News Article: Lidstrom says Lemieux was best player he played against

[Frk It]

Thought this would be fun to talk about, since there is not much else going on.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=775678&navid=nhl:topheads

Click to read more...

 

[newfy]

By the time Lidstrom came into the league Gretzky had kinda slowed down I guess and I can see how Lemieux for a dman one on one would be tougher to play against than Gretzky with his size and reach but...
Gretzky is better

 

[Bench]

Well, that makes sense. He was the ultimate combination of skill and size. Gretzky might beat you as often, but you have to think Lemieux was the more difficult player to defend physically, which Lidstrom alluded to by commenting on Lemieux's reach.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Makes sense, no? Best player to play during Lidstrom's career. Gretzky was well past his prime by the time Nick got going.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Makes sense, no? Best player to play during Lidstrom's career. Gretzky was well past his prime by the time Nick got going.

Lidstrom's game was also tailor made to stop Gretzky. Honestly if ever there was a guy that could handle even prime Gretzky it was Lidstrom. No matter how long you hold onto the puck and whatever else he was letter perfect defensively as well. Gretzky was still a tremendous scorer in the mid 90's and he had nightmares when playing against the Fedorov and Lidstrom duo in terms of checking him.

I have said over the years I thought Forsberg was the one player that could actually get the best of him when Lidstrom was still playing well. Mario is an upgraded version, a physically dominating forward with the skills to take advantage one he gets you on his back or fractionally out of position. You had to get him off-balance first though or attack his partner so well he was forced to cover.

Still it does not surprise me he went with Lemieux, he played the exact game that could even momentarily give Lidstrom problems, it didn't happen often but you did see it every once in a while. Smart shifty players always struggled, Patrick Kane talks about it all the time when he is interviewed that Lidstrom was impossible to play his game against. You could pull every trick and he would have the answer.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Not too surprising, although I thought Forsberg might get a mention. I think it would be interesting to hear some players who aren’t all time greats though. Like who are some players who weren’t all stars who gave Lidstrom fits. Although its entirely possible there weren't any

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Lemieux, at his peak, was the best player in the history of the sport

 

[RabidBadger]

I saw Super Mario play in 2000, I think; even after hodgkins and chronic back problems he still looked like a dad playing in the back yards against kids.

 

[InjuredChoker]

lemieux was magical. kind of like watching datsyuk's best shifts but every shift.

but yeah, prime gretzky was the best and lids never played against that guy.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Claude?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Claude?

hah, that's what i originally thought when i read the title yesterday on twitter. ''WTF??!!''

 

[Actual Thought*]

Mario was a whiner. Whenever I hear his name I just think of him crying about "Marginal Players" being allowed to play defence against him. Great talent but he is a big baby.

 

[jkutswings]

Mario was a whiner. Whenever I hear his name I just think of him crying about "Marginal Players" being allowed to play defence against him. Great talent but he is a big baby.

As opposed to all the yapping and whining that players like Chelios or Maltby or Avery did?

Mario certainly wasn't a saint, but the only parameter relevant to the topic is his talent, which was generational.

 

[Actual Thought*]

As opposed to all the yapping and whining that players like Chelios or Maltby or Avery did?

Mario certainly wasn't a saint, but the only parameter relevant to the topic is his talent, which was generational.

I am not referring to yapping on the ice. I am referring to his whining in the media about "Marginal players being allowed to play defence so the "good" players couldn't do what they were supposed to do". He was instrumental in getting rule changes to favor his golden boy Crosby. If concussions are a problem now a big part of the blame lands on Mario. Great talent without a doubt but he was a whiner as a player and ended up changing the game for the worse IMO. Personally, I don't like him.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I am not referring to yapping on the ice. I am referring to his whining in the media about "Marginal players being allowed to play defence so the "good" players couldn't do what they were supposed to do". He was instrumental in getting rule changes to favor his golden boy Crosby. If concussions are a problem now a big part of the blame lands on Mario. Great talent without a doubt but he was a whiner as a player and ended up changing the game for the worse IMO. Personally, I don't like him.

wut?

 

[jkutswings]

If that's how you view him, then so be it, but with that perspective, I wouldn't blame fans of other teams to view Chelios as a malcontent, "whining" for the NHLPA, or Shanahan as a "yes man" for the owners.

Lots of talented players are vocal about certain things. Some are more sympathetic issues than others, but it shouldn't have any weight in the debate about who is hardest to defend on the ice.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

I saw Super Mario play in 2000, I think; even after hodgkins and chronic back problems he still looked like a dad playing in the back yards against kids.

That was the thing, he could barely skate by then, and yet he could still rack up 3 point nights. Stand off him and he could just bide his time and pick you off, try and pressure him and he'd make you look stupid and use the space you just vacated.

92-93 was the first season I watched the NHL, my abiding memory is of him coming back from cancer and watching him undressing goalies every night on the highlights.

 

[Actual Thought*]

If that's how you view him, then so be it, but with that perspective, I wouldn't blame fans of other teams to view Chelios as a malcontent, "whining" for the NHLPA, or Shanahan as a "yes man" for the owners.

Lots of talented players are vocal about certain things. Some are more sympathetic issues than others, but it shouldn't have any weight in the debate about who is hardest to defend on the ice.

This is true. I didn't really expect anyone to disagree given the things that he has said and done. Lidstrom said he was the hardest to play against. No surprise there.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Cause Lemiuex is the 3rd best hockey player in the world

I rank Howe above him

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Cause Lemiuex is the 3rd best hockey player in the world

I rank Howe above him

Bobby Orr?????

 

[Actual Thought*]

Bobby Orr?????

Nick Lidstrom? Patrick Roy?

 

[WingsInRed]

Off topic but it sounds like Lidstrom's being groomed for a management position.

Lidstrom also discussed a venture he is undertaking with retired Swedish tennis star Stefan Edberg. They are involved with Case, an asset-management company. Edberg is the majority stockholder.

"I want to learn more about the financial world, and to act as a co-partner as well as an ambassador for the company," Lidstrom said. "It's a whole new world to me. I know a little about this world, but there's still a lot to learn. I really feel like a rookie."

 

[InjuredChoker]

Nick Lidstrom? Patrick Roy?

lidström is in conversation for top 10, not top 3.

 

[Bench]

lidström is in conversation for top 10, not top 3.

Depends how you frame the discussion. Best to ever play, or best relative to peers, etc. That's why these discussions are so tedious at times since everybody has their own benchmarks for what takes priority.

Gretzky is the undisputed #1 because of sheer volume of records, after that it gets muddy, and even then as we see in this thread you have Mario getting votes as the best so maybe it's not that undisputed.

 

[snailderby]

1. Good point from Bench.

2. In the last comprehensive lists compiled by the "History of Hockey" board, Lidstrom was ranked the 5th best D-man of all time and the 17th best player of all time. See http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1487867. There are, of course, a few discrepancies between the order of defensemen in the two lists, but both lists have Orr and Harvey as #1 and #2, then either Shore or Bourque as #3 and #4, then Lidstrom/Kelly/Potvin as #5/#6/#7, not necessarily in that order.

3. To keep things within some semblance of relevance to the original topic (Lemieux), the same top 70 list had Lemieux as the 4th best player of all time, behind Gretzky, Orr, and Howe. Given that Lidstrom didn't play against Orr or Howe, I don't think it's terribly surprising that he said Lemieux was the best player he'd ever played against.