Line combinations??

[JacketsDavid]

Again just for clarification. Isn't development best done prior to a player's arrival at the NHL level?

Yes but the output you're measuring is success in the NHL. Not how well you can win in Cleveland.

 

[JacketsDavid]

To me, this just feels like you are dancing on that man's grave. I know it's just you expressing you opinion, but ......

It's just.......ewwwwww.

And anyway....Doug's been gone about a decade. We know he drafted and developed terrible, and had an ego the size of King Kong, and wasn't that good at his job, and was a terrible talent judge, and a control freak.

At what point is it just time to let it go?

Not dancing on his grave.
I respect the man for what he did for the City and for his company (Worthington Steel). he left a legacy that few will ever match.

I'll likely let it go when the franchise overcomes it.

 

[Old Guy]

Not dancing on his grave.

You didn't read. I said it feels that way TO ME!
By the mere fact you said it, we knew you were okay with it.

As for the letting go...........therapy does help some folks.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Yes but the output you're measuring is success in the NHL. Not how well you can win in Cleveland.

Have no idea what you're saying.

I asked this.

You mean developing players at the NHL level, or proof of good development that is now at the NHL level?

You replied this.

Developing players at NHL level.

Unless you're saying the only way to measure whether you've begun developing young players properly is whether or not your team wins at the NHL level.

 

[Monk]

Unless you're saying the only way to measure whether you've begun developing young players properly is whether or not your team wins at the NHL level.

That's how I've interpreted it. Silly, but if that's his criteria then so be it.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Developing players and drafting quality talent are entirely intertwined in my mind. If you take a guy that has no business having a professional contract and can develop him into a 4th line AHL winger that is nice, but of little value to the ultimate goal of winning in the NHL. I think ultimately the problem here has been much more about drafting bad players rather than not developing them.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Developing players and drafting quality talent are entirely intertwined in my mind. If you take a guy that has no business having a professional contract and can develop him into a 4th line AHL winger that is nice, but of little value to the ultimate goal of winning in the NHL. I think ultimately the problem here has been much more about drafting bad players rather than not developing them.

Spot on. Dubois is said to have massive heart. Years past we would have taken the Hockey News draft rankings and picked JP. From a fans point of view we appear to be picking towards character, leadership & heart. We shall see. Emphasis on goalies and blue line hasn't hurt our current team either. Love me some ZW

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

When I think of the current Finnish NHLers I cannot see anyone of them really being developed or shaped in any positive manner at least in terms of player profile. Joel Armia in NHLWAM came off sounding depressed while riding the AHL bus for over hundred games after 18, 19 and 20 SM-liiga regular season splashes. Heavy summer practice is the only positive I see.

Olli "Chief" Jokinen under "Iron" Mike Keenan is the only example of what I could think of in terms of development but I think the right words would be those of maximize and surroundings, not development as in teaching as OJ's role was the same that Chief Jokinen held in HIFK and Finnish U-20 gold WJC gang before his departure to Los Angeles Kings.

 

[Viqsi]

That's how I've interpreted it. Silly, but if that's his criteria then so be it.

His criteria in all things Blue Jackets seems to be limited to "The team isn't winning, therefore EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE SUCKS."

 

[Monk]

His criteria in all things Blue Jackets seems to be limited to "The team isn't winning, therefore EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE SUCKS."

Right, just like a bunch of other people on here. That does annoy me immensely, but clearly not to the extent that it drives me away from here.

 

[major major]

Right, just like a bunch of other people on here. That does annoy me immensely, but clearly not to the extent that it drives me away from here.

I think it's a fairly simple logical error.

If a team needs x number of things to not suck in order to win, it doesn't mean that if the team doesn't win that all x of those things suck.

But that's the way a large part of this board operates. "The record speaks for itself". No, no it doesn't.

 

[Monk]

I think it's a fairly simple logical error.

If a team needs x number of things to not suck in order to win, it doesn't mean that if the team doesn't win that all x of those things suck.

But that's the way a large part of this board operates. "The record speaks for itself". No, no it doesn't.

Yeah, I call those the "binary" folks. They're going to find something to complain about until the CBJ wins the Stanley Cup. And even, there will be something...

 

[EspenK]

Yeah, I call those the "binary" folks. They're going to find something to complain about until the CBJ wins the Stanley Cup. And even, there will be something...

I agree. Based on the franchise's history to date I don't understand why fans complain about everything.

 

[Viqsi]

I agree. Based on the franchise's history to date I don't understand why fans complain about everything.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Have no idea what you're saying.

I asked this.



You replied this.



Unless you're saying the only way to measure whether you've begun developing young players properly is whether or not your team wins at the NHL level.

I originally responded to this:
"Player development since JD and Jarmo were brought in has been good if not great."

All I've taken away from this is we now do the same thing that most other teams do (not rushing every 1st round pick to the NHL), yet most of you argue that player development is "good if not great".

That's fine. Give everyone a trophy.

In my mind (which you can't understand) I would like to see proof on how anyone says we are good, if not great a player development. I don't see it, apparently you do.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I originally responded to this:
"Player development since JD and Jarmo were brought in has been good if not great."

All I've taken away from this is we now do the same thing that most other teams do (not rushing every 1st round pick to the NHL), yet most of you argue that player development is "good if not great".

That's fine. Give everyone a trophy.

In my mind (which you can't understand) I would like to see proof on how anyone says we are good, if not great a player development. I don't see it, apparently you do.

I haven't made any sort of statement of my opinion of player development. I'm asking questions, trying to understand your criteria.

In this post

I can buy that - what I'm arguing is saying our player development is good/great compared to other NHL franchises.

I'm binary when it comes to folks saying we're good/great at player development now. I'm looking for someone to show me how we're good/great (at the NHL level) at developing players.

you ask for evidence. But what I don't understand is evidence of what? So I'm asking questions. Your answers have proven to be a good chase, but I don't feel any closer to the end.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Rename thread, please.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

With Jenner winning 10 out of 15 draws last night, I think he may be making a case to stick at center for the time being with the lack of improvement in the face-off circle by both Wennberg and Karlsson. Once we're healthy (get Dubi and Jones back), I would like to see this:

Saad-Wennberg-Foligno
Karlsson-Jenner-Atkinson
Calvert-Dubinsky-Anderson
Hartnell-Sedlak-Gagner

Werenski-Jones
Murray-Johnson
Nutivaara-Savard

 

[The Jones Zone]

Stab at the lines when when Calvert returns....doubt I'm alone wanting to see 43-25-34 stay together if they even come close to playing like they did last night

Saad-Wennberg-Foligno
Atkinson-Dubinsky-Calvert
Hartnell-Karlsson-Anderson
Jenner-Sedlak-Gagner

Maybe a line shake up will get Jenner going
I think Calvert would excel with Dubi and Cam

 

[The Jones Zone]

Here is my new wish for the half way mark of the season

Saad-Wennberg-Atkinson
Folingo-Dubinsky-Anderson
Hartnell-Karlsson-Calvert
Jenner-Sedlak-Gagner

Werenski-Jones
Savard-Johnson
Nutivaara-Murray

Bobrovsky
Forsberg----Jarmo will have to make a trade or give Korpi a shot if Forsberg doesn't play better.

Healthy scratch
-Prout
-rotate Bork, Milano, and Hannikainen as our backup forward....playing Prout at forward was a disaster last night. That line was non-existent, and it puts more pressure/minutes on the 3 other lines


Feel free to flame away

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Here is my new wish for the half way mark of the season

Saad-Wennberg-Atkinson
Folingo-Dubinsky-Anderson
Hartnell-Karlsson-Calvert
Jenner-Sedlak-Gagner

Werenski-Jones
Savard-Johnson
Nutivaara-Murray

Bobrovsky
Forsberg----Jarmo will have to make a trade or give Korpi a shot if Forsberg doesn't play better.

Healthy scratch
-Prout
-rotate Bork, Milano, and Hannikainen as our backup forward....playing Prout at forward was a disaster last night. That line was non-existent, and it puts more pressure/minutes on the 3 other lines


Feel free to flame away

Saad-Wennberg-Atkinson looked pretty good last night once Torts put this trio together.

Foligno and Dubinsky have always played well together - just look back to our 15-1-1 run to end the '14-15 season, it was Anismov-Dubinsky-Foligno driving much of the play.

I'd like to keep Hartnell and Gagner together, it seems like they feed off each other very well.

 

[major major]

I don't see the rationale to change all of the forward lines.

 

[Forepar]

Glad they don't play until Friday... with the Streak, the holidays, the end of the Streak, etc...there has NOT been much practice time.

Not to say practice cures all, but anecdotally, it seems every time they've had a chance to practice, they've come back with a better all-around game.

And the other thing about practice is that they need some of that IF they are going to make any significant line changes. Last year 12 forwards were interchangeable in Torts' blender. Not that it was good hockey to watch and the results may have suffered some, but they learned Torts' system by routinely having to play with other players . This year, especially thru the Streak and with limited injuries (knock on wood) they have played on the same lines night-in night-out. Instinct has taken over for the system - which is good imo (and in Torts' mind too in the long run). They haven't mixed and matched lines in any large measure since training camp - they need some practice ice time on a different line, if line changes are the direction they are going.

And if there are not going to be line changes, practice can't hurt. Neither can a non-Prout forward.
And I'm not sure what to think about Jenner - he's the only line change I would have in mind, but still reluctant to mess with the other 3 lines. Prout made the Wild Bill and Sedlak lines less effective/ineffective, not just by his presence, but then by having double-shift other players to fill his spot when it became apparent he was of no help. It seemed those 2 lines also had less TOI as a result as well (or was that because 4 PP went the distance?).

 

[The Jones Zone]

Calvert out Saturday night....Hannikainen in "Coaches decision"

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Calvert out Saturday night....

Well Saturday night is in the mind always but let's play first.