouldn't really be a surprise.

Most players do not try and prevent a trade at all costs, but instead try to ensure that they will not end up in a location they do not want to be in.

Also. You do realize he hated Boston, moved out of there as a 100 ot team to a lottery team and he and Chara can't stand each other.

If you honestly think that Kessel was open to going back to Boston and not blocking a trade.....

 

[Riptide]

Has there ever been leaks of MAF trade to list? Because based on Murray taking the #1 role last year in the playoffs, he and his agent could have easily already put together a list of teams that really limit Pitts options.

It would be really interesting to ACTUALLY know who he WOULD accept a trade to.

Keep in mind the dates (when MAF could in fact actually change his list). I honestly don't think that Fleury was looking to screw Pittsburgh in June/July 2016 - having to watch Murray backstop them to a cup or not. Which means his list at the time likely did not include every team that might be even remotely looking for a starter - if that's something he'd even do.

Pittsburgh had an "insider" here on HF who had (and leeked) inside info on the Pens up until sometime last summer. He said that his understanding was that (at the time of the 2016 draft) Calgary was not on Fleury's no trade list. However he's stopped leeking said info, and other than that, we've heard little from MAF, his agent, Rutherford or anyone else about who may or may not be on his list. Unfortunately.

I think you can guess at some of the teams, but ultimately, if Fleury wants to be a starter in the NHL next season, odds are he'll have to end up waiving to go somewhere - whether that's LV or a team currently on his NTC. He could refuse and force Pittsburgh to buy him out (as many adamantly claim he will). But that doesn't really change anything for him, because the list of teams looking for a starter doesn't change - those who were looking for a starter and need one, would still be looking and need a starter, and those who didn't need a starter, would still not need a starter. This is where the idea that he'll force a buyout seems to fail - and is something many overlook.

 

[Riptide]

Players pick locations based on

1.) money
2.) stability (family can stay in 1 spot)
3.) chance to win

How does waiving to move accomplish any of that.

I think you're off base on all of those reasons. Players pick locations on MANY different things... and outside of a few players who are looking to cash in, I suspect that money doesn't even come close to being in the top 3.

I think waiving for the expansion draft unless there is some gaurantee he won't be picked (possible I guess) wouldn't happen. Seems like wishful thinking.

Probably less wishful then those screaming from the hills that he'll force a buyout to screw the team over and become absolutely hated in the market over money.

Again, there's been zero indications from Rutherford that he's concerned about this. If there were, he has had ample opportunities to trade MAF - including to Calgary in June 2016 (for their 2016 2nd and their 2017 2nd - which was offered to PIT).

 

[Legion34]

I think you're off base on all of those reasons. Players pick locations on MANY different things... and outside of a few players who are looking to cash in, I suspect that money doesn't even come close to being in the top 3.

Ok what other reasons Than

Money, keeping family in one spot and chance to win are there?

If you were being let go, would you

A.) take the severence package and get a chance at a longer contract for more money or

B.) work for the same salary and hope you are still good/healthy in 2 years to sign a new contract?

 

[airbus220]

Fleury doesn't have to power to not agree to anything, his NTC isn't restrictive enough to do that.

Fleury has no power to "not agree to anything" because he doesn't have a full NTC.

My God hahaha Fleury would have to agree not to get protected in the expansion draft.

How can you forget this, you really think Fleury has no power hahaha

 

[Legion34]

I think you're off base on all of those reasons. Players pick locations on MANY different things... and outside of a few players who are looking to cash in, I suspect that money doesn't even come close to being in the top 3.



Probably less wishful then those screaming from the hills that he'll force a buyout to screw the team over and become absolutely hated in the market over money.

Again, there's been zero indications from Rutherford that he's concerned about this. If there were, he has had ample opportunities to trade MAF - including to Calgary in June 2016 (for their 2016 2nd and their 2017 2nd - which was offered to PIT).

I really don't think he cares about being hated in the market... not at least at the expense of millions.

king James, sundin, alfredsson. Etc

His agent would push for it, family....
I don't see it. I honestly think it's the fans not wanting to think he would take the buyout.

What if he gets hurt next year? Wouldn't you want a longer contract?

as a worker I have no qualms with my employer but I know exactly what I would do.

Maybe Fleury is a better person than me. But maybe you just really want this to be true

 

[Jacob]

Fleury will waive to go anywhere he can play, IMO.

 

[Riptide]

Ok what other reasons Than

Money, keeping family in one spot and chance to win are there?

Role and opportunity are a huge one. Along with the coach/staff/teammates and the style of play the team plays. The actual city itself also probably plays into things (do you want to deal with the cold, or heat or crazy media/fans, etc).

If Pittsburgh for example offered a UFA Bishop 7m a year this summer while MAF and Murray were on the roster, do you really think he'd accept it, even if it's the most money he was offered? Of course not. Someone will still give him something decent AND give him an opportunity to actually play games. Carolina signed J.Staal to the exact same contract that Pittsburgh offered him that he refused. He said in part that he wanted to go play with his brother, but the bigger reason he left was that he wanted a bigger offensive role that he knew he could never get in Pittsburgh with a healthy Crosby and Malkin ahead of him.

If you were being let go, would you

A.) take the severence package and get a chance at a longer contract for more money or

B.) work for the same salary and hope you are still good/healthy in 2 years to sign a new contract?

Fleury isn't "being let go". He has a contract, and will likely get moved to another location this summer. It's part of being a professional hockey player, where sometimes you get moved to a different city.

You also forgot:

C.) Get bought out and while getting a bigger contract and more money, not getting the #1 starter job that he wants.

Which considering that there's only 3 teams needing starters (assuming DAL signs Bishop), is a very real possibility. The guy will have made 60m at the end of this contract (~49m currently). Pretty sure he's more worried about being a starter next year then earning an extra million or two.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

My God, you can't read too.

Sure I would take Murray but I wouldn't want to keep him, I would trade him directly.

And that's the way Vegas will go. They will use the expansion draft as an auction an trade good players away. Why keep Murray.

For real? Why keep a 22-year-old Stanley Cup champion who plays a premium position and can be a building block for an expansion franchise through their first decade of existence?

I don't suspect Murray is going anywhere, but if he were headed to Vegas I am quite certain McPhee would be ecstatic with the improbable turn of events.

 

[Riptide]

as a worker I have no qualms with my employer but I know exactly what I would do.

Sorry, but this is not comparable at all. I get what you're trying to say with this, but the money involved changes so much. Fleury has the ability (as long as he wasn't a complete idiot with his money) to retire many times over. Which means he has the ability to prioritize many other things ahead of just trying to get the most money.

Working stiffs like us who earn 100k or so a year are in very different positions where an extra 20k or so means a lot more to us then a million or two would to a pro athlete.

 

[airbus220]

For real? Why keep a 22-year-old Stanley Cup champion who plays a premium position and can be a building block for an expansion franchise through their first decade of existence?

I don't suspect Murray is going anywhere, but if he were headed to Vegas I am quite certain McPhee would be ecstatic with the improbable turn of events.

See, you value him so much, other teams will too. At the end of the day his 3.75M are not cheap and after 3 years he could be more expensive. I'm not interested in expensive goalies and if I can get something now I take it now because prospects need time to develop.

 

[Riptide]

See, you value him so much, other teams will too. At the end of the day his 3.75M are not cheap and after 3 years he could be more expensive. I'm not interested in expensive goalies and if I can get something now I take it now because prospects need time to develop.

Am at a complete loss for words.