Value of: Marc-Andre Fleury

[WayneSid9987]

Lenny you're comparing a goalie who was waived in December to a starting G in game 7 of round 2 vs WSH.
And LV won't have the option to draft Murray.
LV wishes it were that simple.

 

[airbus220]

Lenny you're comparing a goalie who was waived in December to a starting G in game 7 of round 2 vs WSH.

You mean the goalie who let in 4 goals in game 5 and 5 goals in game 6.
I still don't understand why Vegas should do any favor, we might already have agreements in place with 7 other metro teams so that PIT might have to buy him out.
Fleury had a big advantage, he was well rested for some months and now struggles with the workload. I wouldn't want Halak either.

 

[#1GuinFan]

You mean the goalie who let in 4 goals in game 5 and 5 goals in game 6.
I still don't understand why Vegas should do any favor, we might already have agreements in place with 7 other metro teams so that PIT might have to buy him out.
Fleury had a big advantage, he was well rested for some months and now struggles with the workload. I wouldn't want Halak either.

You must be watching a different series than the rest of us.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

You mean the goalie who let in 4 goals in game 5 and 5 goals in game 6.
I still don't understand why Vegas should do any favor, we might already have agreements in place with 7 other metro teams so that PIT might have to buy him out.
Fleury had a big advantage, he was well rested for some months and now struggles with the workload. I wouldn't want Halak either.

So you're blaming Fleury for both those loses but not giving him credit for him winning those 3 games pretty much by himself?

Come on, I have criticized the guy a lot in the last few years, but he looks to have regained his form and is not to blame at all for his teams loses, even if they lose tonight it isn't because of Fleury.

Vegas would be making a great decision of bringing in a guy like him IMO, past Cup winner and also a guy who was around a bunch of young kids back in the day. He would be a great guy to have around a really young team IMO.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Grubauer is one of the most unproven goalies, he played 105 minutes consecutive games with .889 EVsave%. Do you really think Vegas couldn't find someone better more proven when his RFA status is also not good for Vegas. Better options are throwing millions at Oshie, or draft Orlov, or draft another skater.

As McPhee said, Vegas will use the expansion draft as an auction, which means he will trade good players away and will most likely get draft picks in return. Vegas will build through entry drafts. Why should an old Fleury who is not the future be any help in this case. Why do PIT a favor when Vegas can draft a skater or Murray. Even Murray I wouldn't want, I would trade him directly. Also with his 2 years left Fleury won't be easy to trade at the deadline, see Halak. DAL didn't want him, CAR didn't want him, Vegas won't need him too.

That doesn't answer my question. Who is this better player that you keep referencing but not actually saying? You keep saying "Vegas could do better" without actually saying who would be better.

 

[Tripod]

MAF doesn't choose to get bought out, the Pens choose that.

Fleury chooses who he can get traded to. All he has to do is choose teams with #1 goalies. Those teams are not trading for him.

It would leave Pitt with no option to buy him out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fleury chooses who he can get traded to. All he has to do is choose teams with #1 goalies. Those teams are not trading for him.

It would leave Pitt with no option to buy him out.

Fleury would have had to have made that decision last year, though. He can't force a buyout right now unless he planned on doing that last summer.

 

[Tripod]

Fleury can choose 18 teams he ca be traded to:

Montreal, Boston, Toronto, Tampa, Florida
Washington, CBus, NYR, Devils
Chicago, Minny, Preds, Stars(assuming Bishop signs)
Oilers, Sharks, Kings, Coyotes, Ducks

Choosing those 18 teams means Fleury is almost 100% getting bought out, or Pitt is taking a cap dump back to offload him.

 

[airbus220]

Fleury would have had to have made that decision last year

Fleury can always change his list, PIT only has to accept his new list and if they don't accept it don't expect Fleury to waive or do them any favor.

LOL Fleury can't change his list but PIT is asking him to waive hahaha what a gong show.

 

[Nakawick]

Fleury chooses who he can get traded to. All he has to do is choose teams with #1 goalies. Those teams are not trading for him.

It would leave Pitt with no option to buy him out.

I think you are letting your emotions as a rival can get the best of you.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fleury can always change his list, PIT only has to accept his new list and if they don't accept it don't expect Fleury to waive or do them any favor.

LOL Fleury can't change his list but PIT is asking him to waive hahaha what a gong show.

Again, no he can't. He can't officially change his No-Trade List. He can come to a handshake agreement with the Penguins where he'd waive for one of the teams on his NTC and ask the Penguins to not trade him to another team, but that's it. And if Fleury is going to try to screw over the Penguins by forcing them to buy him out, why would the Penguins let Fleury change his NTC to let him do that?

 

[tony d]

Got to think Calgary would make an offer for Fleury should he become available.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Again, no he can't. He can't officially change his No-Trade List. He can come to a handshake agreement with the Penguins where he'd waive for one of the teams on his NTC and ask the Penguins to not trade him to another team, but that's it. And if Fleury is going to try to screw over the Penguins by forcing them to buy him out, why would the Penguins let Fleury change his NTC to let him do that?

Lots of uninformed experts up in this ma'.

 

[DomBarr]

Got to think Calgary would make an offer for Fleury should he become available.

I think MAF is high on their list. However even the Penguin fans have to agree that now that Bishop is most likely going to sign with Dallas. That MAF value in a trade pre-ED is significantly reduced, there will is only Calgary that might be open to a pre-ED trade without a cap dump going back.

Thats the key, MAF's value in a trade that would occur before the ED is being reduced by the protected list requirements. Almost all the teams (I think its 25/29) have a goaltending asset that needs protecting that is either better than MAF (ie Dubnyk), younger with a ton of potential (ie Hellebuyck), have their own NMC (ie Lundqvist). I think that climbs to 28/29 if Pittsburgh does not want to take a bad contract back.

That said this is only if Pittsburgh wants/has to move him before the ED. If MAF has already agreed to waive then the pressure to trade him before the ED is gone.

 

[Tripod]

I think you are letting your emotions as a rival can get the best of you.

Not at all. In fact I would not be surprised if the Pens tried to work a deal with Vegas so they can keep Murray and MAF as a tandem. Mind you with Jarry looking great in the AHL, maybe not.

I just don't think it's cut and dry that MAF should allow himself to get traded to whoever Pitts wants.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Not at all. In fact I would not be surprised if the Pens tried to work a deal with Vegas so they can keep Murray and MAF as a tandem. Mind you with Jarry looking great in the AHL, maybe not.

I just don't think it's cut and dry that MAF should allow himself to get traded to whoever Pitts wants.

I don't think there's anything in the relationship between Fleury and the Pens that suggests the team would do anything against his wishes (outside of keeping the better goalie in Murray).

This is the same team that's so loyal to Kunitz that they've kept his corpse in the line-up for 2 years after his clinical death.

 

[Street Hawk]

I think MAF is high on their list. However even the Penguin fans have to agree that now that Bishop is most likely going to sign with Dallas. That MAF value in a trade pre-ED is significantly reduced, there will is only Calgary that might be open to a pre-ED trade without a cap dump going back.

Thats the key, MAF's value in a trade that would occur before the ED is being reduced by the protected list requirements. Almost all the teams (I think its 25/29) have a goaltending asset that needs protecting that is either better than MAF (ie Dubnyk), younger with a ton of potential (ie Hellebuyck), have their own NMC (ie Lundqvist). I think that climbs to 28/29 if Pittsburgh does not want to take a bad contract back.

That said this is only if Pittsburgh wants/has to move him before the ED. If MAF has already agreed to waive then the pressure to trade him before the ED is gone.

I just don't see the benefit to MAF to waive to go to Vegas. He becomes a UFA via buy out, then he could sign in Calgary, Philly, or NYI and be their starter. And get a new contract that could get him an additional year or two over his current deal. Calgary has no veteran goalies signed for next season. Philly could part with Neurvirth and go with MAF and Stolraz as their duo. NYI could go with MAF and Greiss as their duo. They'd either have to buyout Halak or send a draft pick to another team to get him off their books. And Philly and NYI are in the east, so much easier travel than Vegas or Calgary. Those teams would be more competitive than the Knights over the next 2 seasons.

MAF gave his list to the Pens back in June 2016. NHL has that on record as it was a requirement of his contract. If either side wants to have that list adjusted, the other party has to agree to the change.

 

[DomBarr]

I don't think there's anything in the relationship between Fleury and the Pens that suggests the team would do anything against his wishes (outside of keeping the better goalie in Murray).

This is the same team that's so loyal to Kunitz that they've kept his corpse in the line-up for 2 years after his clinical death.

I think both parties realize that its time to amicably part ways. Fleury so he can be a starter the Penguins so they can protect Murray and clear $5.75 M from their cap.

I think the penguins are going to do everything in their power to help Fleury land a starters role next year and achieve a reasonable return for him.
That return can be either Vegas taking him as opposed to another unprotected player if he waives or some sort of asset in return from a trade.
I just don't think that the trade return will include a 1st round pick especially now that Dallas has definitely targeted Bishop.

 

[Riptide]

Grubauer is one of the most unproven goalies, he played 105 minutes consecutive games with .889 EVsave%. Do you really think Vegas couldn't find someone better more proven when his RFA status is also not good for Vegas. Better options are throwing millions at Oshie, or draft Orlov, or draft another skater.

As McPhee said, Vegas will use the expansion draft as an auction, which means he will trade good players away and will most likely get draft picks in return. Vegas will build through entry drafts. Why should an old Fleury who is not the future be any help in this case. Why do PIT a favor when Vegas can draft a skater or Murray. Even Murray I wouldn't want, I would trade him directly. Also with his 2 years left Fleury won't be easy to trade at the deadline, see Halak. DAL didn't want him, CAR didn't want him, Vegas won't need him too.

So you don't want a proven goalie and you don't want an unproven goalie...

Please list these "better and more proven" goalies please. I'd love to poke holes in them just like we do most of the other inaccurate **** that's posted.

 

[Riptide]

Fleury can always change his list, PIT only has to accept his new list and if they don't accept it don't expect Fleury to waive or do them any favor.

LOL Fleury can't change his list but PIT is asking him to waive hahaha what a gong show.

The only "gong show" is the inaccurate **** you're posting.

Limited No Trade and Limited No Movement Clauses are set on July 1st (or some other clearly specified date every summer). Which means after that date has passed, Fleury cannot simply go and change the teams he'd accept a trade to - ie if Calgary wasn't on the list last week, he cannot go and add it to the list this week or next week.

What can be done however, is that Fleury can waive to go to any of the teams he previously said he wouldn't go to. Ie if Calgary was on the list last week, he can after further consideration decide that he will in fact accept a trade to Calgary and agree to waive his NTC to go there.

This should be a fairly simple concept to understand. Sadly some still can't grasp it.

 

[Legion34]

The only "gong show" is the inaccurate **** you're posting.

Limited No Trade and Limited No Movement Clauses are set on July 1st (or some other clearly specified date every summer). Which means after that date has passed, Fleury cannot simply go and change the teams he'd accept a trade to - ie if Calgary wasn't on the list last week, he cannot go and add it to the list this week or next week.

What can be done however, is that Fleury can waive to go to any of the teams he previously said he wouldn't go to. Ie if Calgary was on the list last week, he can after further consideration decide that he will in fact accept a trade to Calgary and agree to waive his NTC to go there.

This should be a fairly simple concept to understand. Sadly some still can't grasp it.

But who knows what team they are. I would bet that he picked teams to be available to that he wouldn't get traded to.

The point is control. You want a NMC/NTC. The team says only partial NMC. Doesn't mean that he wouldn't consent to that eventually or want to go, but you want to control where and when

Well then fine. I will consent to a trade to Montreal, philly, wash etc that he knows the pens wouldn't do.

Kessel put Boston on his list. Boston! Do you really think he wanted to go to Boston or that the bruins wanted him back? No. He put that there to gain control.

Who knows who Fleury put on the list. Even if not on list still may waive to trade. But if I were him I would try to take my 8 of 12 and get a 4 year contract to ride out my career.

We will see. But the idea that he will waive to go to an expansion team because he really likes the team that doesn't want him is absurd. It may be right, but man it makes no sense.

 

[Night Shift]

Fleury can always change his list, PIT only has to accept his new list and if they don't accept it don't expect Fleury to waive or do them any favor.

LOL Fleury can't change his list but PIT is asking him to waive hahaha what a gong show.

We hope Vegas takes care of Flower

 

[Draiskull]

Do whatever you want with him as long as you dont trade him to Flames.

-Oilers fan

 

[Riptide]

But who knows what team they are. I would bet that he picked teams to be available to that he wouldn't get traded to.

The point is control. You want a NMC/NTC. The team says only partial NMC. Doesn't mean that he wouldn't consent to that eventually or want to go, but you want to control where and when
<snip>
Who knows who Fleury put on the list. Even if not on list still may waive to trade. But if I were him I would try to take my 8 of 12 and get a 4 year contract to ride out my career.

We will see. But the idea that he will waive to go to an expansion team because he really likes the team that doesn't want him is absurd. It may be right, but man it makes no sense.

It's no more absurd then the idea that he'll force them to buy him out solely to make a little more money. He's currently made ~49 million over his career and is owed another 11 million on his current contract. The idea that he's going to screw over the only team he's played for for a couple million just doesn't make sense with everything else we've heard about him and with what Rutherford has said about the situation.

There's been very few instances of where we've heard players doing this - in fact I can only think of one who specifically structured his list like this - Wisnewski. I'm not even sure I'd put Kessel in that list, as all he listed was the top teams in the league. Which when you're a scoring winger in your late 20s shouldn't really be a surprise.

Most players do not try and prevent a trade at all costs, but instead try to ensure that they will not end up in a location they do not want to be in.

 

[WhatWhat]

Grubauer is one of the most unproven goalies, he played 105 minutes consecutive games with .889 EVsave%. Do you really think Vegas couldn't find someone better more proven when his RFA status is also not good for Vegas. Better options are throwing millions at Oshie, or draft Orlov, or draft another skater.

As McPhee said, Vegas will use the expansion draft as an auction, which means he will trade good players away and will most likely get draft picks in return. Vegas will build through entry drafts. Why should an old Fleury who is not the future be any help in this case. Why do PIT a favor when Vegas can draft a skater or Murray. Even Murray I wouldn't want, I would trade him directly. Also with his 2 years left Fleury won't be easy to trade at the deadline, see Halak. DAL didn't want him, CAR didn't want him, Vegas won't need him too.

You wouldn't take Murray? Are you insane?