Lundqvist, Miller, Toivonen, Niitymaki

[Buffalo87]

I also get the feeling that you have not seen Toivonen play. Niittymaki ranks way ahead of him currently. We're talking about Flyers' starter and Bruins' 2nd-3rd goalie here.

I would still rank Niittymaki even better than Miller. "Nitty" is a AHL champion and had great olympic run. Miller is sharing the Sabres crease with Biron. I must however agree that Lundqvist ranks at the top on those four.

....Miller has started 17 of the last 21 sabres games, I wouldn't exactly consider that sharing the crease.

 

[Twist and Shout]

Wow, a lot of you guys really like Toivonen. He's not even in the same league as Lundqvist, sorry.

Uhh, how much have you watched Toivonen?

Hannu will end up better than Lundqvist and be a Top 3 goalie in the NHL.

 

[Buffalo87]

Uhh, how much have you watched Toivonen?

Hannu will end up better than Lundqvist and be a Top 3 goalie in the NHL.

I never said Toivonen wasn't a good goalie, he's a great goalie. There's no doubt that he'll be a tremendous NHL goalie. However, I don't think he'll be as good as Lundqvist.

 

[BuppY]

All 4 are great. As a Leaf fan Im jealous.

 

[The Sanchise]

It is a complete joke that you can say Toivonen will be better than Lundy. And to say Miller is not our starter. HAHAHA I guess that is why he has played 90 percent of our games this year while he was not injured. 10 of first 11, and tons more when he came back, If anyone isn't a clear starter it is Nittymaki who doesn't even compare to Miller skill wise.

The true rankings of the best young/rookie goalies are

Lundqvist
Miller
Nittymaki and Lehtonen
Toivonen (i have never seen anybody more overrated in my life, he isn't even going to be the starter next year, thomas will, and he will split time with raycroft)

 

[The Sanchise]

All 4 are great. As a Leaf fan Im jealous.

Don't be jealous, you have tellqvist who statistically up there with Toivonen. Just a bit more of a gaa at .11 and sv% is .08 less but has played 2 more games has 2 so to toivonens 1 and has international experience

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

It is a complete joke that you can say Toivonen will be better than Lundy.

That's why it's call OPINION.

I think your OPINION that Toivonen will split starts with Thomas next year is absolutely incorrect. I expect that HT will be the starter, and health allowing, he will get 60'ish starts next year. I expect that Raycroft is going to get moved here in the off-season. Any opinions from Bruins fans on what the Bruins goaltending situation is going to look like next year?

A case can be made that Lundquist is two years older than Toivonen, and already has plays the mental part of the game at an extremely high level. If Toivonen continues to develop his game it is possible that he will surpass Lundquist, although that's anything but guaranteed.

 

[Jumbo*]

1. Lundqvist

2. Miller
3. Toivonen
4. Nittymaki

 

[The Sanchise]

That's why it's call OPINION.

I think your OPINION that Toivonen will split starts with Thomas next year is absolutely incorrect. I expect that HT will be the starter, and health allowing, he will get 60'ish starts next year. I expect that Raycroft is going to get moved here in the off-season. Any opinions from Bruins fans on what the Bruins goaltending situation is going to look like next year?

A case can be made that Lundquist is two years older than Toivonen, and already has plays the mental part of the game at an extremely high level. If Toivonen continues to develop his game it is possible that he will surpass Lundquist, although that's anything but guaranteed.

Ok and your telling me the Bruins gave thomas a three year deal worth what 9 mil, about 3 mil a year to play 20 some odd games. Common now Thomas is playing incredible for the bruins and if it weren't for him Bruins would have a top 5 pick this year. If anything Toivonen gets split time with Thomas than factor in possible injuries but common 60 games or more. Raycroft was supposed to be the bruins first wave of the future after his rookie campaign and he spireled down the drainand now Toivonen is god. I will believe these 60 games and top 3 NHL goalie when I see it and trust me I won't hold my breath.
For Toivonen to be a top goalie he will have to surpass these guys not in any particular order, I'm going to go with guys who have at least 6 or more years in the league

Luongo
Lundqvist
Miller
Lehtonen
Giguere
Fernandez
Kiprusoff
Turco
Theodore
Dipietro
Gerber
Nabokov
Legace
Brodeur
Khabibulin

I didn't throw in Fleury, Emery or Tellqvist but they could eventually be on the list of goalies with 8 years or more left in the tank and are better than Toivonen

 

[BleedBruins]

Ok and your telling me the Bruins gave thomas a three year deal worth what 9 mil, about 3 mil a year to play 20 some odd games. Common now Thomas is playing incredible for the bruins and if it weren't for him Bruins would have a top 5 pick this year. If anything Toivonen gets split time with Thomas than factor in possible injuries but common 60 games or more. Raycroft was supposed to be the bruins first wave of the future after his rookie campaign and he spireled down the drainand now Toivonen is god. I will believe these 60 games and top 3 NHL goalie when I see it and trust me I won't hold my breath.
For Toivonen to be a top goalie he will have to surpass these guys not in any particular order, I'm going to go with guys who have at least 6 or more years in the league

Luongo
Lundqvist
Miller
Lehtonen
Giguere
Fernandez
Kiprusoff
Turco
Theodore
Dipietro
Gerber
Nabokov
Legace
Brodeur
Khabibulin

I didn't throw in Fleury, Emery or Tellqvist but they could eventually be on the list of goalies with 8 years or more left in the tank and are better than Toivonen

There are facts and there are opinions.
Thomas got about $3.1 mill over three years, not $9 mill over three. (fact)

He has done a great job for the Bruins and we're still closing on a top 5 pick....(fact)

Toivenen was pretty damn good for a rookie before he was hurt and I'm optimistic he improves his positioning and becomes much better than Thomas and most on your list in time. (opinion)

I expect it to take him several years to be consistently good (opinion)

Its a controversial subject, but most of its just opinion anyway.

 

[hannes_ko]

It is a complete joke that you can say Toivonen will be better than Lundy. And to say Miller is not our starter. HAHAHA I guess that is why he has played 90 percent of our games this year while he was not injured. 10 of first 11, and tons more when he came back, If anyone isn't a clear starter it is Nittymaki who doesn't even compare to Miller skill wise.

By accident I have read your opinions in two different threads. On both you have ranked Finnish players. Is it accident, that in both of them you rank Sabres players very differently than they are usually ranked or try to downgrade palyers who play for Sabres rivalry teams?

Toni Lydman is not equal to Joni Pitkänen. Lydman is one of my favourite players and I have been watching him since he still played in Lahti about ten years ago.

Toivonen was number one goalie before the injury. And anyone who has been watching Tim Thomas last five years knows he is one of the better goalies in the game. Just because he was not NHL goalie does not mean he was good. Lundqvist was not NHL goalie last year. So Thomas being numeber one is not an indication that Toivonen can't play as a number one goalie. Infact Thomas plays only because of Toivonen ankle.

Toivonen is not overrated. Maybe some people in this board do overrate him but they are minority.

Maybe Miller is the god you try to convince us him to be. But usually when a player is praised highly I wait for someone that's not fan of his team before I buy that. Or watch with my own eyes.

I just have feeling you are trying to do PR for Sabres players but you are failing miserably. When players are good enough, people will notice. You don't have to fix facts.

 

[The Sanchise]

By accident I have read your opinions in two different threads. On both you have ranked Finnish players. Is it accident, that in both of them you rank Sabres players very differently than they are usually ranked or try to downgrade palyers who play for Sabres rivalry teams?

Toni Lydman is not equal to Joni Pitkänen. Lydman is one of my favourite players and I have been watching him since he still played in Lahti about ten years ago.

Toivonen was number one goalie before the injury. And anyone who has been watching Tim Thomas last five years knows he is one of the better goalies in the game. Just because he was not NHL goalie does not mean he was good. Lundqvist was not NHL goalie last year. So Thomas being numeber one is not an indication that Toivonen can't play as a number one goalie. Infact Thomas plays only because of Toivonen ankle.

Toivonen is not overrated. Maybe some people in this board do overrate him but they are minority.

Maybe Miller is the god you try to convince us him to be. But usually when a player is praised highly I wait for someone that's not fan of his team before I buy that. Or watch with my own eyes.

I just have feeling you are trying to do PR for Sabres players but you are failing miserably. When players are good enough, people will notice. You don't have to fix facts.

I'm not fixing facts or doing PR for Buffalo, Miller isn't the only one I rate better than Toivonen, KAri is , Lundy is and a lot of veteran goalies are. FACT

You can have all the opinions you want, i'm not much of an opinion guy i go by what matters and thats playing and statistics. You can have all the potential to do whatever you want but if you don't do it than that is a whole other thing.

Also you can't compare goalies like Miller, Lehtonen, Lundqvist to Toivonen because these guys are already exceeding their potential and playing absolutely awesome.

 

[Twist and Shout]

Ok and your telling me the Bruins gave thomas a three year deal worth what 9 mil, about 3 mil a year to play 20 some odd games.

Pretty sure Boston gave Thomas about 1 million per year.

 

[Sampe]

For Toivonen to be a top goalie he will have to surpass these guys not in any particular order, I'm going to go with guys who have at least 6 or more years in the league

...

In order to surpass Theodore, Nabokov and Khabibulin, Toivonen would first have to start playing worse than them. Hannu also happens to be younger than anyone on your list (unless we count Fleury who is a whoppin' 6 months younger).

 

[Twist and Shout]

Also you can't compare goalies like Miller, Lehtonen, Lundqvist to Toivonen because these guys are already exceeding their potential and playing absolutely awesome.

You can when you're comparing their potential.

Right now, Miller, Lehtonen, and Lundqvist are all playing better than Toivonen and Toivonen is on IR. Lehtonen has more potential than Toivonen. Miller and Lundqvist are both older and Hannu has the physical gifts to easily be better than them.

I am not a fan of Boston, I am a fan of Hannu and I've been a fan of his since juniors (even though I live in Canada) because I see what a special talent he is.

On a side note . . that's no slight to Lundqvist. He's an exceptional goalie, and will be a top goalie in the NHL for a long time. However, Hannu has the tools and has a good chance of being better.

 

[Buffalo87]

Being a Sabres fan I may be biased and I'm not trying to do "PR for Sabres players". But Miller is the real deal, he is a very very good goalie. However, I know Toivonen has tremendous potential. Do I see Toivonen as the better goalie right now? No, do I see Toivonen possibly passing Miller in the future? It's definitly a possibility but I just don't see him ever passing Lundqvist.

 

[peacepipe]

i would say lundqvist is the best right now but with nitty getting mvp of the olympics shows he has good potential in being one of the top goalies in the next couple of years

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Ok and your telling me the Bruins gave thomas a three year deal worth what 9 mil, about 3 mil a year to play 20 some odd games. Common now Thomas is playing incredible for the bruins and if it weren't for him Bruins would have a top 5 pick this year. If anything Toivonen gets split time with Thomas than factor in possible injuries but common 60 games or more. Raycroft was supposed to be the bruins first wave of the future after his rookie campaign and he spireled down the drainand now Toivonen is god. I will believe these 60 games and top 3 NHL goalie when I see it and trust me I won't hold my breath.
For Toivonen to be a top goalie he will have to surpass these guys not in any particular order, I'm going to go with guys who have at least 6 or more years in the league

Luongo
Lundqvist
Miller
Lehtonen
Giguere
Fernandez
Kiprusoff
Turco
Theodore
Dipietro
Gerber
Nabokov
Legace
Brodeur
Khabibulin

I didn't throw in Fleury, Emery or Tellqvist but they could eventually be on the list of goalies with 8 years or more left in the tank and are better than Toivonen

You don't understand the difference between FACTS and OPINIONS

Fact: Toivonen has played in all of 20 NHL games. No one can be certain how he will turn out.

Fact: Toivonen's statistics this year are very favorable to almost everyone on that list.

Fact: He put up some VERY good numbers playing behind a team that was absolutely in disarray. Of course, it was still only 20 games.

Fact: Toivonen is one of the youngest goalies playing right now in the NHL. That does not necessarily mean that he will continue developing, but it is definetely possible.

Fact: The publications (and many posters here) expected Toivonen to take the job from Raycroft relatively quickly. This process was accelerated by Raycroft melting down.

Opinion: Toivonen has shown a ton of potential during very limited action to date. He deserves to be included in the great young goaltending group of Lundquist, Miller, Lehtonen, and Fleury (among others). They all have the skills to be a franchise goalies and top guys in the NHL. Of course, that is far from assured as there are a ton of talented players that never realize their potential and make it in the NHL.

Opinion: I think it is hard to overstate how difficult a position that Toivonen was in for the Bruins. The team was absolutely in free-fall when he started getting starts, and he helped to stop the bleeding.

It's funny to me that you consider Miller to be a much more proven NHL goalie as he's only played in 58 career NHL games.

 

[Puck Dogg]

All 4 are great. As a Leaf fan Im jealous.

..and for no reason. Tellqvist is a decent goalie and expectations are high on Pogge and Rask.

Toivonen seems to be bit overrated in this thread. He does not rank same class with Lundqvist or Lehtonen at the moment, and I speak from experience. He has good size and reflexes, but don't expect him to make a major breakthrough in near future (at least for the next two or three seasons). Without putting the guy down or anything, he resembles me a lot to Vesa Toskala at the moment. Of course, he has plenty of time and loads of potential (but so did Toskala..)

 

[Sampe]

..and for no reason. Tellqvist is a decent goalie and expectations are high on Pogge and Rask.

Toivonen seems to be bit overrated in this thread. He does not rank same class with Lundqvist or Lehtonen at the moment, and I speak from experience. He has good size and reflexes, but don't expect him to make a major breakthrough in near future (at least for the next two or three seasons). Without putting the guy down or anything, he resembles me a lot to Vesa Toskala at the moment. Of course, he has plenty of time and loads of potential (but so did Toskala..)

Call me crazy, but a 21-year-old, 6'2 version of today's Vesa Toskala sounds like a future franchise goalie to me.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Ok and your telling me the Bruins gave thomas a three year deal worth what 9 mil, about 3 mil a year to play 20 some odd games.

I stopped reading there. If you want to be taken seriously, get your facts straight.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Raycroft was supposed to be the bruins first wave of the future after his rookie campaign and he spireled down the drainand now Toivonen is god.

I acutally decided to read your "post" and found this hilarious.

Even after Raycrofts magical season, MANY Bruins fans knew that Toivonen had more potential than Raycroft and the Bruins would have to make a decision in the near future. There were polls and threads about when Toivonen would take over as the starter before the season began.

Oh, but I'd expect a Sabres fan to know more about this.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

I'm not fixing facts or doing PR for Buffalo, Miller isn't the only one I rate better than Toivonen, KAri is , Lundy is and a lot of veteran goalies are. FACT

You can have all the opinions you want, i'm not much of an opinion guy i go by what matters and thats playing and statistics. You can have all the potential to do whatever you want but if you don't do it than that is a whole other thing.

Also you can't compare goalies like Miller, Lehtonen, Lundqvist to Toivonen because these guys are already exceeding their potential and playing absolutely awesome.

Exceeding their potential? Lehtonen's potenital is to be one of the three best goalies in the league. I'm pretty sure he is not there yet....

 

[Freke348]

Ok and your telling me the Bruins gave thomas a three year deal worth what 9 mil, about 3 mil a year to play 20 some odd games.

Thomas will get 1.1 mil per year. They gave him a total of 3.3 mil over 3 years.

 

[The Sanchise]

Ahh what a good night at work..lol

Well anyways back to what I started, my point is you can't judge goalies on opinion or "potential", rather you judge them on stats, their teams success with them, and their play.

That is exactly what I am doing and all Lundqvist, Miller, and Lehtonen are better than Toivonen.