Confirmed with Link: Maple Leafs & AGM Mark Hunter Part Ways, Effective Immediately

[diceman934]

oh ya.. NHL players dont have will and desire. Being the best of the best and the 0.0000000001%, they dont have that will, desire, heart, etc that you want to make up to compete. lolll.

No not all do...sorry if that bothers you

 

[93LEAFS]

Those two tweets weren't really about who's feeding information to who, which I completely agree is coming from the Dubas side of the organization to Mirtle, more who Simmons is inclined to side with

I think both those reporters are biased and go into there articles with that belief

Simmons opinions are going to be pro Hunter and Dubas facts in Mirtle articles are going to be extremely favorable to Dubas like the McLeod Gauthier thing which was ridiculous, and I don't really like McLeod

Oh, I have no intention of defending Simmons. He's an absolute hack.

 

[Kiwi]

Oh, I have no intention of defending Simmons. He's an absolute hack.

He is, I like reading the Athletic articles (i'm a Leafs nut and read everything i can related to them) but Mirtle is so pro Dubas I've developed a lot of scepticism about him as well

 

[93LEAFS]

He is, I like reading the Athletic articles (i'm a Leafs nut and read everything i can related to them) but Mirtle is so pro Dubas I've developed a lot of scepticism about him as well

Mirtle has insight, but he has clear biases and I've suspected for a long time (since the info on the 2015 draft was leaked) that Dubas or someone very close to him is a source.

 

[LeafChief]

He is, I like reading the Athletic articles (i'm a Leafs nut and read everything i can related to them) but Mirtle is so pro Dubas I've developed a lot of scepticism about him as well

Simmons is so incredibly butt-hurt that he hasn't been asked/recruited to the Athletic while most of his colleagues have.

He has tweeted about it and it's so obvious that it hurts him.

 

[Kiwi]

Mirtle has insight, but he has clear biases and I've suspected for a long time (since the info on the 2015 draft was leaked) that Dubas or someone very close to him is a source.

I don't like that stuff getting out, running a tight ship benefits the team in the long run and leaking information about how you operate is just dumb

I know Mirtle and Dubas did some of those analytics conferences together so they've got a relationship together

 

[Menzinger]

Meh

Simmons has his guy in Hunter and Mirtle and the Athletic are big Dubas backers which isn't really surprising since Simmons is more "old school" and Mirtle is more new age analytics driven

It kind of reminds me of political media quite honestly, reporters giving guys friendly coverage for information and pushing the guys that tend to favour there own view on how things should be done

Everybody will “play the game” to some degree.

At least when it comes to the Athletic writers they’ve always been pretty transparent about their views - big into stats analysis, likeling “forward thinker” types. So it’s natural they’re drawn to a guy like Dubas. And while I’m not sure if they have Dubas himself as a source, they probably talk to one or two of the guys in the Leafs stats department.

With Simmons I don’t think he has the same sort of transparency in his track record so I have a harder time giving him benefit of the doubt.

 

[Kiwi]

Everybody will “play the game” to some degree.

At least when it comes to the Athletic writers they’ve always been pretty transparent about their views - big into stats analysis, likeling “forward thinker” types. So it’s natural they’re drawn to a guy like Dubas. And while I’m not sure if they have Dubas himself as a source, they probably talk to one or two of the guys in the Leafs stats department.

With Simmons I don’t think he has the same sort of transparency in his track record so I have a harder time giving him benefit of the doubt.

I liked the Dubas hire and want more analytics used because I think there not being used to there full extent in hockey but it's pretty clear Mirtle is being leaked information and it's being used to show Dubas in a very favourable light (the draft story being an example) so while I have zero respect for Simmons I'm not giving Mirtle a pass on something that blatant either

 

[Superstar]

As insufferable as Mess' love for Barzal can certainly be, no one can accuse them of retrospect and hindsight as far as Barzal is concerned - They were just as big a fan of them then, before the Draft, as they are now after Barzal's rookie season.

It's less an instance of hindsight and more someone being unable to stop talking about how "right" they were. (Given that the 2015 class is still very much undeveloped, I think it's too early to say definitively who will be better than who - Mess obviously would've been happier with Barzal, while most Leafs fans are, not surprisingly, thrilled with the Marner selection thus far.)

Barzal's rookie season is a year later than Marner's while being almost exactly the same age...Marner is literally only 21 days older than Barzal...to be blunt, Barzal couldn't hack it in the NHL during Marner's rookie campaign...does Mess ever bring that up in his infatuation with Barzal? Marner is the more proven and better NHL player already.

 

[93LEAFS]

Everybody will “play the game” to some degree.

At least when it comes to the Athletic writers they’ve always been pretty transparent about their views - big into stats analysis, likeling “forward thinker” types. So it’s natural they’re drawn to a guy like Dubas. And while I’m not sure if they have Dubas himself as a source, they probably talk to one or two of the guys in the Leafs stats department.

With Simmons I don’t think he has the same sort of transparency in his track record so I have a harder time giving him benefit of the doubt.

To be honest, I think Lou worked in such a secondary market (Devils are what, the 10th most important team in the NYC area?), and had such a level of respect by the time he got to Toronto he was the one exception to the rule. McKenzie and Friedman were happy if they just got the first tidbit of a small detail (either term/money or conditions), and they couldn't bully him by torching him during down spells. Very few people have this freedom in a Canadian market. If you aren't giving the big insiders there scoops and your team is on a downturn, they'll light you up every intermission.

 

[KPower]

I'm sure Lou has Hunter's draft list on his table in Long Island.

 

[Knightnight]

Barzal's rookie season is a year later than Marner's while being almost exactly the same age...Marner is literally only 21 days older than Barzal...to be blunt, Barzal couldn't hack it in the NHL during Marner's rookie campaign...does Mess ever bring that up in his infatuation with Barzal? Marner is the more proven and better NHL player already.

Just imagine if Barzal had not been invisble at the worlds what mess Mess would be spilling. I mean 7 points at the tournament on big ice with no goals. 3 points vs Korea. Yikes.
Marner dominated the tournament fro the 4th line last year. You all know he would be in every Marner thread about Barzals performance, instead crickets.

 

[LeafFever]

Barzal never had to play D and got over 1:30 more TOI per game than Marner. Marner's TOI last season sucked and her still got 69 points. In fact only Laine had similar production and relative poor TOI. No one else in the NHL.
Ypu have to look at all situations. Barzal never scores that many points with Babs as his coach.

 

[IPS]

True enough, gotta give Mess credit here - I do remember him hyping Barzal before the draft and he looked amazing last season. I know a lot of people have been saying yeah well NYI doesn't play D and so on but I think a lot of that is due to people wanting to pump our guys. I was super impressed when I saw him play, I think Barzal is amazing.

PS - not saying I'd rather have him than Marner, that's not the point here at all.

Easy now....

Add context. Islanders played a run and gun no defense style of system that is notorious for inflating player's production. And this is on top of them running a phenomenal PP1 unit. Not trying to take anything away from Barzal, but that system was custom-tailored for his style of play - but credit to him, he ran with it and put up a McDavid-like PPG average in his rookie year.

 

[IPS]

Barzal never had to play D and got over 1:30 more TOI per game than Marner. Marner's TOI last season sucked and her still got 69 points. In fact only Laine had similar production and relative poor TOI. No one else in the NHL.
Ypu have to look at all situations. Barzal never scores that many points with Babs as his coach.

And there's another important piece of context.

I don't expect Mess to factor this is in as he's honestly more of a homer to his opinions than anything else including being a Leafs fan.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Barzal never had to play D and got over 1:30 more TOI per game than Marner. Marner's TOI last season sucked and her still got 69 points. In fact only Laine had similar production and relative poor TOI. No one else in the NHL.
Ypu have to look at all situations. Barzal never scores that many points with Babs as his coach.

I see a lot of posts about Barzal versus Marner. Could they not both be very good young players? Why is there such a great need to build one up while tearing the other guy down? I see very talented young players when I watch both Marner and Barzal. Is that not just good enough that we could leave it there?

 

[LeafFever]

Leaf fans screamed for Marner to get more TOI and better linemates. The second that occurs he goes on a 100+ point pace and is one of the best offensive players in the NHL.
And marner was terrific ion the playoffs. There is so much more to his game. We are just scratching the surface.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Add context. Islanders played a run and gun no defense style of system that is notorious for inflating player's production.

Yeah, I'm going to agree here. The Islanders system might just be the most offensive-inclined, risk-taking system that I've seen. I'm not even sure I'd call it much of a system, just feels like everybody has a constant green light.

Barzal is an amazing offensive talent though.

 

[Mess]

Easy now....

Add context. Islanders played a run and gun no defense style of system that is notorious for inflating player's production. And this is on top of them running a phenomenal PP1 unit. Not trying to take anything away from Barzal, but that system was custom-tailored for his style of play - but credit to him, he ran with it and put up a McDavid-like PPG average in his rookie year.

Only 2 players OV, Crosby and Malkin matched him in the last 20+ years (1995-96 - 2017-18 Salary Cap Era) in their rookie seasons put up more points than Matty Barzal.

Scoring	Goals
Rk	Player	PTS	To	Pos	G	A	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	S	S%	SHFT	TOI
1	Alex Ovechkin	106	2006	LW	52	54	2	52	28	21	3	5	425	12.2	1959	1751:22
2	Sidney Crosby	102	2006	C	39	63	-1	110	23	16	0	5	278	14.0	1957	1630:16
3	Evgeni Malkin	85	2007	C	33	52	2	80	17	16	0	6	242	13.6	1744	1494:24
4	Mathew Barzal	85	2018	C	22	63	1	30	17	5	0	4	170	12.9	1582	1456:47
5	Paul Stastny	78	2007	C	28	50	4	42	17	11	0	6	185	15.1	2094	1490:10
6	Artemi Panarin	77	2016	LW	30	47	8	32	22	8	0	7	187	16.0	1820	1481:38
7	Patrick Kane	72	2008	RW	21	51	-5	52	14	7	0	4	191	11.0	1838	1505:59
8	Scott Gomez	70	2000	C	19	51	14	78	12	7	0	1	204	9.3	1442	1340:31
9	Auston Matthews	69	2017	C	40	29	2	14	32	8	0	8	279	14.3	1894	1445:45
10	Brad Boyes	69	2006	RW	26	43	11	30	18	8	0	3	203	12.8	1727	1293:16

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Player Game Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

If Leafs were running Matthews and Barzal as 2 X PPG centres (both top 10 best rookie seasons in past 2 decades) & back to back Calder winners and Kadri right now Leafs strength down the middle might be among the best teams in the NHL.

Be interesting to see what happens to NYI's offense next year with Lou Lam now in charge.

Marner appears capable to also someday become > PPG player in the right situation as long as he becomes more consistent and not have too big highs and lows.

 

[IPS]

Only 2 players OV, Crosby and Malkin matched in the last 20+ years (1995-96 - 2017-18 Salary Cap Era) in their rookie seasons put up more points than Matty Barzal.

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http://hkref.com/tiny/SOEYF

If Leafs were running Matthews and Barzal as 2 X PPG centres (both top 10 best rookie seasons in 2 decades) and Kadri right now Leafs strength down the middle might be among the best teams in the NHL.

Be interesting to see what happens to NYI's offense next year with Lou Lam now in charge.

You love to worship Babcock's coaching abilities.

Answer honestly - Do you think Barzal puts up those kinds of numbers under Babcock as opposed to the pure run and gun style that he played with the Islanders under?

 

[hockeywiz542]

SIMMONS SAYS: The futures of Trotz, Colangelo, Happ and Donaldson all in question

Mark Hunter will have at least two options available when mid-July hits and he’s available to join another NHL team. Lamoriello has interest in him with the Islanders. But word around now is that Detroit GM Ken Holland would be able to offer Hunter the same job he had in Toronto with a promise of being the next GM of the Red Wings. Holland, apparently, has serious interest in being involved with the Seattle expansion team, which would open the door for Hunter.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Only 2 players OV, Crosby and Malkin

Hmm....

 

[crump]

Hunter News..... Enjoying farming and waiting to see who calls. That is all.
Mark Hunter speaks out after Leafs exit: 'I'm feeling good'

 

[Cor]

About what I expected. Go back to the farm, do some work with the Knights, and if anyone comes calling, he'll listen.

 

[Morbo]

Marner is just as good as Barzal.

And we already have a #2 centre with back to back 30 goal seasons that can actually handle defensive assignments, too.